Is my DR. and idiot he goes NO need for PCT or i could use a B.Identical hormone?

**rj90** · 05-02-2010, 07:13 AM

Hey, just got bak form the DR. with my bloodwork results before i start my cycle. I told my DR. i will be running 500mg of sustanon per week for 12 weeks and 200mg of deca for joint pain for 10 weeks. I asked him about PCT (Novladex & clomid) Firstly he said no need for deca cause the testosterone will help joint pain anyway? i told him no it reduces collagen and he said his 100% sure it will help, is he right? He also said do not do the deca...and couldnt understand the connection with nolvadex and clomid for PCT he goes his never herd of it used for this reason and it doesnt make sense! He also had in his draw this bio identical hormone cream and spray which u use to increase testosterone ...He said u generally dont need a PCT when doing sustanon for 12 weeks you will recover naturally. He also said if i wanted, the best thing to use is the cream and spray and that will bring test levels up naturally. Is he right? i asked him how long do i take it 4, he goes as long as u like 6 months, one year or your whole life? is the DR an idiot or what? will i recover naturally, do i take the deca, or will testosterone help my joints? also the cream is used once a day which u rub on your bicep. how long should i use it for to bring my test levels up if i decide to get it? thanks guys

**ScotchGuard** · 05-02-2010, 08:25 AM

My hats off to Dr's. My best friend of 42 years is an MD. I've never seen anyone study harder than him during medical school. On the other hand, he's the first one to admit that just because he's a Dr. doesn't mean he knows everything. Dr's are just people like us. They only know what they know. Some of them with less experience doesn't even know that they don't know so they can't even do the research. From a practical perspective I think there is a greater knowledge base on this forum back with empirical experience. Test is harder on the joints then deca . Deca does shut you down harder than Test. PCT is absolutely recommended. After my 12 week Sustanon 250 cycle my nuts shrunk quite a bit and I had acne issues. After 6 months I'm still getting some acne. This was after good PCT. I can imagine what I'd be like with no PCT. Absorption due to cream isn't any more "natural" then a shot of test prop. I almost did a business deal with a pharma company that had a patented dermal drug delivery system. The whole patent was about how quickly and efficiently the patch will transfer medication through the skin. What the difference if your test level spikes due to a patch, cream or a shot it the butt? There's no difference.

**forte** · 05-02-2010, 05:57 PM

there is no "harder shot down" test or deca will immediately shot down you hpta functions therefor you natural testosterone production will be 0 even at small dosage.
recovery w/o pct is theoretically possible but will take forever and is very risky.
imo you dr is not an idiot but like scotchguard said, is impossible to know everything

**TommyGUNZZZ** · 05-03-2010, 02:06 AM

yeah y doc said the same thing. They are just not trained for steriod use

**terraj** · 05-03-2010, 03:32 AM

They don't know bro. Just do your planned cycle and use the Doc for bloodwork.

My first 2 cycles ( years ago) on the advice and weekly administered shots of my Doc was Deca and Dbol for 10 weeks....not the best advice yeah

**stevey_6t9** · 05-03-2010, 06:03 AM

as much as i admire physicians for being one of the most intelligent professions, unless your an endocronologist they have very little experience and understanding fully of androgens.

there university criteria doesnt go in depth regarding them, they are merely taught they cause liver tumors, CVD etc etc

**FCVtec** · 05-03-2010, 08:32 PM

I had some BP problems while on Test and HGH a few months back and went to a Sport Science Doctor or something like that and I am going back for bloodwork once PCT is done (3 weeks from now). He did tell me that if I don't show normal levels on my BW theres a patch we can use to stimulate Testosterone production. Scotch, from what my Doc told me the "patch", or in rj90's case "Cream" is used to stimulate production, I don't think is a Test patch. And I am assuming rj90 's cream serves the same purpose as the patch my doc mentioned.

**edmen2** · 05-04-2010, 08:19 AM

docs use their knowledge and logic to explain things! but if ur doc is like my friend who is a very highly respected dr in my city he is a listener! explain the concepts of the shutdown and the theory behind pct recovery and he will be intrigued to study up on it. ive learned docs love to read and educate themselves even more!

**rj90** · 05-05-2010, 03:29 AM

yeah i guess yous are all correct. i wouldnt run my cycle without pct anyway. but i atleast thought he would know that clomid and nolvadex can be used to bring back testosterone levels .

**edmen2** · 05-05-2010, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by rj90

yeah i guess yous are all correct. i wouldnt run my cycle without pct anyway. but i atleast thought he would know that clomid and nolvadex can be used to bring back testosterone levels.

explain to him why u use the clomid and nolva! let us know his rebuttal but regardless what he says ill bet after he will look it up and make his own judgement!

**Bossman** · 05-05-2010, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by edmen2

explain to him why u use the clomid and nolva! let us know his rebuttal but regardless what he says ill bet after he will look it up and make his own judgement!

LOL, most DR's I've met have a holier than thou attitude. I can't even get my question out before my Dr starts correcting me.

I see a sports Dr who has no problem with what Im doing. But, he also has no idea of what we do to recover. We who use AAS have come up with our own recovery methods. Don't expect any understanding or cooperation from your DR. LIke was said, use them for BW only and do the rest on your own. Ask questions here if you need help interpreting.

**thisbmine** · 05-05-2010, 07:04 AM

If I tell my dr im on a course, say, on wk 11.. can he prescribe me Nov? Think its only on prescription in this country. (au.)

**calgarian** · 05-05-2010, 07:36 AM

is he a general physician or Endocrinologist? General physician know nothing about AAS Endocrinologists on the other hand is a different story.

**thisbmine** · 05-05-2010, 07:39 AM

calgarian - if youre replying to me, GP. Ta for the tip, Ill google them tomorrow and see how I go about getting an apt. Anything specific you recommend? Or just tell him Ive done a course?

**calgarian** · 05-05-2010, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by thisbmine

calgarian - if youre replying to me, GP. Ta for the tip, Ill google them tomorrow and see how I go about getting an apt. Anything specific you recommend? Or just tell him Ive done a course?

I was actually replying to thread starter. But I think its implies to you too. Here in Canada u cant get an appointment from Endo ur GP has to refer it to u. Plus dont expect him to write u a prescription cause u asked for it . Also Make SURE you read up all the side effects and everything u can about a particular drug u r going to ask him about and if he is gr8 doctor like my Endo he will take time to explain it to u and when u do research u can cross question him.
Off Record my Endo told me its ok to run HGH on low Iu's for 2 yrs then u have to come off. but he wont give me prescription.(damn him).

**thisbmine** · 05-05-2010, 08:31 AM

Cal - added to ur rep. Nice post. Keep that up

**Nicotine** · 05-05-2010, 08:43 AM

my endo was friendly to AAS.

he said PCT has it's place. he recommended HCG in addition to clo/nolva. (of course, HCG before end of cycle)

**gongshow** · 05-05-2010, 03:47 PM

i did not speak with my doctor about pct. but she said that i would be safe to run a 3month cycle and my natty test would recover no problem, i would listen to your doc dude at the end of the day, take what you hear, here with a grain of salt when it comes to medical research lol. good luck

**edmen2** · 05-05-2010, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by gongshow

i did not speak with my doctor about pct. but she said that i would be safe to run a 3month cycle and my natty test would recover no problem, i would listen to your doc dude at the end of the day, take what you hear, here with a grain of salt when it comes to medical research lol. good luck

yeah it will recover in 3 months! people here are not giving references to medical research they are giving personal experience with pct! but go ahead and take ur docs advise but dont come crying when ur depressed and ur emotions are all over the place!

**rj90** · 05-05-2010, 11:17 PM

im not going to take my DR (his a GP) advice, im on this forum to learn and i no PCT is needed after a cycle, which i will be running. I tried explaining what PCT does and he was like im the DR. and he starts asking me what i do work etc (trying to say that this is his job who am i to tell him what medications do what). I knew he had no idea about AAS when i told him that i will be using 500mg a week of test a week. His exact response was "are you crazy" loll he also said dont do deca , "we give this to people who are about to die" not for joint pain. lol i couldnt believe what i was hearing and i really couldnt argue. I was talking to him for over 1 hour seriously. After the end of the consultation i learnt nothing, i just realises how important this forum can be in educating us AAS users. and will only use the DR. for bloodwork as previously stated. He also told me that he has a conference in a few days and will be asking other DR. about the use of clomid/nolvadex for PCT, and he goes to come back and see him and he talk to me about it!