thoughts on 2nd serious cycle

[Sacrificial Steve]

Hi guys... havent been on for a while feel a bit cheeky for coming straight in and asking for advice again without giving any out!
but here goes, hope you can help me out

im 23 years old, 230lbs, 6ft, 11% bodyfat.

last bulking cycle was

1-12 test e @ 500mg e/w
6-12 winny tabs @ 50mg e/d
12-14 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
14-16 Nolva @ 40mg e/d
16-18 Nolva @ 20mg e/d

had good results, hardly any sides just ball shrinkage, hcg sorted that out and the nolva got the boys working again sharpish.

iv heard very good things about trenbolone , my next cyle is going to be for cutting and it seems that trenbolone (preferably the enanthate version as im not fancying injecting pecs and legs every other day like i would with the acetate) added to my previous cycle and an increase in cardio would be very suitable.

i am aware that its not a great idea to use the enanthate version instead of acetate for the first time incase i have a reaction to it but i will be injecting myself and am used to the delt procedure from my last cycle!

well, here is my plan for the next few months - all thoughts and questions welcome guys i appreciate your time

1-12 test e @ 500mg e/w
1-10 tren e @ 400mg e/w
6-8 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
6-12 winny tabs @ 50mg e/d
12-14 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
14-16 Nolva @ 40mg e/d
16-18 Nolva @ 20mg e/d
1-16 clenbuterol (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) tapering upto 140mcg e/d
milk thistle throughout

i also have some dbols knocking around, what are your thoughts to me using a low dose for 3 weeks at the begining of the cycle for a jump-start in strength? maybe 20mg e/d?
would this be putting an unneccessary stress on the liver considering i am using clenbuterol and winstrol through the cycle?

hope to hear from you, the feedback was great for my last post

thanks in advance

[Sacrificial Steve]

anybody???

[romo6]

I like that cycle,maybe a little early for tren but hey, whos to say?Dbol 20mg for 3 weeks will not hurt at all.You might add clomid in pct,tren will shut you down hard.Good luck.

[Gaspari1255]

Using tren with only one cycle under your belt? ehhh don't like it. Maybe go with Deca .

[wackod2]

no need to go over 120 on clen . if you do go with tren ace some have bad sides from it and 400 is a decent dose


id say test and deca but if you dont listen go with ace

[Sacrificial Steve]

thankyou for reply!

yes, i was toying with the tren for a while, i know the 19 nors are really for more experienced users. i must do some research into clomid then. do you have any base recommendations for dosage on this?

thanks again

[Sacrificial Steve]

thanks guys

i looked into deca but isnt this for bulking? tell me if im talking out my arse.

im after a cutting cycle before the summer. my joints arent the best so deca would fit in nice there...

cheers

[wackod2]

ahh all i saw was last bulk cycle as in you were going for another. Didnt read it all

test and Anavar perhaps?

the winny will harden you up but it doesnt really do anything for fat loss bro

[Sacrificial Steve]

ahh all i saw was last bulk cycle as in you were going for another. Didnt read it all

test and Anavar perhaps?

the winny will harden you up but it doesnt really do anything for fat loss bro

my first steroid experience was anavar only, and a very expensive one from my source... i took at 50mg e/d for 6 weeks with fair results. would you recommend a higher dosage than this?? (baring in mind my stats)

my idea for the winny is to take away the water retention from the test as part of the hardening - am i on the right lines there?

thanks

[T-MOS]

Never, and I mean NEVER use Tren E for the first time with Tren.
Its a BAD idea to go with tren for your second cycle in the first place, but Using E for your first try is not good as Tren is known for having the harshest side effects out there, so you are MUCH better off going with Tren A if you have to use it at all . That way if you have to stop due to the side effects, it will be out of you in days instead of weeks with Tren E

but second cycle you shouldn't do Tren...your first cycle wasn't set up correctly , it was OK ,but not optimum use of time or winny !!!

Cutting or bulking is NOT dependent on compounds, its all in the diet and training

You can cut on just Test
and I would save the clen for PCT not during the cycle
your winny timing is still OFF

[T-MOS]

Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week for Joint support
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED

PCT starts 14 days after last Test E inject which should be the day after your last Winny dose

If your diet and cardio are correct along with rest, this is a decent cutting cycle

[Sacrificial Steve]

Never, and I mean NEVER use Tren E for the first time with Tren.
Its a BAD idea to go with tren for your second cycle in the first place, but Using E for your first try is not good as Tren is known for having the harshest side effects out there, so you are MUCH better off going with Tren A if you have to use it at all . That way if you have to stop due to the side effects, it will be out of you in days instead of weeks with Tren E

but second cycle you shouldn't do Tren...your first cycle wasn't set up correctly , it was OK ,but not optimum use of time or winny !!!

Cutting or bulking is NOT dependent on compounds, its all in the diet and training

You can cut on just Test
and I would save the clen for PCT not during the cycle
your winny timing is still OFF

thankyou for new reply

i was probably being silly to assume that having no sides to my last cycle would stand me in good sted to be ok with tren??
if i was to be head strong and go ahead with the tren ace, if i reacted well to this would i then carry on with tren e or finish with tren a?

my original thoughts for the winstrol was to overlap the test by 2 weeks i.e.

1-12 test e
8-14 winny

but was redirected in my last thread to weeks 6-12!
what are your recommendations for this? sorry for the questions, i have researched quite thoroughly (obviously not enough though!)

thankyou

[wackod2]

my first steroid experience was anavar only, and a very expensive one from my source... i took at 50mg e/d for 6 weeks with fair results. would you recommend a higher dosage than this?? (baring in mind my stats)

my idea for the winny is to take away the water retention from the test as part of the hardening - am i on the right lines there?

thanks

amidrex is better designed for the job of keeping water retention etc. down that is what its for and will keep other sides down


T3 to accelerate the metabolizing of carbohydrates, proteins, and fat. The body burns more calories than usual so that a lower fat content can be achieved or the athlete burns fat although he takes in more calories

[T-MOS]

After all this advice received, tell me exactly what you want to run and I will try to help better and Tren A needs injected EVERYDAY or minimum EOD

[Sacrificial Steve]

Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week for Joint support
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED

PCT starts 14 days after last Test E inject which should be the day after your last Winny dose

If your diet and cardio are correct along with rest, this is a decent cutting cycle

ah sorry bout that i was writing reply at same time!!

thankyou for this solid advice. i assume the deca will come in handy for the extra cardio i will be doing??

my diet is clean and strict. i have already started my cardio regime -
4 mornings a week @ 30mins moderate paced treadmill
4 nights a week @ 20 mins swimming after training
8 x 5 minute short sprint eliptical training per week (before and after training)

thankyou again

[Sacrificial Steve]

After all this advice received, tell me exactly what you want to run and I will try to help better and Tren A needs injected EVERYDAY or minimum EOD

ok how does this look

Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-3 Dbols @ 20mgs/ED
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week
Weeks 6-8 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED
Weeks 12-14 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
15-17 Nolva @ 40mg/ED
17-19 Nolva @ 20mg/ED
Weeks 14-20 clenbuterol (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) tapering upto 120mcg/ED
milk thistle throughout

thankyou for your strong advice again

[Immortal Soldier]

ok how does this look

Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-3 Dbols @ 20mgs/ED
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week
Weeks 6-8 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED
Weeks 12-14 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
15-17 Nolva @ 40mg/ED
17-19 Nolva @ 20mg/ED
Weeks 14-20 clenbuterol (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) tapering upto 120mcg/ED
milk thistle throughout

thankyou for your strong advice again

Drop the d-bol IMO, seems like you are trying to do way too much for your second cyle.

[Sacrificial Steve]

Drop the d-bol IMO, seems like you are trying to do way too much for your second cyle.

i will do then!! thankyou. i mentioned in my earlier post that i have these lying around from a mate, there are only 80 5mg tabs so i guess they can just hang around a bit more!

cheers

[honda450]

The Dbol wouldn't really be a bad choice. I am taking it at 30mg/day for four weeks and I haven't even noticed much water retention really and I am getting strong as an ox. If you have them lying around I would just do them.

[T-MOS]

ok how does this look

Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-3 Dbols @ 20mgs/ED
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week
Weeks 6-8 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED
Weeks 12-14 HCG @ 1500iu every 5 days
15-17 Nolva @ 40mg/ED
17-19 Nolva @ 20mg/ED
Weeks 14-20 clenbuterol (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) tapering upto 120mcg/ED
milk thistle throughout

thankyou for your strong advice again

lets see if we can clean this up a bit

Weeks 1-3 Dbol @ 20mgs/ED
Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED ( is this oral or inject??)

Weeks 6-8 HCG
Weeks 12-14 HCG
Weeks 15-16 Nolva @ 40mgs/ED ( thats 2 weeks)
Weeks 17-18 Nolva @ 20mgs/ED (thats 2 weeks)

Why no CLOMID?????

[Mammon]

was just going to say... id run some clomid in the pct as well

[Immortal Soldier]

lets see if we can clean this up a bit

Weeks 1-3 Dbol @ 20mgs/ED
Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED ( is this oral or inject??)

Weeks 6-8 HCG
Weeks 12-14 HCG
Weeks 15-16 Nolva @ 40mgs/ED ( thats 2 weeks)
Weeks 17-18 Nolva @ 20mgs/ED (thats 2 weeks)

Why no CLOMID?????

See my thinking with dropping the Dbol, was because he is already running deca, I thought two compounds that have symptoms of excess (ie. water weight/bloat) wouldn't be that good to run, unless the OP doesn't care if he bloats like a whale.

But if he has them lying around than I guess it can't hurt, I just thought he said this was supposed to be more of a "cutting" cycle in one of his posts which is why I Deca/Dbol together wouldn't be the best if thats his goal.

[T-MOS]

See my thinking with dropping the Dbol , was because he is already running deca , I thought two compounds that armotaize highly (ie. water weight) wouldn't be that good to run, unless the OP doesn't care if he bloats like a whale.

But if he has them lying around than I guess it can't hurt, I just thought he said this was supposed to be more of a "cutting" cycle in one of his posts which is why I Deca/Dbol together wouldn't be the best if thats his goal.

I agree, i kept them in there cause of his statement about having them laying around and wanting to use them up. 20 mgs/day for 20 days isn't gonna do that much IMHO

[Sacrificial Steve]

lets see if we can clean this up a bit

Weeks 1-3 Dbol @ 20mgs/ED
Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500mgs/week
Weeks 1-10 Deca @ 200mgs/week
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50mgs/ED ( is this oral or inject??)

Weeks 6-8 HCG
Weeks 12-14 HCG
Weeks 15-16 Nolva @ 40mgs/ED ( thats 2 weeks)
Weeks 17-18 Nolva @ 20mgs/ED (thats 2 weeks)

Why no CLOMID?????

thanks for this i did mean two weeks!! confused typo!

how does this look for the clomid?

week 15 Clomid @ 100mg/ED
week 16 Clomid @ 50mg/ED

thankyou yet again this seems to be shaping up nicely now i think

[Sacrificial Steve]

See my thinking with dropping the Dbol , was because he is already running deca , I thought two compounds that armotaize highly (ie. water weight) wouldn't be that good to run, unless the OP doesn't care if he bloats like a whale.

But if he has them lying around than I guess it can't hurt, I just thought he said this was supposed to be more of a "cutting" cycle in one of his posts which is why I Deca/Dbol together wouldn't be the best if thats his goal.

i really dont mind whether i take them or not - if it is felt that it would not be beneficial in this cycle i am happy to leave it out!!

cheers

[Immortal Soldier]

I agree, i kept them in there cause of his statement about having them laying around and wanting to use them up. 20 mgs/day for 20 days isn't gonna do that much IMHO

Sorry I just noticed something. Just for clarification, I noticed an error in my post when I said that Deca aromatizes highly, I ment that deca causes symptoms similar to excess estrogen in the body and that cooupled with Dbol makes him more susceptible to bloating and water weight retention, (Deca doesn't aromtaize) .

i really dont mind whether i take them or not - if it is felt that it would not be beneficial in this cycle i am happy to leave it out!!

cheers

It's not that its not beneficial, its just you might be bloated on cycle and carry a good amount of water weight with you, other than that there is no problem.

It's your choice if you want to run it now or use it for another cycle.

[T-MOS]

thanks for this i did mean two weeks!! confused typo!

how does this look for the clomid?

week 15 Clomid @ 100mg/ED
week 16 Clomid @ 50mg/ED

thankyou yet again this seems to be shaping up nicely now i think

I would run the clomid for at least the 4 weeks as well as the nolva

I even like to make sure I have enough for 6 weeks just in case it takes a little longer to recover

the only other thing I think we didn't cover is having an AI on hand like arimidex in case of bloat or gyno signs

[Sacrificial Steve]

I would run the clomid for at least the 4 weeks as well as the nolva

I even like to make sure I have enough for 6 weeks just in case it takes a little longer to recover

the only other thing I think we didn't cover is having an AI on hand like arimidex in case of bloat or gyno signs

i had an op when i was younger on my nipples because of excess estrogen and had alot of cells removed. im pretty sure i am unable to get gyno now.
you would suggest i have some arimadex on hand just in case? and to cease using once gyno/bloat has gone?

[Immortal Soldier]

i had an op when i was younger on my nipples because of excess estrogen and had alot of cells removed. im pretty sure i am unable to get gyno now.
you would suggest i have some arimadex on hand just in case? and to cease using once gyno/bloat has gone?

LOL you will always be able to get gyno, even after gyno surgery. Wanna know why?

Well gyno is find behind the nipple where the mammary gland is located, during an operation the doctor tries to remove as much of it as he can as well as the "finger like" structures that have spread (if it reached that point) however, in order to prevent your nipple from caving inward, he has to leave a little bit of the gyno there. So running cycles afterwards always risks the chance or "reviving" the gyno and letting it grow.

So you will always have the chance to get gyno, even after surgery. Hell after surgery you should be more careful and take all necessary precautions or else you just wasted 3-5 grand for nothing.

[Sacrificial Steve]

LOL you will always be able to get gyno, even after gyno surgery. Wanna know why?

Well gyno is find behind the nipple where the mammary gland is located, during an operation the doctor tries to remove as much of it as he can as well as the "finger like" structures that have spread (if it reached that point) however, in order to prevent your nipple from caving inward, he has to leave a little bit of the gyno there. So running cycles afterwards always risks the chance or "reviving" the gyno and letting it grow.

So you will always have the chance to get gyno, even after surgery. Hell after surgery you should be more careful and take all necessary precautions or else you just wasted 3-5 grand for nothing.

ah didnt know that

arimadex on hand then!!

[Mammon]

hell id run it through the cycle to keep the water off.. not a fan of moon face myself..