New Decision For Upcoming Cutter ? thoughts?

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 12:25 AM

Weeks
1-12 Test Prop 100mg EOD
1-6 Cytomel (T3) 100mcg ED (4 Day Ramp up & Down)
1-8 Clenbuterol 100mcg ED (Ramp Up To Max Tolerance)
2-8 Ketotifen 2mg ED (Taken Before bed)
6-12 Winstrol 50mg ED
8-12 Pregnyl(HCG ) 500iu E4D

PCT (Starting 3 days after last pin)
40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid ED
30mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid ED
20mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid ED

Goal: Strip off as much bf as possible, lean out and harden up, while holding onto all my lbm.

Considering using the P90X program during this cycle, recieved a free copy and all documents including nutrition guide from a buddy who just completed it, and it cut him up something fierce. ???

**AllPumpedUp** · 06-10-2009, 12:32 AM

too many compounds for me!! I like symplicity

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by AllPumpedUp

too many compounds for me!! I like symplicity

If you were to ask me.... i think it is pretty simple..... perhaps it is becaue i know what each compound is doing in this cycle..... 3 of those substances are ancilleries, low dose test to retain lbm winny to harden up... clen t3 to assist with fat loss using keto to upregulate receptors... And of course the first weapon as usual DIET

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 12:35 AM

anyone else care to chime in

**Hunter** · 06-10-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Bertskee

Weeks
1-12 Test Prop 100mg EOD
1-6 Cytomel (T3) 100mcg ED (4 Day Ramp up & Down)
1-8 Clenbuterol 100mcg ED (Ramp Up To Max Tolerance)
2-8 Ketotifen 2mg ED (Taken Before bed)
9-12 Winstrol 50mg ED
8-12 Pregnyl(HCG ) 500iu E4D

PCT (Starting 3 days after last pin)
40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid ED
30mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid ED
20mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid ED

Goal: Strip off as much bf as possible, lean out and harden up, while holding onto all my lbm.

Considering using the P90X program during this cycle, recieved a free copy and all documents including nutrition guide from a buddy who just completed it, and it cut him up something fierce. ???

Whats your bodyfat at? I really dont think you need to run t-3 and clen together to lean up, I would much rather have my diet sorted out and be doing cardio. I would drop the t-3 and just run clen if your hell bent on running a fatburner. Also I wouldnt start off by running clen at 100mcgs. Also I would run the prop at 75mgs ed and run the winny 6-8 weeks not 4.

just my two cents anyway.

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by mn_fighter

Whats your bodyfat at? I really dont think you need to run t-3 and clen together to lean up, I would much rather have my diet sorted out and be doing cardio. I would drop the t-3 and just run clen if your hell bent on running a fatburner. Also I wouldnt start off by running clen at 100mcgs.

just my two cents anyway.

thanks if you take a closer look at my post i state ill be ramping up to my max tolerance on clen...ive used both clen and t3 in the past, but never together, id like to see how they work together, as they are known to have a synergistic effect.... my diet is being sorted out, as ive been bulking naturally for the last 8 months with a surplus of calories, i will be operating in a calorie deficit for this cutter and id like to cut up fast, i could get close to my goals doing it naturally, but it would take alot longer.... and whats the fun in that... i agree with the winny, but im not sure id need that much test to simply maintain my lbm...although i could be wrong

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 01:13 AM

oh and body fat is currently high at 17%....id like to get to a min of 10% bf from this cycle....perferably lower lol

**_CrossroadS_** · 06-10-2009, 05:54 AM

I'd probably also get your BF down to below 15% before starting AAS. Less likely to see the side effects the lower your BF is. What are your stats? Have you posted a diet in the diet forum?

Fast isn't neccessarily good when cutting. You want to trick your body into thinking it is fat and happy while slowly taking fat off.

I went from 12/13 to 9/10% in 7 weeks on test only, with a 500 calorie deficit, and 30 minutes of cardio each day. I lost basically 6 lbs and replaced it with muscle in that time. My weight never changed. You should be able to lost 5-10 lbs. without all the other stuff easily and at the right pace. Then, to make the final step into less than 10%, they will be a big help.

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by _CrossroadS_

I'd probably also get your BF down to below 15% before starting AAS. Less likely to see the side effects the lower your BF is. What are your stats? Have you posted a diet in the diet forum?

Fast isn't neccessarily good when cutting. You want to trick your body into thinking it is fat and happy while slowly taking fat off.

I went from 12/13 to 9/10% in 7 weeks on test only, with a 500 calorie deficit, and 30 minutes of cardio each day. I lost basically 6 lbs and replaced it with muscle in that time. My weight never changed. You should be able to lost 5-10 lbs. without all the other stuff easily and at the right pace. Then, to make the final step into less than 10%, they will be a big help.

hey crossroads, thanks for the reply... i hear what your saying.... ive used aas at higher bf than i am now , i know it is not suggested, but i also had absolutely no side effects other then strength and muscle gain.... ive been training natty for quite sometime now because i wanted to give my body a nice break, and i know that losing fat at an extremely accelerated rate is not suggested, but to be honest, losing even up to 25 pounds over 12 weeks is actually not overboard at all IMO...not that ill evenneed to lose that much...

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 10:42 AM

stats
25
5'9
192lbs
17%bf
5 years training

ive been as heavy as 215 with a bf of 18% just over 3 years ago, but to be honest i was not really partial to the way i ended up looking, the look im more interested in achieving is more lean and toned with moderate muscle mass and good definition... as opposed to muscular and bulky, which i have been.... keep in mind im a pretty short guy.

As far as posting a diet, i have not done this, but i guess i will do so in the near future just to double check

**_CrossroadS_** · 06-10-2009, 12:05 PM

Steroids don't make you lose weight though. Diet and cardio do.

They do have their place in cutting, but it sounds like you got some work to do on your diet/training. Get a diet posted up. Let's go from there. I have a feeling you could achieve the results you are looking for in a pretty short time frame without taking AAS.

I won't give you the holier than thou speech, but I'd rather diet and run and get down to 10-12%, then do a cycle with a good clean diet, and proper training, and put on some lean mass. In the process you'll learn how to eat properly...something I feel gets left out of the thought process alot when deciding to take steroids.

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by _CrossroadS_

Steroids don't make you lose weight though. Diet and cardio do.

They do have their place in cutting, but it sounds like you got some work to do on your diet/training. Get a diet posted up. Let's go from there. I have a feeling you could achieve the results you are looking for in a pretty short time frame without taking AAS.

I won't give you the holier than thou speech, but I'd rather diet and run and get down to 10-12%, then do a cycle with a good clean diet, and proper training, and put on some lean mass. In the process you'll learn how to eat properly...something I feel gets left out of the thought process alot when deciding to take steroids.

i agree diet and cardio, this i know... its just that being a natural endomorph, ive honestly never had any success getting below 13% bf... i plateau and its damn near impossible to lose anymore withought either sacrificing lean mass due over cardio or under eating.... this is why i was gonna hop on this cycle, being at 17% im sure i could blast through that barrier...

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 12:45 PM

and with maintaining proper diet weight training and a moderate amount of cardio im sure i could keep those gains

**_CrossroadS_** · 06-10-2009, 01:52 PM

Nah, its scientific fact. If you eat less calories than you require to maintain your body weight, you lose weight. The portion that is muscle and fat depends on what you eat and when, and how you are training/cardio. There are thousands of natural bodybuilders who are "endomorphs" and cut themselves to shreds for shows without drugs.

I'm not saying steroids might not help, i just think the cost to benefit ratio is out of whack for what you are trying to achieve. It can easily done with a few months of eating right and cardio. Don't be scared to post your diet in the diet forum. It's ok to be humbled...and you might actually learn something.

Either way, do what you want, just think you can get your results without the money and risks involved with AAS.

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by _CrossroadS_

Nah, its scientific fact. If you eat less calories than you require to maintain your body weight, you lose weight. The portion that is muscle and fat depends on what you eat and when, and how you are training/cardio. There are thousands of natural bodybuilders who are "endomorphs" and cut themselves to shreds for shows without drugs.

I'm not saying steroids might not help, i just think the cost to benefit ratio is out of whack for what you are trying to achieve. It can easily done with a few months of eating right and cardio. Don't be scared to post your diet in the diet forum. It's ok to be humbled...and you might actually learn something.

Either way, do what you want, just think you can get your results without the money and risks involved with AAS.

Point taken... ill give it a go without aas for a fe months... ill def post up my diet and see what i can cme up with... thanks alot for your help crossroads, i appreciate it...

**killagorilla187** · 06-10-2009, 02:11 PM

Yes, diet is basically like 95% of the process! Once that is in place, everything falls together. If your on the right diet and then you use a good cycle, things will happen faster.

**Bertskee** · 06-10-2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by killagorilla187

Yes, diet is basically like 95% of the process! Once that is in place, everything falls together. If your on the right diet and then you use a good cycle, things will happen faster.

exactly, im just gonna go to the diet forum, gather intel, work natty until late july, then get on cycle...