Endocrinologist Steroid information

**JMwrstler** · 01-12-2010, 01:27 PM

I recently had a couple appointments with an endocrinologist to ask about using pro-hormones or steroids to gain weight for wrestling and found out that a lot of the information Id been reading on the internet, hearing from friends, and even a few things I've read on this forum were misleading and in some cases just plain wrong.

The major thing I want to address that I see a lot of is the idea of training to reach your natural max and then using steroids to get beyond that. Now after a couple of tests (checking my natural test level,how tall I was, how wide my frame was) he came to the conclusion that my natural max was 195 pounds give or take a few pounds either way. That means that the highest lean weight (with a 6% body fat) my natural Testosterone will support is 192-198 pounds. A common misconception that I've read is you can get to your natural max and then use steroids to break past it, which is true, but you will only be able to stay above your natural limit while on an exogenous hormone source and for a time after (usually no more than six months) because as soon as you get your natural testosterone levels back to normal it won't be able to hold any muscle beyond its capability. He said that for body builders it didn't pose much of a problem because they usually continue to take an exogenous hormone source even after they've finished there cycle and ran a "Post Cycle Therapy " to bridge until a next cycle. But for an athlete it is very different So an athlete who wants to use hormones and has already reached their natural max(very unlikely it takes an extremely long time to get to that point) there isn't really a point because eventually they will lose all the gains they made because their body can not support any more muscle and they can't stay on hormones during season. It doesn't matter how fast you get your natural testosterone up and running because your natural testosterone physically can not support any more muscle than it could going into the hormone cycle if you were already at your natural max. Now if you are an athlete who hasn't reached his natural max (like me I weigh 162 with a 7% body fat and my natural max is between 192-195 with a 6 % body fat) then hormones can be used to get to your natural max a lot faster (years faster) then just working out and eating right to get up there.
Thats when he really got into what PCT should be for. He said Lets say you run an exogenous hormone cycle with a lot of different hormones (what we would call on here stacking) and you get your lean body weight up to 210, your goal should not be to maintain your weight and strength at 210 because that is literally physically impossible with your testosterone levels. What you should be trying to do is get your natural testosterone up as fast as possible and maintain yourself at 195 if you fall a little below that then that is okay you will still be a lot closer to your natural maximum lean weight then a lot of people will ever get. The thing is most people don't get their natural Testosterone levels up and running fast enough and fall well below their natural max. Which is disappointing because it is possible for people to maintain a lot more gains than most of them do they just don't get their natural Testosterone levels back up fast enough or give up on training when not on a hormone.

Another thing I asked about was what was the major danger for steroid and someone under the age of 19. He said there was a couple of things. A lot of the time they aren't done growing and it will fuse their growth plates shut. But that isn't really a danger as it won't harm their health. A lot of it just has to do with them being misinformed since as he put it "as long as I have been a doctor I have yet to have a single one make an appointment and come in to ask about using hormones". Now thats not to say there isn't a larger danger to their endocrine systems because there is unless their endocrine system has already stopped developing which is unlikely. Now after they run hormones and a "Post Cycle Therapy" the Idea that their natural testosterone will never kick back on is extremely unlikely unless they don't run a PCT ,which a lot don't because of their lack of knowledge, then that idea becomes a very likely possibility. The real danger if they run a hormone cycle and PCT right is that even when they bring their testosterone levels back up they will never be as high as they were before. Just as an example to make this easier to understand that means if I had run a cycle at 17 and done PCT and everything right then I may have lowered my natural Testosterone so that my natural max may only have been 185 pounds as opposed to 195 pounds.

Im not gonna go into detail about which thing he recommended for getting bigger or this or that or how he recommended getting your natural testosterone up to speed as fast as possible because a lot of the things I've read on here match almost exactly what he said. My hope is just that this will clear up some of the misinformation that is being put out.

**chuckt12345** · 01-12-2010, 01:35 PM

thats pretty much what is preached on here,,, so i dont see much diffrent. Only thing ill argue about is age,, there are more problems with starting to early than what your endo has tole you. Your talkin about one mans opinion compared to 30,000 members testemonials of real life exp.

**JMwrstler** · 01-12-2010, 01:36 PM

I think It was mainly just stuff I was misunderstanding not necessarily actually told like the natural max thing

**powerliftmike** · 01-12-2010, 01:37 PM

I dont like the idea at all that your limit is soley dependent on testosterone levels . That idea is pretty illogical IMO. For starters testosterone is just one of many hormones in the body, and genetic differences could intensify or dampen expression from signaling hormones--a factor outside of free hormone levels.

**chuckt12345** · 01-12-2010, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by powerliftmike

I dont like the idea at all that your limit is soley dependent on testosterone levels. That idea is pretty illogical IMO. For starters testosterone is just one of many hormones in the body, and genetic differences could intensify or dampen expression from signaling hormones--a factor outside of free hormone levels.

i wouldnt say its soley but i believe it plays a major factor. My first TRT dose i put exactly 8lbs on me and ill stay steady at the same diet as without any outside test. Soon as i got off it my i went back to my exact same weight previous and never altered. i recently started back again and i put on the exact same weight as the first time. Im not sayin this is everyone but for me my weight depends greatly on what my ng's of test read.

**JMwrstler** · 01-12-2010, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by powerliftmike

I dont like the idea at all that your limit is soley dependent on testosterone levels. That idea is pretty illogical IMO. For starters testosterone is just one of many hormones in the body, and genetic differences could intensify or dampen expression from signaling hormones--a factor outside of free hormone levels.

He did mention other hormones especially when he started talking about PCT but He was pretty clear about Testosterone being what maintained your muscle fiber

**chuckt12345** · 01-12-2010, 01:52 PM

i thnk alot of people confuse the term natural. When i see natural i take it as any weight at a normal diet/training that does not include AAS. I think we see natural on this bored and take it 2 diffrent ways.

1) A 6' male with a normal good diet of 3k calories and good workout routine may have a natural weight of 200 lbs (being an older male whos endo is fully functional and everything has stopped growing). This is a weight that can be maintained for the course of his lifetime without drastic measures.

2) Same 6' male with 5k diet and intense w/o routine may have a weight of 220lb and some people will consider this natural. (as in natural being non AAS)

To me 1) is considered his natural weight because #2 cannont keep 220 without intesne dieting, while others on this bored think you need to be at #2's level before starting any AAS.

**JMwrstler** · 01-12-2010, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by chuckt12345

i thnk alot of people confuse the term natural. When i see natural i take it as any weight at a normal diet/training that does not include AAS. I think we see natural on this bored and take it 2 diffrent ways.

1) A 6' male with a normal good diet of 3k calories and good workout routine may have a natural weight of 200 lbs (being an older male whos endo is fully functional and everything has stopped growing). This is a weight that can be maintained for the course of his lifetime without drastic measures.

2) Same 6' male with 5k diet and intense w/o routine may have a weight of 220lb and some people will consider this natural. (as in natural being non AAS)

To me 1) is considered his natural weight because #2 cannont keep 220 without intesne dieting.

He defined natural as being what your body can do without taking an exogenous hormone so thats what Im referring too