First Cycle

[LateStarter]

Okay so here are my stats

6'1
205
15% BF
28

I have only been lifting for 7 months(dont stop and say stay away please continue reading) 5 days a week. I know you should not cycle until your have more xp under under your belt. However I am just not making any gains. I eat very clean with a cheat day once every 2 weeks or so.

So I have been thinking about this cycle.

test-e 500mg a week split up to two doeses 250mg twice a week to keep levels steady and reduce sides for 12 weeks

dianabol 20mgs every day for the first 4 weeks to kickstart the cycle

liquidex or nolvadex for the entire cycle including pct

colmid and igf-1 for pct

either way so I know i could tear a tendon getting to big to fast with not much time lifting. I am extremely dedicated to lifting, though I did not start until just recently. But if I lift smart and be safe about it would it still be stupid to cycle this soon? I just am getting discouraged with the lack of gains they almost dont exist.

Thank you for reading and possibly answering if you made it this far

[T-MOS]

Welcome

when you say you eat clean, what does a typical days food intake look like?
how many meals, time,

its a decent first cycle for someone who is ready for it !!

[Immortal Soldier]

Okay so here are my stats

6'1
205
15% BF
28

I have only been lifting for 7 months(dont stop and say stay away please continue reading) 5 days a week. I know you should not cycle until your have more xp under under your belt. However I am just not making any gains. I eat very clean with a cheat day once every 2 weeks or so.

So I have been thinking about this cycle.

test-e 500mg a week split up to two doeses 250mg twice a week to keep levels steady and reduce sides for 12 weeks

dianabol 20mgs every day for the first 4 weeks to kickstart the cycle

liquidex or nolvadex for the entire cycle including pct

colmid and igf-1 for pct

either way so I know i could tear a tendon getting to big to fast with not much time lifting. I am extremely dedicated to lifting, though I did not start until just recently. But if I lift smart and be safe about it would it still be stupid to cycle this soon? I just am getting discouraged with the lack of gains they almost dont exist.

Thank you for reading and possibly answering if you made it this far

What is the point of IGF-1?

You're are not ready dude, plain and simple.

Just because you don't gain it means your body's plateau change your workout or diet or both, you aren't going to become a beast in a year or two, bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint.

Steroids aren't the answer, especially for a starter.

I mean one of the reasons they tell you to wait is so you have more experience and the other more IMPORTANT reason is so you have a solid base of muscle that you gained NATURALLY that way you have both some muscle to grow off of and two your closer to your genetic limit.

[LateStarter]

Welcome

when you say you eat clean, what does a typical days food intake look like?
how many meals, time,

its a decent first cycle for someone who is ready for it !!

7:30 8 egg whites cup of oats
10:00 grapefruit + whey
1:00 8oz chicken + broccoli
4:00 8oz fat free yogurt + whey
6:00 workout
8:00 why+dextrose
9:00 orange roughy + oliveoil

[T-MOS]

7:30 8 egg whites cup of oats
10:00 grapefruit + whey
1:00 8oz chicken + broccoli
4:00 8oz fat free yogurt + whey
6:00 workout
8:00 why+dextrose
9:00 orange roughy + oliveoil

I see too much whey, and not enough solid food !! I only see 3 meals with solid proteins, should be more like 5 or 6 and the whey should be used post workout is fine

that may help you grow

[LateStarter]

What is the point of IGF-1?

You're are not ready dude, plain and simple.

Just because you don't gain it means your body's plateau change your workout or diet or both, you aren't going to become a beast in a year or two, bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint.

Steroids aren't the answer, especially for a starter.

I mean one of the reasons they tell you to wait is so you have more experience and the other more IMPORTANT reason is so you have a solid base of muscle that you gained NATURALLY that way you have both some muscle to grow off of and two your closer to your genetic limit.

I have adjusted workouts and diets many times. Anyways When I was in the army I was doing PT every day so I have that xp also from a few years ago. So your telling me that lifting for 6 months and not being ablt to increase weight on anything is not a genetic limit?

[LateStarter]

I see too much whey, and not enough solid food !! I only see 3 meals with solid proteins, should be more like 5 or 6 and the whey should be used post workout is fine

that may help you grow

I have an extreme amount of trouble being able to eat that much solid food the reason for the whey is because I cant eat any more solid food. it is far from uncommon for me to skip the last meal.

[seriousmass]

7:30 8 egg whites cup of oats
10:00 grapefruit + whey
1:00 8oz chicken + broccoli
4:00 8oz fat free yogurt + whey
6:00 workout
8:00 why+dextrose
9:00 orange roughy + oliveoil

Well that's why you aren't making gains.

You're currently eating less then my 5 year old sister.

1.) you need to cut down on the whey protein. It should only be taken twice a day. You should be getting protein from natural foods

2.) you aren't eating enough at all. - you're probably getting like.. 1000 calories from that diet. That'd be ideal for an anorexic woman.. but in the real world.. you aren't going to EVER make gains off that. Your body is just under-fueled, plain and simple.

Here you should check out these forums instead:

Diet
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...
UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...
Appetite For Construction
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/calories/calories.html

good luck.

don't cycle..

[LateStarter]

Well that's why you aren't making gains.

You're currently eating less then my 5 year old sister.

1.) you need to cut down on the whey protein. It should only be taken twice a day. You should be getting protein from natural foods

2.) you aren't eating enough at all. - you're probably getting like.. 1000 calories from that diet. That'd be ideal for an anorexic woman.. but in the real world.. you aren't going to EVER make gains off that. Your body is just under-fueled, plain and simple.

Here you should check out these forums instead:

Diet
UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...
UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...
Appetite For Construction
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/calories/calories.html

good luck.

don't cycle..

Its closer to 3000 cals also right now im cutting not bulking so thats why its low when im bulking I add ON serious mass to the morning.

[seriousmass]

Its closer to 3000 cals also right now im cutting not bulking so thats why its low when im bulking I add ON serious mass to the morning.

I'm sorry. I don't know what you're talking about. That diet is no where near 3000 calories. fat-free yogurt?? lol. come on man, figure out the macro's yourself. If that's a 3000 calorie diet, I must be taking in like 15, 0000 each day.

Also, I don't have a clue why you'd be cutting when you're 205 @ 6'1. That's not big.

Unless it's all fat and not muscle, since you just started working out...

[LateStarter]

I'm sorry. I don't know what you're talking about. That diet is no where near 3000 calories. fat-free yogurt?? lol. come on man, figure out the macro's yourself. If that's a 3000 calorie diet, I must be taking in like 15, 0000 each day.

Also, I don't have a clue why you'd be cutting when you're 205 @ 6'1. That's not big.

Unless it's all fat and not muscle, since you just started working out...

hey whatever dude. 15% trying to get below 10%. fitday says 2700 cals 50/30/20

breakfast = 700
snack = 340 (120 a scoop x 2 scoops plus 100 for gfruit)
lunch = 700 (forgot to mention I make this a salad with egg whites on top)
snack = 400 cals for yogurt+2 scoop whey yogurt maybe fat free but not carb free
PWO shake = 500 (3 scoops whey + dextrose)
dinner = 200

wow so umm guess your right you dont know what your talking about huh?

[LateStarter]

now this is getting off topic I am just trying to see what the worst can happen by doing a cycle this early.

Also one more thing got my blood work done last week test is below avg for my age however doc wont put me on TRT and all that is is a watered down cycle anyways.

[ottomaddox]

8 egg whites and a cup of oatmeal is not 700 calories.

[seriousmass]

hey whatever dude. 15% trying to get below 10%. fitday says 2700 cals 50/30/20

breakfast = 700
snack = 340 (120 a scoop x 2 scoops plus 100 for gfruit)
lunch = 700 (forgot to mention I make this a salad with egg whites on top)
snack = 400 cals for yogurt+2 scoop whey yogurt maybe fat free but not carb free
PWO shake = 500 (3 scoops whey + dextrose)
dinner = 200

wow so umm guess your right you dont know what your talking about huh?

You're a little lying piece of crap.

lol. you made up those macros. 700 calories from 8 egg whites? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. (enough said).

The way you use shakes to supplement natural protein is terrible as well. you get 8oz of chicken and 8 egg whites a day, and that's all your natural protein..

ridiculous.

[LateStarter]

loving how this has gotten so off topic and is me defending my diet now jeez

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-egg-white-i1172

376 cals for eggs

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/b...cereals/1597/2

307 for oatmeal

683 cals plus about 30 cals in brown sugar


can we move on now?

[seriousmass]

8 egg whites and a cup of oatmeal is not 700 calories.

ohh sorry for repeating this exact example lol. I didn't even see it. Glad someone else noticed the inconsistencies as well though.

[T-MOS]

loving how this has gotten so off topic and is me defending my diet now jeez

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-egg-white-i1172

376 cals for eggs

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/b...cereals/1597/2

307 for oatmeal

683 cals plus about 30 cals in brown sugar


can we move on now?

Sure we can move on, can you agree that your diet is what is holding you back from making gains? and that steroid use with a terrible diet will do more harm than good?

if we can agree to that, then we can move on , and work on your diet to begin with

[seriousmass]

can we move on now?

Answer: at your age it would be fine. You're old enough that you aren't producing as much test naturally now. Nevertheless, until you understand diet / training you will never be able to keep your gains. You're talking about putting your body through a hormonal hailstorm... why don't you just prepare well, so that you don't mess yourself up for life??

I don't know what else to tell you...

good luck with the cycle.

[jimmyinkedup]

I think its prudent to optimize diet and training before cycling without a doubt. One thing is certain if you continue with that diet on cycle - your gains would be, imo ,disappointing. As far as the cycle - its a decent first cycle ....i could nit pick a bit and say id like dball at 30mg/day first 4 weeks ...overall as long as pct timing is on point cycle and pct dont look too bad...

[Phate]

hey whatever dude. 15% trying to get below 10%. fitday says 2700 cals 50/30/20

breakfast = 700
snack = 340 (120 a scoop x 2 scoops plus 100 for gfruit)
lunch = 700 (forgot to mention I make this a salad with egg whites on top)
snack = 400 cals for yogurt+2 scoop whey yogurt maybe fat free but not carb free
PWO shake = 500 (3 scoops whey + dextrose)
dinner = 200

wow so umm guess your right you dont know what your talking about huh?

You're a little lying piece of crap.

lol. you made up those macros. 700 calories from 8 egg whites? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. (enough said).

The way you use shakes to supplement natural protein is terrible as well. you get 8oz of chicken and 8 egg whites a day, and that's all your natural protein..

ridiculous.

time to chill guys

[Phate]

loving how this has gotten so off topic and is me defending my diet now jeez

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-egg-white-i1172

376 cals for eggs

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/b...cereals/1597/2
this is for 100g of egg whites, not 1 egg white, a single egg white is around 4g of protein
307 for oatmeal

683 cals plus about 30 cals in brown sugar


can we move on now?

give me a sec and i'll review your diet, do you know your daily caloric expenditure off hand, if not we'll have to calculate it

[LateStarter]

ok I agree my diet suck but I honestly can not eat that much whole food its really hard for me so I use whey just to get enough protein. any recommendations on how to eat more whole food when as it is I puke once in a whole from forcing food down my throught.

I dunno if somehwo I perm screwed up metab by only eating one meal a day for like 5
+ yrs. like 500 cals a day I know very very bad. But im trying to fix all that. But serious how can I eat more food if my body just wont do it?

[Phate]

here is the nutritional info for one egg white

Calories 17 (72 kJ)
% DV 1
Total Fat 0.1g 0%
Sat. Fat 0g 0%
Cholesterol 0mg 0%
Sodium 55mg 2%
Total Carbs. 0.2g 0%
Dietary Fiber 0g 0%
Sugars 0.2g
Protein 3.6g
Calcium 2.3mg
Potassium 53.8mg

[seriousmass]

ok I agree my diet suck but I honestly can not eat that much whole food its really hard for me so I use whey just to get enough protein. any recommendations on how to eat more whole food when as it is I puke once in a whole from forcing food down my throught.

I dunno if somehwo I perm screwed up metab by only eating one meal a day for like 5
+ yrs. like 500 cals a day I know very very bad. But im trying to fix all that. But serious how can I eat more food if my body just wont do it?

train your body just like you train muscles.

start by eating every 2 - 3 hours. small meals.. then eventually up the amount you're taking in at each meal. weight gain is a slow process.

[Phate]

ok I agree my diet suck but I honestly can not eat that much whole food its really hard for me so I use whey just to get enough protein. any recommendations on how to eat more whole food when as it is I puke once in a whole from forcing food down my throught.

I dunno if somehwo I perm screwed up metab by only eating one meal a day for like 5
+ yrs. like 500 cals a day I know very very bad. But im trying to fix all that. But serious how can I eat more food if my body just wont do it?

your stomach can stretch to allow more food, and will do so if you force it to hold more food over time, that's how professional eaters can eat up to 50 hot dogs and buns in 12minutes and other ridiculous amounts of food

you just have to give your stomach time to stretch

[LateStarter]

I do eat every 2-3 hours been doing so for the last 6 months. ifs almost harder now then it was when I first started to consume the little food I do. I wonder if there are any supplments to increase appittite :P

I could easlily consume alot of cals but it would not be clean. I mean a ft long sub is around 1k calories along. thats nothing for me. its eatting clean that seems to make me so full

[Phate]

I do eat every 2-3 hours been doing so for the last 6 months. ifs almost harder now then it was when I first started to consume the little food I do. I wonder if there are any supplments to increase appittite :P

I could easlily consume alot of cals but it would not be clean. I mean a ft long sub is around 1k calories along. thats nothing for me. its eatting clean that seems to make me so full

there is actually

if you have to, try eating every 1.5-2.0 hours to give your body more time to digest the food

[Phate]

7:30 8 egg whites cup of oats
go with 10-12 egg whites and 50-60g of carbs worth of oats, no brown sugar
10:00 grapefruit + whey
how bout some sweet potato and chicken here
1:00 8oz chicken + broccoli
this is okay
4:00 8oz fat free yogurt + whey
tuna and red potatos
6:00 workout

8:00 why+dextrose
i don't like the dextrose, it's like swallowing a cup of sugar, i would eat some solid carbs instead
9:00 orange roughy + oliveoil
this is okay if you are getting enough protein from the fish

if you are trying to bulk you are gonna have to eat alot more

[jimmyinkedup]

it is true - you need to eat to grow ....no way (or should i say whey *L*) around it.....

[LateStarter]

okay while I am going to drop the whey and see what I can do about only whole food. but lets say I have my diet spot on in 2 months or so. Is it REALLY that bad for me to do a cycle with only about a yr of lifting? or as long as I lift smart should I be ok with not injuring myself?

[jimmyinkedup]

At 28 years old - with realistic expectations and aspirations ...its your choice IMO ....

[LateStarter]

if you are trying to bulk you are gonna have to eat alot more

i live a distance from the gym so any recommendations on solid carbs that will have to be cold?

I will put the other recommendations into place. I may just take a couple weeks to get used to it and not be able to finish my plates and all but progrss is progress.

[Phate]

At 28 years old - with realistic expectations and aspirations ...its your choice IMO ....

agreed as almost always, lol


IMO i think it would be in your best interest to abstain from cycling for the next couple months at least though and research as much as you can so you know what you are getting into and understand the consequences and responsibilities you are thinking of undertaking

[Phate]

i live a distance from the gym so any recommendations on solid carbs that will have to be cold?

I will put the other recommendations into place. I may just take a couple weeks to get used to it and not be able to finish my plates and all but progrss is progress.

i carry a tub of 5 minutes oats, a 70cc scoop(normal scoop you get in protein powder, which is around 13g of carbs for oatmeal), water, powdered nonfat milk, cinnamon, disposable cups and spoons, and some artificial sweetener in my trunk, along with my whey powder, so when i get done at the gym or need some quick carbs and am away from home i know i have some at all times

[crf450x]

eat some steak !!!

[seriousmass]

At 28 years old - with realistic expectations and aspirations ...its your choice IMO ....

brilliant wording. lol

[Immortal Soldier]

okay while I am going to drop the whey and see what I can do about only whole food. but lets say I have my diet spot on in 2 months or so. Is it REALLY that bad for me to do a cycle with only about a yr of lifting? or as long as I lift smart should I be ok with not injuring myself?

Wait a while, at least get a couple of years of weight lifting under your belt before you decide to go on steroids .

I mean honestly doing steroids with only 9 months of training is absurd, it shows you want the easy way out (no offense). Your age to me doesn't matter because IMO there are 21 year olds who are ready to start cycling in my opinion and there are 35 year olds that make me cringe when they start talking about steroid use because they don't know the first thing about training and diet let alone AAS.

Also im telling you this because its better to have a bigger muscle base before you go on steroids than it is to jump right on it.

You can't just do one cycle and stop and say "ok thats enough im done". It doesn't work that way because 1) Very FEW users stop after their initial cycle and 2) You won't keep those gains forever without another cycle sometime down the road.

[LateStarter]

okay revised my diet

8 eggwhites
3 whole what tortillas
hotsauce

can of tuna
2 cups redpotatos

8oz chicken
lettuce
dressing

one of my massive peanut butter sandwiches
bread
about 1/2 of peanutbutter
bread
1/4 inch of jam
bread
love those about 872 cals

PWO shake is about 500 cals

8oz sirloin
broccoli

so according to fitday this is about 2423 cals
20 fat
47 carbs
35 pro

81
408
297

Now thats for when I bulk.


as for cutting im at 15% should I start bulking or continue on to 10%
I say bulk but wanted some opinions.

[Phate]

okay revised my diet

8 eggwhites
3 whole what tortillas
hotsauce

can of tuna
2 cups redpotatos

8oz chicken
lettuce
dressing
what dressing, make sure it has good fats, like a balsamic vinegar/olive oil dressing is a nice easy one
one of my massive peanut butter sandwiches
bread
about 1/2 of peanutbutter
bread
1/4 inch of jam
bread
love those about 872 cals
you're kidding right?
PWO shake is about 500 cals
of what?
8oz sirloin
broccoli

so according to fitday this is about 2423 cals
20 fat
47 carbs
35 pro

81
408
297

Now thats for when I bulk.


as for cutting im at 15% should I start bulking or continue on to 10%
I say bulk but wanted some opinions.

questions in bold, and that's not a bulking diet, more like a cutting diet

[LateStarter]

So my job causes me to be very sedentary. The only exercise I get is my 2 hours at the gym 5 days a week. My maint is about 3000 calories according to some online tools.

pwo as of now is either a cup of oats dry and 3 scoops whey or the whey and dextrose.

so I take it the sandwhich is to dirty, ehh? or if you were questioning the calroies if you saw one of mione you would not question it. its about 6 inches tall with massive peanut butter and jeely and 3 pieces of bread.

Should I just do more chicken and some potatoes then?

the dressing is usually a itallian dressing. vinger/oil type