debate :D:D

**SilverTest** · 01-30-2009, 08:44 AM

ok guys , i am gonna start a debate here :

what is exactly the thing that makes recovery harder after cycles?

is it testicular desensitization ? is it the inability of the body to produce other hormones ?

what is the process that is very critical in recovery , which one takes more time to recover , the testicles or the hypothalamus or the pituitary etc .... etc...

WHY do we take time to recover? why dont the body just begins its hormone production immediatly ??

as far as i'm concerned , i dont think the body knows the difference between 10 weeks or 10 years , the body do not sense "time" , people who think longer cycles take longer to recover from , please state the reasons etc ...

good day

**chuckt12345** · 01-30-2009, 08:50 AM

body knows no time. so train 10 wks should be as good as training 10yrs
and drinkin 10 wks or 10yrs makes the samd dif on your liver?

**Mammon** · 01-30-2009, 10:59 AM

there are several things that can make recovery harder.. in decas case,well id guess deca , tren , THG and anadrol as well id say its affinity for the progesterone receptor, which gives it progestin like effects on the body. that would include a higher rate of negative feedback inhibition on test production.

**Lift Chief** · 01-30-2009, 11:46 AM

The slowest step in the recovery process is at the testicular level... for the hypothal / pituitary to start working again doesn't take that long. But for testicular tissue to begin fully functioning takes a long time. Same principle as if you stopped lifting for 12 weeks and then started again.... the weakest link would be at the level of muscle tissue as it has to slowly return to normal function.

**SilverTest** · 01-30-2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

body knows no time. so train 10 wks should be as good as training 10yrs
and drinkin 10 wks or 10yrs makes the samd dif on your liver?

yes chuck ok but the changes that you mentioned are not the same as a negative feedback on a gland. the liver is actually DAMAGED as a tissue , and muscle change and increase in size etc...

its a different mechanism from endocrine glands IMO dont you think?right?

**SilverTest** · 01-30-2009, 12:31 PM

and chuck , if what you'r saying is correct , why does that happen ? what is the thing that increase recovery time the longer you are "on"?

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-30-2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by SilverTest

and chuck , if what you'r saying is correct , why does that happen ? what is the thing that increase recovery time the longer you are "on"?

The longer your HPTA is shut down, the longer it will take to start up.

Plain and simple, the body is not a switch it cannot just bump up to its regular hormone levels in a couple of days. Instead it initiates the process and depending on how long you are "on" it will take the body longer to reach the pre-cycle levels.

You basically take certain hormonal functions away from the body when doing AAS (mainly your giving your body test instead of the other way around), so the body doesn't have to do that work, when you stop the body goes into shock because it expected you to be doing the work (injecting test) forever, so it starts up its own production in reaction and depending on how long you are on it will take the body longer to get everything together.

**chuckt12345** · 01-30-2009, 01:10 PM

like immortal says,, its not a light switch. im no brain surgeon but it seems if your hpta is shut down for 10 yrs your brain is no longer sending signals to use that area and new pathways are formed and forgotten. I guess you could compare it like this (hypothetically you dont speak for 10 yrs, and say if you alll of a sudden started to speak again i would think it would take a long time to get back to speaking like you once did)

**seriousmass** · 01-30-2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

The longer your HPTA is shut down, the longer it will take to start up.

Plain and simple, the body is not a switch it cannot just bump up to its regular hormone levels in a couple of days. Instead it initiates the process and depending on how long you are "on" it will take the body longer to reach the pre-cycle levels.

You basically take certain hormonal functions away from the body when doing AAS (mainly your giving your body test instead of the other way around), so the body doesn't have to do that work, when you stop the body goes into shock because it expected you to be doing the work (injecting test) forever, so it starts up its own production in reaction and depending on how long you are on it will take the body longer to get everything together.

Great answer Immortal. Very concise and clear.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-30-2009, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Immortal Soldier

The longer your HPTA is shut down, the longer it will take to start up.

Plain and simple, the body is not a switch it cannot just bump up to its regular hormone levels in a couple of days. Instead it initiates the process and depending on how long you are "on" it will take the body longer to reach the pre-cycle levels.

You basically take certain hormonal functions away from the body when doing AAS (mainly your giving your body test instead of the other way around), so the body doesn't have to do that work, when you stop the body goes into shock because it expected you to be doing the work (injecting test) forever, so it starts up its own production in reaction and depending on how long you are on it will take the body longer to get everything together.

hmmm then i wonder why my bloodwork from 3weeks post pct from cycles years ago that were only 8 weeks long (pretty common then) looks almost identical (lipid profiles are more f'd up thats it) to my 20 week, harder core cycles i ran in later years ??? It's an interesting topic....

**UncleD** · 01-30-2009, 05:33 PM

well the testes hybornate when your "on" so that means there sleeping still getting blood flow and nutreints stil alive just shrunk down waiting to be used, your body isnt ever going to totaly destroy for testes just becase they arnt needed at the time, your body saves them for the time they are needed then BAM a light switch is turned on the signals are sent leylig cells wake up, lh starts up folical goes on ect ect all that stuff reactivates and tissues start to grow and the body goes into emerncy mode because NOW there is NO TEST!! and those balls that are hybornating are now becoming active..but yes it does take time.. but the body didnt know you was on for "10" years or 10 weeks it just knows to bide its time and cellular regeneration of those cells do take time but will restore hcg , clomid and nolva are only "aids" to this processes and cut down the time.. somtimes it can take up to 2 years to be fully normal and as little as 8-12 weeks for some..but with "aids" or not the body WILL RECOVER TO A POINT..
NOW if your 25 and juice till your 35 then you WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME LEVELS WHEN YOU RECOVER BECAUSE IT WILL PROBLLY TAKE 2 YEARS TO FULLY RECOVER then your 37 and levels will be low anyway so its all relative theres all diff senarios im not gona cover..

**Immortal Soldier** · 01-30-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

hmmm then i wonder why my bloodwork from 3weeks post pct from cycles years ago that were only 8 weeks long (pretty common then) looks almost identical (lipid profiles are more f'd up thats it) to my 20 week, harder core cycles i ran in later years ??? It's an interesting topic....

Each person is different, some people recover faster than others.

But I can tell you one thing, most likely (and I hope in your sake) that the pct you used in your 20 week cycle was alot stronger than the one used in your 8 week PCT.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-30-2009, 07:28 PM

^^^ pretty damn similar in fact - now ive modified it somewhat - but in those examples it was almost spot on the same. Why would you hope it was stronger if my blood work showed equal hpta recovery? That makes no sense....
To each his own...... Its important to find out on an individual basis what works .... ive always been cautious ,not with dosages imo, but with estrogen management and pct (even when it was just clomid first few cycles) and i started getting blood work about 3 years into juicing and have continued to this day - one of the best things ive done.... those #'s dont lie ...
personally i think 2 things re this topic -
1- shut down is shut down ....i dunno about this "shut down hard" nonsense....
2- Ive had no more trouble recovering after 20 week cycles than after 8 week cycles...
for whatever its worth ....been 15 years....

**Mammon** · 01-30-2009, 07:41 PM

i pretty much run the same pct after cycles as well.. 12 weeks or 16/18 weeks..
100mg clomid 20mg nolvadex ed for 30 days.. on the longer cycles i may extend it for a week..
i run adex through all my cycles and 3/4 the time right on through pct..
believe the fact i use HCG through the cycles helps alot as well.

**SilverTest** · 01-31-2009, 12:16 AM

great posts guys lets keep this conversation going .

i personally notice that if i use high dosages and cause too much estrogen , i have a harder time recovering i dont know why really , but i recovered a hell of a lot faster with low dosages and simple cycles.

**SilverTest** · 01-31-2009, 12:20 AM

could it be that activating estrogenic receptors too much and things still lingering after you finish your cycle etc etc ...

deca shuts me down for months.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-31-2009, 12:26 AM

^^ id see post #3 ...that explains it pretty well imo ....

**SilverTest** · 01-31-2009, 12:43 AM

yup , progestagenic activity .

recovery from test at a low dose solo of about 300-500 mg per week was always the best cycle for me , no sides , huge gains and a "sweet recovery" ( we all know it aint pretty lol)

how much recovery time do you people need to fully recover ?

**SilverTest** · 01-31-2009, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by UncleD

well the testes hybornate when your "on" so that means there sleeping still getting blood flow and nutreints stil alive just shrunk down waiting to be used, your body isnt ever going to totaly destroy for testes just becase they arnt needed at the time, your body saves them for the time they are needed then BAM a light switch is turned on the signals are sent leylig cells wake up, lh starts up folical goes on ect ect all that stuff reactivates and tissues start to grow and the body goes into emerncy mode because NOW there is NO TEST!! and those balls that are hybornating are now becoming active..but yes it does take time.. but the body didnt know you was on for "10" years or 10 weeks it just knows to bide its time and cellular regeneration of those cells do take time but will restore hcg , clomid and nolva are only "aids" to this processes and cut down the time.. somtimes it can take up to 2 years to be fully normal and as little as 8-12 weeks for some..but with "aids" or not the body WILL RECOVER TO A POINT..
NOW if your 25 and juice till your 35 then you WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME LEVELS WHEN YOU RECOVER BECAUSE IT WILL PROBLLY TAKE 2 YEARS TO FULLY RECOVER then your 37 and levels will be low anyway so its all relative theres all diff senarios im not gona cover..

awsum post bro , pretty much what i thought , sometimes people wonder why their test levels got lower after years of AAS use , even intelligent use and they blame it on the poor steroids , declining test is inevitable .

my take on this is , life is too short to regret anything really , i will never regret using steroids because they have improved my life a lot and they will obviously continu to do so until i hit the grave