HELP! Strange Blood Test Results

[HomesliceYEA]

Hey guys,

I just came off a 12 week AAS cycle, test cyp at 500mg per week and pulsed epistane 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for the first 8 weeks (so 6 weeks on total).

I was dieting for the last 6 weeks of it. I am also using GH and was using T4 and T3. I have been on T4 for about 10 weeks now at 50 mcg per day...i started at 100mcg but decided to go with 50mcg. I also used T3 during a 3 week phase of my diet, ramping up to 120mcg per day for 3 days and then dropping back down. I tapered the T3 very slowly all the way down to where I was only taking 50mcgT4 and 12.5mcg T3 for about a week...then I switched to a different drug called Novotiral, which is a t4/t3 blend...i took half a pill per day, which was 50mcg T4 and 10mcg T3. I did that for another week or two. I am now on T4 only at 50 mcg.

My pct consists of:
Clomid: 100mg week 1, 50 mg week 2
Toremifene: 120 mg first 3 days, 90 mg next 7 days, 60 mg next 10 days, 30 mg last 10 days
6-OXO: 100mg week 1, 200 mg week 2, 300mg week 3, 400mg week 4, etc, all the way up to the full 6 caps per day
I started Diesel test hardcore at the end of week 2

That is the basic background.

Some things in my bloodwork came back very wacky. I should not I did this bloodwork WHILE i was on the Novotiral (50mcg T4 / 10 mcg T3). I was 2 weeks into PCT during the blood test.

Here are the things that were too high or low that I am very nervous about:

1) Urea Nitrogen: 32 (reference range 7-23)

2) AST/ALT were both high, but I'm not surprised, they should return to normal. AST was slightly elevated and ALT was almost double the upper limit of the range (81 vs 47), but my Alk phos and GGT were normal.

3) Surprisingly, my cholesterol was 134 (LOW!) and my HDL to LDL ratio was good

4) here is one of the worst parts of the test, obviously due to the thyroid hormone use, but I don't know how to interpret it or what to do:
T3 Total = 63 (LOW, range 72-170). I have no idea how or why my total T3 would be low when i'm taking 10mcg of T3 per day and 50 mcg T4 per day...this baffles me.

And even worse...my TSH was <0.01....this is as low as it can be...meaning my thyroid is completely supressed. Ref range is 0.4 - 5.2. I know I was taking thyroid hormones, but should it be that supressed? And is this something to be concerned about? I am only taking 50mcg of T4 per day right now b/c of its touted benefit with HGH. Should I continue this or stop taking it or what?

5) FSH and LH were both normal...but on the VERY low end of normal

6) Total testosterone : this is the other thing that came back VERY bad;

Mine was 72.9 ng/dl with a reference range of 286-1511...should I still be THAT shut down 2 weeks into PCT? There is also something to the right of this above the female part of the reference table that says 40-120 ng/dl...not sure what that is.

7) Strangely, my FREE test is good. It says here mine is 6.0 pg/ml and the refernece range is 1.2 - 6.6

Anyone care to help?

[HomesliceYEA]

no one has any insights?

[HomesliceYEA]

Can someone move this to PCT forum if it should be there

[peachfuzz]

not sure why people get blood tests during post cycle. what does your doctor say. i would wait until at least two weeks after post cycle for a blood test. if thing come back the same then i would worry.

also just curious? how long after last inject did you wait to start post cycle?

[HomesliceYEA]

I waited 16 days after my last injection, which is right in the sweet spot of waiting 14-21 days after test cyp/enan. I got bloods done during PCT to see if I was recovering. I don't see why that's such a bad idea. Half way into PCT and you should already have substantial recovery...which I clearly did not. Total test <100 is quite strange, plus the ref. range they give on the free test is 1.2-6.6...which does not match up to any other free test ref range i've seen online. Mine was 6, which appears high based on this ref range, but all the other free test ref ranges I see are like 6-15 pg/ml or something.

Also...the thyroid shit is mad weird...has nothing to do with pct also.

[Dog-Slime]

I dont see what you are confused about. You were taking test and shutdown your testosterone and have only been in pct for 2 weeks. PCT drugs take time to start working (nolva can take 4-6 weeks to increase T!). Im sure the clomid should work faster but dunno about the torm but you get the point. If we could recover in 2 weeks noone would run longer pcts. Also, you were taking thyroid medicines and shut your thyroid down... A huge suprise that would happen (oh wait its a well known and documented side effect...)

The whole point in doing bloodwork is to get OFF of everything and see if you have/are returning to normal. Run a good pct, come off the thyroid meds (for atleast 4 weeks) then have bloodwork done.

[HomesliceYEA]

Dog-Slime: I agree that most PCTs last approx. 1 month, but I figured with an aggressive PCT including 2 weeks of Clomid and overlapped with the torem would have recovered me more than 75 ng/dl. That's super low 2 weeks into PCT. I would think you recover the MOST in the first 2 weeks and that it goes up incrementally...2 weeks is a pretty long time into PCT to be THAT shut down, no? And also, why the free test results that I got? Isn't that strange?

Same with the thyroid stuff. Why the LOW T3 reading if I was ON thyroid meds? I was taking 50mcg T4 and 10mcg T3 at the time. This was clearly less than the high T3 dosing I was using during the cutting cycle, which yes probably shut down my thyroid, but THAT much? My tsh reading was <.01...that's basically nothing. And the low T3 is weird...and even my free thyroxine was borderline low. All pretty weird. Maybe i'm compeltely shut down and 50mcg t4 + 10mcg t3 isnt enough? I dont know.

I am continuing to take GH so would it be wise to drop the T4? I'm not taking the T3 anymore. Maybe worth coming off the T4 for 4 weeks just to get some natty production back and then go back on T4 or what? Also, should I taper the T4 dose lower than 50mcg per day?

[HomesliceYEA]

anyone?

[Dog-Slime]

Dog-Slime: I agree that most PCTs last approx. 1 month, but I figured with an aggressive PCT including 2 weeks of Clomid and overlapped with the torem would have recovered me more than 75 ng/dl. That's super low 2 weeks into PCT. I would think you recover the MOST in the first 2 weeks and that it goes up incrementally...2 weeks is a pretty long time into PCT to be THAT shut down, no? And also, why the free test results that I got? Isn't that strange?

Im of the belief that around the first week or so of pct you still have enough exogenous test to remain completely shutdown. So 2 weeks into pct I would think levels to be very poor.

Same with the thyroid stuff. Why the LOW T3 reading if I was ON thyroid meds? I was taking 50mcg T4 and 10mcg T3 at the time. This was clearly less than the high T3 dosing I was using during the cutting cycle, which yes probably shut down my thyroid, but THAT much? My tsh reading was <.01...that's basically nothing. And the low T3 is weird...and even my free thyroxine was borderline low. All pretty weird. Maybe i'm compeltely shut down and 50mcg t4 + 10mcg t3 isnt enough? I dont know.

The body produces around 20-25mcg of t3 ED naturally. Not sure on the natural t4 amount but I would bet its higher also. And yes I would expect it to be completely shutdown

I am continuing to take GH so would it be wise to drop the T4? I'm not taking the T3 anymore. Maybe worth coming off the T4 for 4 weeks just to get some natty production back and then go back on T4 or what? Also, should I taper the T4 dose lower than 50mcg per day?

I have no idea about the t4 questions as I have never touched the stuff.

[XNathan]

Hey guys,

I just came off a 12 week AAS cycle, test cyp at 500mg per week and pulsed epistane 2 weeks on 2 weeks off for the first 8 weeks (so 6 weeks on total).

I was dieting for the last 6 weeks of it. I am also using GH and was using T4 and T3. I have been on T4 for about 10 weeks now at 50 mcg per day...i started at 100mcg but decided to go with 50mcg. I also used T3 during a 3 week phase of my diet, ramping up to 120mcg per day for 3 days and then dropping back down. I tapered the T3 very slowly all the way down to where I was only taking 50mcgT4 and 12.5mcg T3 for about a week...then I switched to a different drug called Novotiral, which is a t4/t3 blend...i took half a pill per day, which was 50mcg T4 and 10mcg T3. I did that for another week or two. I am now on T4 only at 50 mcg.

My pct consists of:
Clomid: 100mg week 1, 50 mg week 2
Toremifene: 120 mg first 3 days, 90 mg next 7 days, 60 mg next 10 days, 30 mg last 10 days
6-OXO: 100mg week 1, 200 mg week 2, 300mg week 3, 400mg week 4, etc, all the way up to the full 6 caps per day
I started Diesel test hardcore at the end of week 2

That is the basic background.

Some things in my bloodwork came back very wacky. I should not I did this bloodwork WHILE i was on the Novotiral (50mcg T4 / 10 mcg T3). I was 2 weeks into PCT during the blood test.

Here are the things that were too high or low that I am very nervous about:

1) Urea Nitrogen: 32 (reference range 7-23)
You are in very catabolic state. Proteocatabolism is your state (low test and high cortisol), so dont worry about it.

2) AST/ALT were both high, but I'm not surprised, they should return to normal. AST was slightly elevated and ALT was almost double the upper limit of the range (81 vs 47), but my Alk phos and GGT were normal.
Just normal reaction on oral AAS, not damage but just overload from oxidative stress. It will come to normal.

3) Surprisingly, my cholesterol was 134 (LOW!) and my HDL to LDL ratio was good
Thanks to your T3/T4 abuse Thyroid hormones are hypolipidemics!

4) here is one of the worst parts of the test, obviously due to the thyroid hormone use, but I don't know how to interpret it or what to do:
T3 Total = 63 (LOW, range 72-170). I have no idea how or why my total T3 would be low when i'm taking 10mcg of T3 per day and 50 mcg T4 per day...this baffles me.
T3 at low dose produce this level and T4 conversion is blocked by T3 use and your own thyroid hormones are at zero. Stop T3/T4 and you will with luck recover within few weeks.

And even worse...my TSH was <0.01....this is as low as it can be...meaning my thyroid is completely supressed. Ref range is 0.4 - 5.2. I know I was taking thyroid hormones, but should it be that supressed? And is this something to be concerned about? I am only taking 50mcg of T4 per day right now b/c of its touted benefit with HGH. Should I continue this or stop taking it or what?
You are using exogenous T3/T4 what you expect? This is normal body reaction.

5) FSH and LH were both normal...but on the VERY low end of normal
This will come up as you will follow your PCT!

6) Total testosterone : this is the other thing that came back VERY bad;

Mine was 72.9 ng/dl with a reference range of 286-1511...should I still be THAT shut down 2 weeks into PCT? There is also something to the right of this above the female part of the reference table that says 40-120 ng/dl...not sure what that is.
Testes are unable to answer to normal levels of LH after "hybernation" its normal to have high LH and low test on PCT its take many weeks before they will be able to produce good amount of test from normal level of LH.

7) Strangely, my FREE test is good. It says here mine is 6.0 pg/ml and the refernece range is 1.2 - 6.6
Just body compensation to low total test and you have low SHBG from PCT drugs.

Anyone care to help?

I hope this will help.

[peachfuzz]

I hope this will help.

Everything I was too lazy to post. Great answer man.

[HomesliceYEA]

I hope this will help.

Thank you SOOO MUCH! Wow, very helpful. Seriously man, much appreciated. My AM cortisol was actually normal (15, ref range 5-25), which is good!

After reading your responses, I am comfortable with the testosterone stuff. I have been continuing my PCT and I am still doing it. I dropped the clomid after the 2nd week (15 days in)...should I continue to do low dose clomid? I haven't taken in in around a week, but i've been using toremifene the whole time. My toremifene is down to 30 mg per day now and I have about 4-5 days left of my total 30 day pct.

I'm still not sure what to do with the thyroid stuff. So you're saying basically that my thyroid is fully shut down from the 100-120mcg T3 doses right? and that since I was taking 10mcg T3 and 50mcg T4, my body actually didn't have enough T3? I have since dropped the T3 for a week now and i am using T4 only at 50mcg. I am doing this b/c I am on a pretty high dose GH cycle. Would it be okay to stay on the T4 at this dose or would you drop it completely and recover my thyroid and then go back on?

[HomesliceYEA]

Oh also, is it possible for my thyroid to recover at all with 50mcg T4 daily or will any amount of thyroid shut it down? I'm just very nervous about a rebound. I would like to use T4 during my GH cycle but I'm fully shut down now so it seems my metabolism is slower than it would be if i wasn't on anything, no?

[HomesliceYEA]

Oh, also XNathan, i said my LH and FSH were LOW, not high. LH was at the low end of normal...technically normal but barely

[HomesliceYEA]

bump

[XNathan]

Blood test was performed 2wks in PCT, right?

So Your LH is low normal and this is good level 2wks in PCT. It will come back as you will follow your PCT and also your testosterone .

To your T3/T4 yes this shoot your thyroid down. You have to decide what you prefer... good or excellent blood test or some expectable abnormalities and your desirable results?!

IMO in your blood test and your status isnt nothink bad. When you look at your hormonal use. It will come to normal if you discontinue this hormones.

Dont worry about your thyroid. Once you will come off T4 it will normalise in few weeks.

If you use high dose GH just use your T4 and T3. Discontinuation now make more harm than good.

[JiGGaMaN]

nothing looks unusual. those are pretty good for 2 weeks into pct.

[HomesliceYEA]

XNathan, what about coming off T4 now (i'm already off T3) and switching to a 3X per week GH protocol. A lot of people say T4 isn't needed when you only do GH 3x weekly, even if it's high doses on those days. I feel like I should let my thyroid recover a bit and then maybe go back on low dose T4. Why would coming off now cause more harm than good?

[XNathan]

You are using GH and propably your goals are different from fat gain, fatigue etc. all symptoms of low T3/4.

You can switch to 3xwk GH protocol and sill have some benefits and tapper down your T4 and let your thyroid regenerate. IMHO you will need to full recovery 2-3months. And blood work will be suitable.

[XNathan]

IMO hitting 3 hormonal systems cause interferences. You have to count with it.

[HomesliceYEA]

2-3 months off T4? I am bulking, so 3x weekly GH may work well anyway. Thing is, even with the exogenous thyroid I was taking, my levels weren't very good (T3 was low). So I think I might be better letting my thyroid recover and then going back on just T4 low dose, no T3, like 50mcg T4, and this way my thyroid wont shut off as much. I have already been using low dose T4, so I don't think I need to taper now...i can just come off no?

Also, jigga, why do you say those are good numbers? They look terrible to me...I've been using a low dose AI throughout pct, could that be causing problems?

[HomesliceYEA]

IMO hitting 3 hormonal systems cause interferences. You have to count with it.

What do you mean by this?

[XNathan]

Sorry Iam using my language system when Iam constructing sentences...

You used AAS so you impair HPTA.
You use T3/T4 so you impair your TSH-thyroid
You use GH so you affect another type of cell receptors.

All in mix is IMO huge shift in your homeostasis. Body try to adapt and this cause instability in your system depper than just simple AAS use.

[HomesliceYEA]

Okay, well I'm off AAS now and I think it may be a good idea to switch from 5on / 2off GH to 3x per week. I was thinking of using Gavin Kane's 3x weekly protocol with shots PWO IM 10-15 IU. According to him, this protocol causes very little thyroid shutdown and so I think may be a good idea to use it and come off the thyroid meds...at least for a couple months to let my thyroid recover and get good blood test. Then I can go back on either T3 or T4 low dose...like 12.5mcg T3 or 50mcg T4, which would likely not shut down normal thyroid production once I am recovered.

I think staying on any amount of T3 or T4 now would keep me shut down, even if it is low dose, or is that not true? Can my thyroid recover with low dose T4?

[HomesliceYEA]

bump....nathan?

[HomesliceYEA]

bump nathan see my question above

[HomesliceYEA]

anyone else?

[XNathan]

I suggest to drop GH and recover completly do blood work and than jump back on stuff.

Or you have some contest? In case of contest. Higher your T3/T4 and use GH 5on 2off. In other case IMHO drop all drugs and recover.

[HomesliceYEA]

okay, thanks for advice. I will drop the GH for 4 weeks while I concurrently drop the T4 and see if everything normalizes.