Diphenhydramine HCL (Benadryl) and beta-2 receptors

[Mr.Rose]

I want to get a verdict on this once and for all because as i was doing my research i came across a few posts where vets and the biology/chemist scholars amongst us came to the conclusion that Diphenhydramine HCL DOES NOT up-regulate our beta-2 receptors after clenbuterol down-regulates them.

If not, what does? Will ketotifen really up-regulate them? Or is our best option time off clen , letting the receptors recover?

So far the only thing i know that seems to work at up-regulating the receptors is cytomel (T3) which for me at least makes the clenbutarol more effective for a longer period of time.

What are people opinions?

[Phate]

I want to get a verdict on this once and for all because as i was doing my research i came across a few posts where vets and the biology/chemist scholars amongst us came to the conclusion that Diphenhydramine HCL DOES NOT up-regulate our beta-2 receptors after clenbuterol down-regulates them.

If not, what does? Will ketotifen really up-regulate them? Or is our best option time off clen , letting the receptors recover?

So far the only thing i know that seems to work at up-regulating the receptors is cytomel (T3) which for me at least makes the clenbutarol more effective for a longer period of time.

What are people opinions?

ketotifen fumarate should work, i'll have to take another look at the pharmacokinetics of the two but i'm pretty sure it works

diphenhydramine won'tt

[Mr.Rose]

Thanks for that Phate. Let me know .

Diphenydramine does one thing useful whilst im on clen , it puts me to bed.

[Phate]

Thanks for that Phate. Let me know .

Diphenydramine does one thing useful whilst im on clen , it puts me to bed.

that it does, though ketotifen fumarate hits even harder

[Mr.Rose]

I agree on that too, . But unfortunately i cannot get ketotifen in australia w/o ordering from a research company.

[Bossman]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to change the profile description of clen on the steroid profiles page. It still supports bendryl as an option.

Quote:
Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell´s outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly. (7). This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it´ll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2´s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation (16), and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

[D7M]

^Agreed. There's actually a few profiles that need updated...

[tballz]

Ar-r 's keto is good stuff. Makes you very sleepy.

[Mr.Rose]

^ x2. D7M, now with your new status you could go about and try fix a few profile, .

Ok, so we've ruled out Diphenhydramine HCL, which means that ketotifen fumarate and T3 are the only things we know of to date that will up-regulate our receptors and are easy to get a hold off.

[Bossman]

This is valuable info here. I can't count the people I know using benedryl and I know I've recommended it numerous times. My next cut Im using Ketotifen. It will be interesting to see the difference.

Live and learn.

[buffgator]

I'm sticking with benedryle. I have used it and others have used it for years and magicaly the clen keeps working.

[PT]

ask ronni rowland about this, i belive he posted some good info against benedryle before

[D7M]

^^^

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=380366

[PT]

thanx D7M and congrats on becoming a vet

[Mr.Rose]

^^

Thanks for that, I've been looking everywhere for that thread... but couldn't find it, so i started my own... as you do, .

Ok Anwear me this, Diphenydramine will put me to bed right, as it does? But when i use it can never stay asleep more than 3-4 hours at a time, i keep waking up, Is this the Diphenydramine or is this me?

[Okinawa_Power]

^^

Thanks for that, I've been looking everywhere for that thread... but couldn't find it, so i started my own... as you do, .

Ok Anwear me this, Diphenydramine will put me to bed right, as it does? But when i use it can never stay asleep more than 3-4 hours at a time, i keep waking up, Is this the Diphenydramine or is this me?

Mr. Rose I am the same way. I am up to 150mcgs a day and I take the Diphenydramine and it puts me to sleep, however I'm up again in 2-3 hours. The funny thing is that I am hungry as **** when I wake up.

[toothache]

Ketotifen will make you hungry as hell also.

[Mr.Rose]

haha, well im always hungry thx to the test and tren , hahahaha, but when i wake up my appetite is through the roof, i could eat a cow.... and i shouldn't say that cuz im wog and i know i actually would eat a cow. hahaha.

But yeh it puts me to bed but it keeps me up, not even the tren does that. sigh. lol.

[Phate]

^^

Thanks for that, I've been looking everywhere for that thread... but couldn't find it, so i started my own... as you do, .

Ok Anwear me this, Diphenydramine will put me to bed right, as it does? But when i use it can never stay asleep more than 3-4 hours at a time, i keep waking up, Is this the Diphenydramine or is this me?

i've never had this problem and there is nothing about diphenhydramine(at least from the chemistry angle) that would suggest that it causes this. It has pronounced sedative effects though it has a variable half life ranging from 2.4-9.3 hours, if you are metabolizing it quickly the sedative effects could wear off before the clen does, which could cause you to awake due to your sympathetic nervous system being stimulated

try taking the clen 3-4 hours earlier than you do know, but take the benedryl before bed and see how that works

[MONEY AND MASS]

after doing some coke one night it was real hard for me to fall asleep and i wanted my eight hours so I drank some benadryl and the next morning workout I was stronger...

I DONT KNOW...

[Mr.Rose]

Money and Mass this is a serious topic and I'm startling to get annoyed with your hijacking of threads with NO intellectual input at all.


Back to the thread.

I though i would update. Okay i tried a little experiment, and coincidentally enough, after taking 150-200mg of Diphen HCL, the next day my clen side effects where much more pronounced, more the heat, not the shaking. I'm now almost two weeks into it, and as with my numerous cycles, by this time i don't get any sides at all. Thinking this was a one off, i tried again. The next day, same thing. I took three days off the Diphen HCL and still continued to take the clen. Oddly enough on those days the clen side effects where much less pronounced from the second day onwards. Again i retook my diphen HCL and guess what? My clen sides where back again.

I think there is some truth to the diphen HCL boys? Maybe not at up-regulating the receptors permanently, but at least for the day you took the diphen? Kind of like keeping a gate open.

Any more input?

[Bossman]

Money and Mass this is a serious topic and I'm startling to get annoyed with your hijacking of threads with NO intellectual input at all.


Back to the thread.

I though i would update. Okay i tried a little experiment, and coincidentally enough, after taking 150-200mg of Diphen HCL, the next day my clen side effects where much more pronounced, more the heat, not the shaking. I'm now almost two weeks into it, and as with my numerous cycles, by this time i don't get any sides at all. Thinking this was a one off, i tried again. The next day, same thing. I took three days off the Diphen HCL and still continued to take the clen. Oddly enough on those days the clen side effects where much less pronounced from the second day onwards. Again i retook my diphen HCL and guess what? My clen sides where back again.

I think there is some truth to the diphen HCL boys? Maybe not at up-regulating the receptors permanently, but at least for the day you took the diphen? Kind of like keeping a gate open.

Any more input?

Hmmmmm, interesting. Ronnie says it does nothing but help put you to sleep. I remember reading a long time back about the benedryl breakthrough. Ronnie is the only one I've ever hear disputing benedryl's ability to up regulate beta 2 receptors. Im still on the fence.

[Bossman]

Written by Anthony Roberts:

As you know, Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week) will help with keeping your beta-receptors working properly. Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors.

Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes tham as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it'll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2?s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation, and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

In addition, many athletes have issues sleeping while on clen, and Benadryl before bed can help with that.

Finally, stimulants are well known to cause Anxiety in some, and clenbuterol is a stimulant; Benadryl is widely prescribed as an OTC anti-anxiety medication, when people go to emergency rooms with classic panic attack/anxiety symptoms.

SO using benadryl with your clen will upgrade your receptors, help you sleep, and avert stimulant based anxiety.

[Phate]

Written by Anthony Roberts:

As you know, Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week) will help with keeping your beta-receptors working properly. Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors.

Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes tham as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it'll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2?s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation, and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

In addition, many athletes have issues sleeping while on clen, and Benadryl before bed can help with that.

Finally, stimulants are well known to cause Anxiety in some, and clenbuterol is a stimulant; Benadryl is widely prescribed as an OTC anti-anxiety medication, when people go to emergency rooms with classic panic attack/anxiety symptoms.

SO using benadryl with your clen will upgrade your receptors, help you sleep, and avert stimulant based anxiety.

the chemistry he's citing is in error

[Bossman]

Not disagreeing with you Phate, just wondering how it's in error. This stuff is pretty heady to me, Im a roofer by trade. Same with Ronnie Rowlands explanation. Is it possible to put it in laymens terms?

[sweezy]

What are beta2 receptors ?

[Phate]

Not disagreeing with you Phate, just wondering how it's in error. This stuff is pretty heady to me, Im a roofer by trade. Same with Ronnie Rowlands explanation. Is it possible to put it in laymens terms?

i'll see if MuscleScience can, i don't know this type of exercise biology as well as he does

What are beta2 receptors ?

also called adrenoreceptors, search for them

[sweezy]

i'll see if MuscleScience can, i don't know this type of exercise biology as well as he does



also called adrenoreceptors, search for them

Are they the same as muscle receptors ? sorry if its an uneducated question

[Mr.Rose]

Yes please more science will help put this thread to rest. I'm a University student, so throw all the scientific terms you want at my face. .

[Mr.Rose]

Oh and yeh MuscleScience, do you mind joining us, please .