Review/Critique 3rd Cycle

[wukillabee]

Im 24yrs, 5'10", 205lb, 13%bf, first cycle was 8 weeks test enth 500mg week and second cycle was test prop 600mg week for 13 weeks with oxy first 4 weeks and winny last 4 weeks. I noticed i respond very well to test with only sides of back/shoulder acne but i have accutane now. No other negative sides from test. This next cycle i want to have a clean bulk based on my diet but not too sure yet what dosages to take. I have test 500 and deca 300 and enough vials for a long cycle for sure. This is what i was thinking:

week 1-4 Anabol Yellows 40-50mg ed
week 1-12 Deca 450mg week
week 1-14 Test500 at 500mg week
week 1-16 schering proviron 50mg ed
week 3-16 500iu week (2 250iu shots)
week 13-16 Tbol 50mg ed

Start PCT at Week 17
Day one 150mg clomid
week 1-2 100mg clomid
week 2-4 50mg clomid
week 1-3 25mg aromasin

Of course the test and deca will also be shot twice a week to keep levels as stable as possible, didnt think id have to include that but not everyone knows. I think this will be a solid plan for me and might even run the proviron same dose the first few weeks of pct as well, couldnt hurt. So now how does this cycle pan out for a third cycle and of course main goal is to pack on the lean muscle mass?!?

P.S.
The T500 is 250mg cyp and 250mg enth per ml. If gyno symps pop up i have pharm grade arimi, if milk comes drippin out i have liquid prami, if both happen at the same time i have pharm grade letro. Obviously only use if needed. Thanks!
The stats above are current, not when im going to run this cycle. I plan on cutting now naturally with just diet, cardio, and some clen . My bf will be lower than 13% when i start this cycle. I plan on starting it around august. Just finishing up the last week of my pct from my last cycle in the members cycle results forum and recovering 100%.

[chuckt12345]

why the tbol and you prb dont need to take HCG every week

[wukillabee]

why the tbol and you prb dont need to take HCG every week

Because im still trying out aas orals to see how i react. Like my last cycle i kickstarted with oxymetholone and found out that doesnt do crap for me and ended the cycle with winny which i found was amazing for me. This time im using dbol for first time and tbol first time giving plenty of time inbetween use for my liver and to see how they work for me. Also so the tbol could help harden my gains leading into pct just as winny did this last cycle.
HCG at that low of a dose i would think would help me recover easier when its time for pct. I figure by week 3 im pretty much getting shut down so its a good time to start the hcg. Ive already ran hcg last 5 weeks leading to pct at 1000iu week and saw how that did. Now im trying this route with hcg to see which one allows me to recover easier in pct. Also with deca im sure it would only help even more.

[wukillabee]

I originally wanted to do 600mg deca week and 750mg test a week but after doing more research found this to be too much on both accounts this early on. First time with a 19-nor so figure about 450mg week with the deca should do me proper like and 500mg test is plenty for now. This cycle i mainly want to see how i react to deca and of course get some muscle mass!

[chuckt12345]

id stick to just test deca and maybe dbol for kicker,, otherwise your trying 5 compounds for your 3rd cycle

[wukillabee]

id stick to just test deca and maybe dbol for kicker,, otherwise your trying 5 compounds for your 3rd cycle

I see what your saying bro but i know how i react to hcg and test already. The proviron im not expecting much more than a little dht effect and help with libido. Yes im trying for first time deca , dbol , and tbol and as you can see from my cycle outline, all of the above will be used at different times. The first 4 weeks will be dbol and ill see exactly how dbol alone treats me since none of the above would have kicked in yet. By week 7 i would assume to see how the deca is treating me. Now much further down the road into the last 4 weeks which is really 2 weeks of test and that 2 week window to wait to start pct ill be using tbol and should easily see how tbol alone treats me. Yes using more than a couple compounds for my 3rd cycle but considering my past experience and knowledge of it all im pretty sure its locked down. Just wanted to get some experienced users to see how it looks and if any tweaking need to be done for better results. I greatly appreciate your words bro but i feel im justified for exactly what im running and how im running it. Please correct me if im wrong of course but i dont see im wrong in this. Thank you.

[wukillabee]

Bump for some more input please.

[Yergg]

just curious... you say you are happier witht the results from winny than adrol???? WHat did you or didnt you notice witht the adrol????

[wukillabee]

just curious... you say you are happier witht the results from winny than adrol???? WHat did you or didnt you notice witht the adrol????

Thought i explained this above already? Drol gave me more bad side effects then gains. Highes bp from all of cycle, bad back pumps even with 3-4g taurine ed, bloody noses, headaches, and killed my appetite. Now the positives, mild strength increase (10-15lb each lift), about 12lb water retention, ummm and thats about it. Considering all that youll see the bad sides totally out weigh it.
Now the winny did everything i wanted it to. Much better strength gains than the drol, didnt raise bp much if at all, no bad pumps anywhere, dry dry gains, much more vascular everywhere. Only negative id say is the last week or two my knees got really tried out since winny can dry out your joints. I did take a good joint complex supp that helped for the most part in this though. Very good oral for me especially leading into pct.

[WARMachine]

You knew id be here brutha...

[WARMachine]

week 1-4 Anabol Yellows 40-50mg ed
week 1-12 Deca 450mg week
week 1-14 Test500 at 500mg week
week 1-16 schering proviron 50mg ed Good doseage. Could go higher if needed.
week 3-16 500iu week (2 250iu shots) Wait till about week 5. Otherwise good!
week 13-16 Tbol 50mg ed See IDK if id run it here. Id stop the use the day before PCT begins. Stay anabolic till the end.

Start PCT at Week 17
Day one 150mg clomid There is no purpose to shock the system. Please dont buy into the Anthony Roberts hype.
week 1-2 100mg clomid
week 2-4 50mg clomid
week 1-3 25mg aromasin

Good good good, but where is the NOLVA! Or Tormifene. You need 2 SERMS in a PCT brutha!

Of course the test and deca will also be shot twice a week to keep levels as stable as possible, didnt think id have to include that but not everyone knows. I think this will be a solid plan for me and might even run the proviron same dose the first few weeks of pct as well, couldnt hurt. Read my sticky. I cover the use of Proviron. So now how does this cycle pan out for a third cycle and of course main goal is to pack on the lean muscle mass?!?

P.S.
The T500 is 250mg cyp and 250mg enth per ml. If gyno symps pop up i have pharm grade arimi, if milk comes drippin out i have liquid prami, if both happen at the same time i have pharm grade letro. Obviously only use if needed. Thanks! Youre a little confused. If gyno begins to develop already, you need Nolvadex. If ERSEs begin, then Adex will take care of it.
The stats above are current, not when im going to run this cycle. I plan on cutting now naturally with just diet, cardio, and some clen. My bf will be lower than 13% when i start this cycle. I plan on starting it around august. Just finishing up the last week of my pct from my last cycle in the members cycle results forum and recovering 100%.

BOLDS

You need to freshen up on how to protect and treat ERSEs. As well as what to use during PCT. Again, read my sticky, itll clear things up for you. Youll see...

"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

[LexusIS09]

BOLDSweek 13-16 Tbol 50mg ed See IDK if id run it here. Id stop the use the day before PCT begins. Stay anabolic till the end.[/url]

I agree 100%. I was just reviewing the cycle, and it's the one thing that stands out.

If you're going to run the T-bol, which I might add, I believe is highly unnecessary at the end of this cycle. Then I would run it weeks 15 - 18 (or 19).. depending on how much you've got.

Very heavy for a 3rd cycle. IMO if you ran Test 16 weeks; and deca 14 weeks.. you'd get unbelievable results, your receptors are still fresh, you should take advantage of the lower dosage results while you still can.

but anyways, enough! have a fun cycle buddy. keep us updated

[wukillabee]

BOLDS

You need to freshen up on how to protect and treat ERSEs. As well as what to use during PCT. Again, read my sticky, itll clear things up for you. Youll see...

"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

Ill read it but wtf is erses? Never heard of that. I was always under the impression if gyno signs pop up with a 19-nor included in a cycle to not use nolva since it will only make it worse. The tbol like u said i was planning on using leading up to start of pct so last 2 weeks of cycle and that 2 week window waiting for the enth ester to clear. I agree with the hcg week 5, i was really gonna just wait til i noticed atrophy starting before i hit the hcg. Since its my first time with proviron i was thinking 50mg ed to start and ajust the dose from there. I can get pharm grade torm if thats better than nolva. I have no knowledge on torm except that its a serm almost identical to nolva but with less sides. Let me know bro. Ill read ur sticky right now.

[wukillabee]

I agree 100%. I was just reviewing the cycle, and it's the one thing that stands out.

If you're going to run the T-bol, which I might add, I believe is highly unnecessary at the end of this cycle. Then I would run it weeks 15 - 18 (or 19).. depending on how much you've got.

Very heavy for a 3rd cycle. IMO if you ran Test 16 weeks; and deca 14 weeks.. you'd get unbelievable results, your receptors are still fresh, you should take advantage of the lower dosage results while you still can.

but anyways, enough! have a fun cycle buddy. keep us updated

Sounds good. Ill extend the cycle. I got tons of test enth besides the test500 and 50ml of deca 300. Ill run the test 16 weeks and the deca 14, good idea bro. That way i can still run the tbol. I more want to run these orals not expecting amazing gains but just how in general my body reacts to them for future use.

[LexusIS09]

Ill read it but wtf is erses? Never heard of that. I was always under the impression if gyno signs pop up with a 19-nor included in a cycle to not use nolva since it will only make it worse. The tbol like u said i was planning on using leading up to start of pct so last 2 weeks of cycle and that 2 week window waiting for the enth ester to clear. I agree with the hcg week 5, i was really gonna just wait til i noticed atrophy starting before i hit the hcg. Since its my first time with proviron i was thinking 50mg ed to start and ajust the dose from there. I can get pharm grade torm if thats better than nolva. I have no knowledge on torm except that its a serm almost identical to nolva but with less sides. Let me know bro. Ill read ur sticky right now.

umm actually you'll be waiting for an 18 day window. The Cyp is the longer of the two esters man.

[wukillabee]

umm actually you'll be waiting for an 18 day window. The Cyp is the longer of the two esters man.

True true, good eye bro!

[wukillabee]

BOLDS

You need to freshen up on how to protect and treat ERSEs. As well as what to use during PCT. Again, read my sticky, itll clear things up for you. Youll see...

"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

Bump for warmachine or anyone who could help me on this. I read your sticky and agree with most of it. I didnt see anywhere though u stating about when using 19-nors on cycle and what do use if gyno symps pop up? Ive read that nolva on cycle with a 19-nor will only make gyno symps worse and only an ai like arimi like u described would be better suited, is this correct? Also, if nolva is no good with 19-nors then wouldnt it also be no good in pct? Now on toremifine, how do you take this stuff? People say its new but i believe it came out in 96, just no one really talks about it or uses it. Ive read its very similar to nolva just less sides and less liver toxic but need to take a higher dose then you would with nolva. Any ideas on how to use torm in pct or would torm be better suited on cycle instead of nolva with a 19-nor?
Yes i am gyno prone. My first cycle was test enth and round week 6 got sensitive nips, week 7 got small pea size lump in each, then took liquid arimi at .5mg ed and in 7 days flat all sides left for good! Stupid me stayed on arimi at .25mg eod to be safe and the second i started arimi i noticed my gains stopped as well. Now on my second cycle with test prop i got the same exact gyno symps around week 6-7 as well. This time i took pharm grade nolva at 20mg ed and exactly 7 days flat all symps went away for good! This time i took the nolva 5 more days just to be sure then finished my cycle 6 more weeks with no ai or serm on cycle and had no more flare ups and gyno free now 4 weeks into pct. As you can see both methods work perfect for me. I would then only assume on cycle with a 19-nor and these symps pop up to take arimi and be good. If not taking any 19-nors and these symps pop up to take nolva and be good. Does this sound right? Thanks!

[stpete]

Seems like a little too much for 3rd cycle but what the hell bro. Go for it.
Where you at from your last cycle? How's that going? I thought you had a good plan going when Reed and i were discussing it with you from your "cycle log".
How you been my man? Sorry about missing you when you were trying to get ahold of me.
Keep tweaking it and i know you'll be ok. Can you send your old lady over to give me some shots? haha... j/k bro.

[wukillabee]

Seems like a little too much for 3rd cycle but what the hell bro. Go for it.
Where you at from your last cycle? How's that going? I thought you had a good plan going when Reed and i were discussing it with you from your "cycle log".
How you been my man? Sorry about missing you when you were trying to get ahold of me.
Keep tweaking it and i know you'll be ok. Can you send your old lady over to give me some shots? haha... j/k bro.

Geez guys, its just two injectables and two orals split with like a 8 week gap in between the orals. Anyways, my pct is doin good. Had and still have a few bumps in the road in my personal life but still training hard and now feel im about 95% recovered in pct. I lost a grip of fat and retained what the mirror tells me just about all the muscle tissue i gained from the cycle. Now finishing pct i got all the water weight drained out to really see the gains now i made, very happy with that last cycle and the end results now.

[LexusIS09]

Bump for warmachine or anyone who could help me on this. I read your sticky and agree with most of it. I didnt see anywhere though u stating about when using 19-nors on cycle and what do use if gyno symps pop up? Ive read that nolva on cycle with a 19-nor will only make gyno symps worse and only an ai like arimi like u described would be better suited, is this correct? Also, if nolva is no good with 19-nors then wouldnt it also be no good in pct? Now on toremifine, how do you take this stuff? People say its new but i believe it came out in 96, just no one really talks about it or uses it. Ive read its very similar to nolva just less sides and less liver toxic but need to take a higher dose then you would with nolva. Any ideas on how to use torm in pct or would torm be better suited on cycle instead of nolva with a 19-nor?
Yes i am gyno prone. My first cycle was test enth and round week 6 got sensitive nips, week 7 got small pea size lump in each, then took liquid arimi at .5mg ed and in 7 days flat all sides left for good! Stupid me stayed on arimi at .25mg eod to be safe and the second i started arimi i noticed my gains stopped as well. Now on my second cycle with test prop i got the same exact gyno symps around week 6-7 as well. This time i took pharm grade nolva at 20mg ed and exactly 7 days flat all symps went away for good! This time i took the nolva 5 more days just to be sure then finished my cycle 6 more weeks with no ai or serm on cycle and had no more flare ups and gyno free now 4 weeks into pct. As you can see both methods work perfect for me. I would then only assume on cycle with a 19-nor and these symps pop up to take arimi and be good. If not taking any 19-nors and these symps pop up to take nolva and be good. Does this sound right? Thanks!

you can run an AI... like arimidex for the entire cycle, which will be useful if you are ERSEP... or "Estrogen Related Side Effect Prone"... obvs you know how to run it... 0.25mg ed / eod. (up dosage as necessary). Now here's the catch, if gyno symptoms should occur on cycle then immediately start running nolvadex until symtoms subside. You can have something like caber on hand as well, just in case.

you're PCT will be the same as usual.. just clomid / nolvadex.. and HCG will defs help.

I'm running a deca + test cycle + d-drol (as a PH backload) as well right now. 4 1/2 weeks in. 11 1/2 more to go lol. basically identical cycles.

[wukillabee]

you can run an AI... like arimidex for the entire cycle, which will be useful if you are ERSEP... or "Estrogen Related Side Effect Prone"... obvs you know how to run it... 0.25mg ed / eod. (up dosage as necessary). Now here's the catch, if gyno symptoms should occur on cycle then immediately start running nolvadex until symtoms subside. You can have something like caber on hand as well, just in case.

you're PCT will be the same as usual.. just clomid / nolvadex.. and HCG will defs help.

I'm running a deca + test cycle + d-drol (as a PH backload) as well right now. 4 1/2 weeks in. 11 1/2 more to go lol. basically identical cycles.

Lucky you, already in your cycle. I have everything but have to wait since im just finishing pct from my previous now. Anyways, i already understand everything your saying. My real question is, whats the logic or myth here that nolva cannot be ran on cycle when taking a 19-nor on cycle. Ive read so many threads agains this stating it will make gyno worse and only an ai like arimi or letro will solve. This is my main question as well as whats up with this Raloxifene? I think its the same as toremfine?