Can we settle the d-bol debate?

[BigGreen]

It seems to me that kickstarting a cycle with d-bol is often suggested as a knee-jerk reaction, with all due respect to those that advise this, in a manner really no different than one might suggest (and i say this tongue-in-cheek) eating carrots to improve one's eyesight; simply because it is believed to be true. Now, I understand that more than a few knowledgeable bros on this board advocate this, having used it themselves with great success. However, my question is this: given that hardly anyone advocates d-bol only cycles (outside of its use as a bridger in more ambitious users), how are we to know whether the cycle would have been better or worse without the addition of d-bol? Could it be that a number of people employ the use of d-bol simply as a psychological kicker while waiting for the test and (insert accessory steroid here) to kick in? Or, might it be possible that the initial strength gains seen from the d-bol actually paves the way for the test and accessories to to kick in at an elevated plane, thus enhancing the cycle as a whole?

Given that no one can do a cycle with d-bol at the beginning, then go back in time and redo the same cycle in the same conditions without to compare results, can we attempt to settle whether or not this is an efficient and intelligent way to begin a cycle. I'm quite interested in this because I myself am looking at a deca /test enan cycle as my first, and am receiving conflicting "reports" as to whether d-bol should be included for the first four weeks. Additionally, i think it'd be useful to others...much like the deca/eq converstations/debates of a few months back.

[dankduke]

personally i hate dbol

[BigMike J]

I think that the test and or other gears solidify the muscle gains that are made from the d-bol.

[Warrior]

The Dbol is typically used because it is a short ester. It builds up faster while longer esters take their sweet old time. In long run, since you get results in the first few weeks this way - the cycle will give better results. Because otherwise you see little to anything the first 3-4 weeks on longer esters like cypionate , enanthate , decanoate or undecanoate... so you jump with a short oral or inject (acetate, prop, phenylprop or suspension)... to get the ball rolling.

[monstercojones]

i dont see how more gear would make a cycle worse and Dbol is dirt cheap

[FKNMONSTER]

<--- dbol is a waste bro's, spend the cash on more amps of juice, buy 4 weeks of test prop, i gained 14lbs in 4 weeks on dbol, but it makes you look so bloated, i love being normal again,

[nj_]

Originally posted by FKNMONSTER
<--- dbol is a waste bro's, spend the cash on more amps of juice, buy 4 weeks of test prop, i gained 14lbs in 4 weeks on dbol, but it makes you look so bloated, i love being normal again,

Get some liquidex to reduce that bloat. Dbol has its pros and cons, personally I'd still vouch to use it because I think it has more applications than just mass, I've seen people use cycles of just dbol/liquidex to get shredded.

[dickhead]

dbol retent water like no others. that what's make you strong and lift like an animal. why use arimidex the first 4 weeks. it will prevent aromatize and dbol is useless. just have nolve on hand. water retent is what make you strong agree? props will kicking w/i a week but the strength isn't there as for dbol. once the test blended in when the dbol is stop. arimidex should be taken.

[Sicilian30]

Originally posted by Warrior
The Dbol is typically used because it is a short ester. It builds up faster while longer esters take their sweet old time. In long run, since you get results in the first few weeks this way - the cycle will give better results. Because otherwise you see little to anything the first 3-4 weeks on longer esters like cypionate, enanthate, decanoate or undecanoate... so you jump with a short oral or inject (acetate, prop, phenylprop or suspension)... to get the ball rolling.

I couldn't agree more. I have done dbol "kicker" cycles, and cycles without dbol.
Personally, I think guys like me, want that fast kick, that dbol tends to give you. The pumps are unreal, and it doesn't take but a few days to see results. whereas, if you are doing test, or other longer flowing esters, it may take 3 sometimes 4 weeks to kick in.
Call it insanity or what but I need that psychological edge and quck results that dbol gives me. It helps get me motivated. Look at it this way.
Let's say I were taking a AS like sustanon . Knowing that it take about 3 weeks to kick in, I feel that working out hard is a waste knowing that what I am doing for those first three weeks isn't even doing much. To me it is the same as being natural.
With Dbol, I see almost instant results and helps and allows me to train harder, knowing that by the time I am off my dbol, my test would've started kicking in.
I think dbol is a good kick start to any cycle, however, some guys really get bad side effects, bloating, High Blood Pressure, hair loss, liver damage etc. Fortunately, the BP and the bloating is about the only thing I get from dbol. I make sure I take plenty of liver protectors when doing a dbol cycle, drink plenty of water, and watch my BP.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Warrior
The Dbol is typically used because it is a short ester. It builds up faster while longer esters take their sweet old time. In long run, since you get results in the first few weeks this way - the cycle will give better results. Because otherwise you see little to anything the first 3-4 weeks on longer esters like cypionate, enanthate, decanoate or undecanoate... so you jump with a short oral or inject (acetate, prop, phenylprop or suspension)... to get the ball rolling.

Not quite. D-bol isn't an ester at all. It is 17-alphamethylated boldenone ; no ester. Half life is approx. 4.5 hours.

-Spidey

[Pheedno]

I don't like dbol . Gets me so bloated that I can't move comfortably in any aspect of my life whether it's showering, lifting, playing pool or whatever. Last cycle I started at 35mg and upped to 50mg in the final weeks of administration. Even with 1mg of L-dex my bloat was unbelievable. My face never bloats but man did I feel fat those 3wks.

I would much rather add prop for a jumpstart than dbol.

To each his own but Test prop seems to be the prime choice IMO. The diff. in price is neglegable.

[Warrior]

Originally posted by spidey
Not quite. D-bol isn't an ester at all. It is 17-alphamethylated boldenone ; no ester. Half life is approx. 4.5 hours.

-Spidey

No shit. You read into that one Dbol is a c17 alkylated and obviously not esterfied - I guess I should reread some of my posts before I send them... I was merely referring to it's short half life and quick absorbtion.

[Warrior]

Although a Methandrostenolone Propinate would be nice

[hammerhead]

I've done a cycle without d-bol and then the same cycle with the d-bol in the front and the d-bol does make a difference with me at least. This is my direct response to your mental challenge. It was a good question too.

Personally i've seen d-bol make about a 2-week difference. That is it takes me about 2 to 3 weeks to start making real gains without it - it takes 2 or 3 days to start making gains with it.

Would the overall results of the cycle have been any different though? That is the question I cannot directly answer with confidence. My gut feeling is NO. Honestly the gains I made on the d-bol were likely gains that I would've made anyway. I reach this conclusion simply because the overall gains on those 2 cycles were identical in the end.

For me the difference is psychological. I hate being on juice for 2 weeks before I start to show it. Immediate results is good for me - mentally if nothing else.

I would like to challenge everyone to consider propionate as a better jump starter than d-bol.

[adaptations]

Dbol fucks with my head....I love the quick gains with it...anfd the gains on trength are awesome too...but for me...All the water weight that i hold from dbol....disaperes REALLY quickly....at around week 5-6.....i then lean out but stay the same weight due to the test kicking in...but it Def fucks with my head...i get all deroressed for like a week because i think i am small again...when infact im just the same weight but now without water.....

[Sicilian30]

Originally posted by spidey
Not quite. D-bol isn't an ester at all. It is 17-alphamethylated boldenone ; no ester. Half life is approx. 4.5 hours.

-Spidey

Yes Dbol is a dirivitive of DHT.

[MDMA]

Dbol sucks. Prop is the shit. Simple as that.

[BigGreen]

From the feeback i'm getting thus far, it would appear as though the d-bol is primarily utilized as a psychological agent, which does not by any stretch of the imagination rule out its inclusion in my, or any, cycle. I'm intrigued by the suggestion of prop as a kicker, though would that suggestion be at all altered given that the cycle in question would be based on enanthate and "accessorized" with deca ? Furthermore, is there perhaps a kicker that offers the psychological benefits of d-bol with a greater reputation for gains that stick around till the end of the cycle; var perhaps? Lastly, getting back to some of the other info above, has anyone utilized two different test esters in a cycle - one long-lasting as the base and the other, presumably faster acting as a kickstart of sorts?

[nj_]

Originally posted by MDMA
Dbol sucks. Prop is the shit. Simple as that.

You are comparing apples and oranges, the two drugs may serve the same purpose for kickstarting a cycle but they have completely different properties.

Example: You run a 6 week cycle of dbol only, most likely you lose all your gains. You run a 6 week cycle of prop only, you'll keep most if not all of what you gained.

[nj_]

Originally posted by BigGreen
From the feeback i'm getting thus far, it would appear as though the d-bol is primarily utilized as a psychological agent, which does not by any stretch of the imagination rule out its inclusion in my, or any, cycle. I'm intrigued by the suggestion of prop as a kicker, though would that suggestion be at all altered given that the cycle in question would be based on enanthate and "accessorized" with deca? Furthermore, is there perhaps a kicker that offers the psychological benefits of d-bol with a greater reputation for gains that stick around till the end of the cycle; var perhaps? Lastly, getting back to some of the other info above, has anyone utilized two different test esters in a cycle - one long-lasting as the base and the other, presumably faster acting as a kickstart of sorts?

Many people run 100mg EOD (or a similar dosage) of prop for the first 2-3 weeks of their cycle when using longer acting esters like enanthate /deca and avoiding orals as a kickstart to their cycle. I wouldn't run prop/enanthate together though for 10 weeks however, if I was gonna do that I'd just shoot sust amps EOD.

[BigGreen]

Originally posted by nj_


Many people run 100mg EOD (or a similar dosage) of prop for the first 2-3 weeks of their cycle when using longer acting esters like enanthate/deca and avoiding orals as a kickstart to their cycle. I wouldn't run prop/enanthate together though for 10 weeks however, if I was gonna do that I'd just shoot sust amps EOD.

This seems to me to be the most logical manner to kickstart a cycle, and I'm certainly going to look into this method a bit more. Any thoughts on var? Also, while you're generously answering questions, though I have no intention of using Fina this early in the game, does it have its place as a legitimate kicker? I seem to get fairly conflicting anecdotal reports concerning how long it takes for the stuff to kick in.

[MDMA]

nj_: Of course it's apples and oranges - however Im comparing them since they are used in the same manner, one simply works better. You confirmed this.

BigGreen: Using a short/long test ester in a cycle is common around my parts. However, they arn't normally ran at the same time. Goes something like this:

Week 1-3: 100mg Prop EOD
Week 1-10: 500mg Test Enanth
Week 11-13: 100mg Prop EOD
Week 14: Start Clomid or HCG

Nolv is taken week 3-4 and 11-12 to help reduce estrogen caused by all the excess test from the Enanth and Prop crossover. Hope that helps.

[Jarod]

Originally posted by dankduke
personally i hate dbol

Do you use anadrol instead?

[dankduke]

Originally posted by Jarod



Do you use anadrol instead?

nah i dont do orals ne more and have never done anadrol ...just never got great results with d but great results with IM (well obviouslY)

[XBiker]

DBol is a very popular oral AAS for several reasons.

1. It is cheap and easy to find.

2. It is fast acting and is normally used while one is awaiting injectibles to kick in to action.

3. It raises your test level approximately 600% while it is effective in the body.

4. It can be used several times throughout a cycle if wanted.

They don't call it the breakfast of champions for nothing.

[Warrior]

Dbol goes have good results with dopamine which can make you feel great! It's hard to get me to shut the fuck up sometimes

[Sicilian30]

Originally posted by XBiker
They don't call it the breakfast of champions for nothing.

Amen bruther..

[hammerhead]

Didn't Arnold take a shitload of d-bol in his days?

[Sicilian30]

I do believe he did hammer head.. that and some other stuff..

[MDMA]

He popped dBol like pez.

[Jarod]

Do you know how much?

[Animal Cracker]

I have used Dbol only twice..once at 30mgs a day..and once at 50 mgs a day. Both times were for 4 weeks...I saw gains from both..I think that lower doses are fine for me..once I went to 50mgs..the bloat came on hard! To some folks, 30mgs may be negligable, but it seems to be the magic number for me...taken all at once first thing in the morning.

[latman49]

The Oak was believed to be a big fan of dbol /primo but the doses are anyone's guess

[LightWeightBaby]

Everyone like dbol bc they are not patient and want immediate results strength and size. I like kick starting my cycle with it even though the whole 4 weeks makes me feel like I am going to shit out all my organs at anytime.

[ColdSore]

Damn...old ass thread...but its a pretty good read

Im running 30mg ed right now, with .5mg L-dex and 10mg Nolva ed...hardly any water...strength is way up, but not really a size difference...weight is up about 3-4 pounds...i think if i run it again ill do it w/o the anti-es...I feel that im being "cheated" b/c im fighting the bloat.?(by own pesonal decision to run L-dex)

[buckwheat]

i will be throwing d-bol mid cycle starting tuesday.ill will be sure to let you all know how it goes.

[Da Bull]

The back pumps suck,and I have a great threshold for pain.

[BigGreen]

Well, I posted the initial question over a year ago, and since that time have undertaken a cycle with dbol as the kicker, if anything else because I wanted to experience for myself a component of what seemed to be an important question.

It seemed that I experienced the extremes of both ends: real tough sides overall but very significant strength gains to match. I remember the lower back pumps ruining many a workout, and the pumps I generated in my shoulders while simply shooting hoops with my little cousin prompted me to stop that as well. Loss of appetite, EXTREME headaches and a few others hit me as well. In truth, I'll never use it again most likely, except perhaps as a bridge should I ever find myself in such a situation where it were warranted. 35+ mg in a day again though? Slim chance.

[bermich]

Dbol only cycles suck because you lose your gains afterwards. The test with it allows you to keep the gains and proceed further than where Dbol left off.

Sure it is water weight but you have the strength and the test will turn it into muscle.

[bermich]

Big Green. Have you used different types of Dbol .
Ive used Thai and Russian, and they both have different affects on appetite, head ache and such.
Thais help the appetite while Russian do decrease appetite and give a nausis feeling.