ephedrin vs clen

[gamemania]

just interested in personal opinions here guys, preferrably from people who have used both...

1. what would u use if you want to cut up when on cycle? looking for a quick and minor reduction of fat no longer than a week and a half.

2. would you use either drug during pct as a means to keep fat to a minimum while still eating a high calorie diet?
or would you not recommend the use of any fat burner during pct after a bulking cycle?

if so, wen is the best time to introduce a fat burner?...how many weeks after the end of cycle/end of pct?

[magic32]

Good question.

just interested in personal opinions here guys, preferrably from people who have used both...

1. what would u use if you want to cut up when on cycle? looking for a quick and minor reduction of fat no longer than a week and a half.
Clen is about 50% stronger. Eph increases your core (not thermometer) temp by about 9-10% points (not degrees), whereas Clen does so at approx. 15%.

2. would you use either drug during pct as a means to keep fat to a minimum while still eating a high calorie diet?
Both are effective and won't hinder gains, pre- post- or during cycles.

or would you not recommend the use of any fat burner during pct after a bulking cycle?
There are no stronger 'fat burners', though the very term is a misnomer: "Yes" they heat you up inciting the requisite homeostatic response, but it is calorie burning, not fat...that is unless you create a caloric deficiency which can be further magnified by invoking Ketosis or close to it. Thus the TRUE benefit of so-called 'fat burners' lies within their CNS stim capacity to enhance your workouts making them harder, longer, and consequently more efficient (better)!

Of course, you could add T3/Cytomel to your cycle and PCT to augment fat burning. This coupled with Clen or Eph creates a formidable combination, but again you must create the proper burning environment for the expected results. So many people use either or both only to be disappointed by what they then perceive as an ill-gotten reputation.

My people perish for lack of knowledge. - Hosea 4:6

if so, wen is the best time to introduce a fat burner?...how many weeks after the end of cycle/end of pct?
SEE: #2 ABOVE!

[gamemania]

Thanks for the answer Magic32, awesome stuff man!

I just have a follow up...

based on what you say, id opt for ephedrine simply because i wouldnt need something as strong as clen and stacking with T3/cytomel , may come in very handy in future but i will not need it for now.

My use of ephedrine would involve three stages:

1. during the cycle that i am on right now. i have put on a bit too much fat for my liking (early on in the cycle still) and im hoping to cut as much as i can in the next week and then get right on to bulking for the rest of my cycle.

now, you mentioned that it will "not hinder gains"... if i were to make this work, i would be on a low calorie diet for a week or so. this presumably would hinder some of the gains in strength and muscle mass gains i could potentially make, so what exactly do u mean by it will not hinder gains?

2. i would possibly use it during pct. this time however, my calorie intake will be as high as wen on cycle (not during the 1 week i plan to cut). i would therefore not expect a reduction in body fat, but could this method possibly keep fat off without causing me to be catabolic?

3. i will use it also after pct, but this time not to keep the fat off, but to actively lose fat. just wondering, is it more catabolic to suppress calories as a means to cut fat, or to use a "fat burner" like ephedrine which will allow you to lose weight with less calorie supression? so is using a "fat burner" less catabolic?

[magic32]

Okay, let me first say that what's written below about Fat Burners, is more for the benefit of those interested members who enter this thread, as it should become abundantly clear below that burners are not your solution. Read on...

Thanks for the answer Magic32, awesome stuff man!

I just have a follow up...

based on what you say, id opt for ephedrine simply because i wouldnt need something as strong as clen and stacking with T3/cytomel , may come in very handy in future but i will not need it for now.

My use of ephedrine would involve three stages:

1. during the cycle that i am on right now. i have put on a bit too much fat for my liking (early on in the cycle still) and im hoping to cut as much as i can in the next week and then get right on to bulking for the rest of my cycle.

now, you mentioned that it will "not hinder gains"... if i were to make this work, i would be on a low calorie diet for a week or so. this presumably would hinder some of the gains in strength and muscle mass gains i could potentially make, so what exactly do u mean by it will not hinder gains?

If you put on too much fat DURING cycle, your remedy isn’t a fat burner or even T3. Assuming your calories are clean (truly clean that is), your problem is quite simply over-consumption. You’re just eating too much, the residuals of which are being stored as fat. When I spoke of a calorie deficit environment, I meant off cycle. During cycle you need to make sure your body is receiving enough of the type of calories needed to accomplish your identified goal. Either way (bulking or cutting) you need to consume sufficient protein in excess of 200 gms daily in order to partake of anabolism (muscle building). When you’re on cycle your body creates an anabolic environment for growth meaning, if you provide the three basic raw materials 1) Enough protein, 2) Enough overall calories and, 3) Adequate muscle stimulation then you’ll grow. Of course there are other concerns like rest/recovery, and dialing in the proper amount of nutrition for your goal but they’re on the periphery and serve to compliment/polish your growth. Your problem lies in the later, you need to spend some time in the Diet Forum and learn how to eat properly, after which the single best barometer for measuring your caloric intake is your waistline, so USE IT—let it guide your dietary regimen, not the scale, your clothes, girlfriends, or biceps.

2. i would possibly use it during pct. this time however, my calorie intake will be as high as wen on cycle (not during the 1 week i plan to cut). i would therefore not expect a reduction in body fat, but could this method possibly keep fat off without causing me to be catabolic?

Firstly, as indicated earlier ECA and Clen can be used anytime, but should OBVIOUSLY be employed when cutting. If you’re bulking don’t worry so much about fat for now. Fat management while bulking is an advanced method which you’re not yet ready to delve into. So choose A) Mass, or B) Definition? You sound like one of those little guys who's looking to get bigger but noticed fat along with the muscle, which segues nicely into my next point/question.

Secondly, what is your cycle (compounds, dosages, frequency, duration) and what are your stats and cycle history?

Thirdly, you don’t have to worry about catabolism (going catabolic) when on a real cycle because it’s virtually impossible as long as you’re eating something. Patients being fed intravenously without exercising at all gain muscle on steroids so forget about losing muscle.

3. i will use it also after pct, but this time not to keep the fat off, but to actively lose fat. just wondering, is it more catabolic to suppress calories as a means to cut fat, or to use a "fat burner" like ephedrine which will allow you to lose weight with less calorie supression? so is using a "fat burner" less catabolic?

If you recall what I said in my first response, so called “fat burners” don’t really incinerate as many calories as the manufacturers pedalling them, and sports models portraying them would have you believe.

Fat-Burners 101:
All they do with regard to calorie burning (fat burning when calories are deficient and exercise is employed), is elicit a homeostatic response from your autonomic nervous system (primarily respiratory, but secondarily cardiovascular) which attempts to cool thereby restore normalcy, to your slightly elevated in temperature body i.e. you get warmer and your body has to burn a few cals to cool you down.

• This combined with CSN stimulation effect (a principle component of Eph and Caffeine) increases your energy levels, and thus gym output and also indirectly since it’s synthetic energy suppresses your appetite (but not directly).
  
• Along with aspirin (herbally, white willow bark), a natural blood thinner speeds blood pressure nourishing and oxygenating working muscles more efficiently.
  
• In conjunction with ancillaries like Green Tea, L-Carn, Yohimbe/-ine, etc., serve to mildly coax stored fat and water from their respective reserves.

I said all that to say this, “NONE OF THAT WILL SLICE FAT FROM YOUR BODY!”

Everything above is minute in comparison to bodyfat, but will assist (as every little bit does) if the rest of your program is intact.

Again, visit the Diet Forum, learn how to eat, watch your waist and remember:

Bigger = Too Much Food
No Change =Too Much Food
Smaller = Right Amount