sus and test e

**dec11** · 02-04-2009, 04:05 PM

i am starting 3rd cycle soon, was thinking of doing test e 250mg per week and sus 250mg per week, one say on a monday and the otha on a thurs, will kick off with 35mg dbol for 4 weeks.would sus and test e a good idea taken in that way? will be on injectables for 12-15weeks, i weight 16st and have 13years powerlifting experience. thanks

**redz** · 02-04-2009, 04:07 PM

Why run 2 different tests together?

**dec11** · 02-04-2009, 04:09 PM

thought id get benefit of the blend in sus and have a good kick of test e, not the way to go then? waste? thanks

***T-MOS*** · 02-04-2009, 04:12 PM

I never understood the need for using so many different esters?? Single ester test is all I've ever needed whether it be long ester or short, one ester is all I need.

So basically you want to take Test with 6 different esters and release times. Why?

**redz** · 02-04-2009, 04:13 PM

Just run something like Test E at 500mg/week split into 2 injections with the dbol for the first 4 weeks to kickstart. Then PCT 2 weeks after alst test E shot. Clomid/Nolva

***T-MOS*** · 02-04-2009, 04:15 PM

I'm not saying Sust is bad, but it's original intent was for low dose TRT where they gave one shot every two weeks, so different release times worked to keep some test still in blood by week two.

You can use it and mix with test e, but I don't see any positive benifits of it. Anyone know of any, please chime in

**dec11** · 02-04-2009, 04:17 PM

thanks guys, prob stick to jus the test e at 500mg then. will test e give better results than sus, ive used sus twice now and to be honest it didnt totally rock my world.

**redz** · 02-04-2009, 04:19 PM

You may want to post up your diet if you had less than great results before. Often times people dont relize there is a problem there.

**dec11** · 02-04-2009, 04:25 PM

diet is sorted, ive been a personal trainer for 7 years and have competed internationally in powerlifting for alot longer so im clued up on diet, aim at 4000cals a day when on gear. thanks

***T-MOS*** · 02-04-2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by redz

You may want to post up your diet if you had less than great results before. Often times people dont relize there is a problem there.

^^^agreed. Test is test. It should work. But it's not a magic pill. All test does (basically) is allows your body to process more protein than it normally can. Therefore you need to make sure your protein intake and diet is utilizing the steroids abilities. Not just lifting heavier

**johnnybigguns** · 02-04-2009, 04:52 PM

Definitely stick with just the test e. Sust needs to be shot EOD to have stable levels. All the different esters in it cause unstable level and more sides. There was some good threads about it somewhere if you search.

**Diamonds08** · 02-04-2009, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by redz

Just run something like Test E at 500mg/week split into 2 injections with the dbol for the first 4 weeks to kickstart. Then PCT 2 weeks after alst test E shot. Clomid/Nolva

Couldn't further off here bud. Clomid/Nolva? Makes absolutely no sense. Needs to be Nola/Arimidex

**dec11** · 02-05-2009, 10:53 AM

i use hcg and clomid for pct, neva had any probs. used nolva during las cycle when nips got a bit sensitive. good approach? cheers appreciate the advice

**Big** · 02-05-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Diamonds08

Couldn't further off here bud. Clomid/Nolva? Makes absolutely no sense. Needs to be Nola/Arimidex

clomid/nolva pct makes no sense?

**Big** · 02-05-2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by declan11

i use hcg and clomid for pct, neva had any probs. used nolva during las cycle when nips got a bit sensitive. good approach? cheers appreciate the advice

I like clomid/nolva/aromasin for pct, arimidex on cycle, and if needed hcg during the last 2/3 of the cycle.

**dec11** · 02-05-2009, 11:13 AM

cheers big, had been taking hcg 2.5 wks after last test inject, 3000 iu every 5th day for 15 days and then starting clomid immediately, no libdo loss and kept alot of gains

**Big** · 02-05-2009, 11:18 AM

good deal, that will work. with pct there are general guidelines, but many protocols that work.

**Diamonds08** · 02-05-2009, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Big

clomid/nolva pct makes no sense?

Why would you run 2 SERM's together in PCT? Makes no sense. They do the same thing.

**Big** · 02-05-2009, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Diamonds08

Why would you run 2 SERM's together in PCT? Makes no sense. They do the same thing.

lmfao, ok buddy, you're the expert.

**Big** · 02-05-2009, 10:50 PM

off topic for a moment guys, bear with me:

selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

credit: Pheedno

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

credit: Llewellyn

**Diamonds08** · 02-06-2009, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Big

off topic for a moment guys, bear with me:

selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

credit: Pheedno

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

credit: Llewellyn

Nice to see you can copy and paste. Also, nice to see you believe everything you read posted on AR. Hey pot, this is kettle...... Douche

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-06-2009, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Diamonds08

Nice to see you can copy and paste. Also, nice to see you believe everything you read posted on AR. Hey pot, this is kettle...... Douche

^^^ wow arent you the j*ckass ......*L*

**Big** · 02-06-2009, 08:05 PM

Sorry we can't all be n00bs that give really bad advice.

**Diamonds08** · 02-06-2009, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ wow arent you the j*ckass ......*L*

Yeah, I'm a jackass because I make fun of a mod who just regurgitates info that he posted from a write up someone else did? Ok......lol

**Diamonds08** · 02-06-2009, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Big

Sorry we can't all be n00bs that give really bad advice.

How is that bad advice? I have never seen anyone recommend Nolva & Clomid together for PCT. And for every article you cut and paste I can show you 2 that says that complete opposite. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I don't know a bunch more than you. And just cause you are a vet, doesn't prove you know jack sh*t.

**Big** · 02-06-2009, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Diamonds08

How is that bad advice? I have never seen anyone recommend Nolva & Clomid for PCT. And for every article you cut and paste I can show you 2 that says that compete opposite. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I don't know a bunch more than you. And just cause you are a vet, doesn't prove you know jack sh*t.

the fact that you've never seen anyone recommend a clomid/nolva pct shows your lack of experience. and I know something you don't, I'll still be here when you're gone.

**Diamonds08** · 02-06-2009, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Big

the fact that you've never seen anyone recommend a clomid/nolva pct shows your lack of experience. and I know something you don't, I'll still be here when you're gone.

Not clomid/nolva without some sort of AI. I just don't agree with any of your SERM or AI approach. Just my opinion and as you said earlier "there are many protocols that work".

To the OP, you see any increase is acne when you incorporate HCG ?

***T-MOS*** · 02-06-2009, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by big

the fact that you've never seen anyone recommend a clomid/nolva pct shows your lack of experience. And i know something you don't, i'll still be here when you're gone.

owned!!!

***RAGE*** · 02-06-2009, 08:32 PM

This has been happening everyday??? spring break...i remember....lol

**Big** · 02-06-2009, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Diamonds08

Not clomid/nolva without some sort of AI. I just don't agree with any of your SERM or AI approach. Just my opinion and as you said earlier "there are many protocols that work".

To the OP, you see any increase is acne when you incorporate HCG?

scroll up to post 15. I didn't advocate clomid/nolva without an ai, I recommended clomid/nolva/aromasin .

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-06-2009, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Diamonds08

Yeah, I'm a jackass because I make fun of a mod who just regurgitates info that he posted from a write up someone else did? Ok......lol

ok - so heres some input from someone with 15 years of firsthand experience - cloimd and nolva together as part of a pct protocol works very well. For years i used jusdt the 2 - also for several years now i did clomid / nolva / prov - now i do clomid / nolva / aromasin . Do some research on male fertility studies and see how clomid is more effective than nolva re: that topic .....the benefit should become obvious ...and you are a j*ckass because of your insult ....not your opinion.....

***Admin*** · 02-07-2009, 04:24 AM

And here is the input from the admin...

Goodbye... to someone who should have read the rules before posting... have a good night!

(This is not goodbye because of your advice but for your attitude towards members here and your multible accounts PEWNTANG ~ diamonds09)

*admin*