My unusual situation

[juicenewbie]

Hello everyone,

I am writing because I have a bit of an unusual case. I am a transman (female-to-male). I was born female bodied and had a gender change to become a man. That is, I am a man among society and I appear 100% masculine, but my biological genetic make-up is that of a female.
Part of my transition is taking testosterone injections to obtain the desired masculine traits, and I have been on testosterone for over 3 years now. I take testosterone enanthate , my current dose is 300mg once every two weeks. This is nothing, and certainly not enough to gain the muscle I want. This dose has turned me into a guy but I want to be a man (I'm 25 years old). I need to increase my dose but I am not sure how much higher I can go before I get into the danger zone.

I've read that women do not require a testosterone stimulant in their PCT. This is for obvious reasons, but what about someone like me who wants as much testosterone as I can safely have in my system (including all the masculine traits/side effects)? Since I'm not worried about menstruation stopping or low estrogen levels post cycle, does this mean that I can take steroids without having to do PCT?

Since I'm already taking enanthate , should I stick to that and just increase my dose, or is it safe to combine injectables? (I do not want orals).

I've asked a lot but I do not know who to turn to without being judged or discriminated against. I will be grateful for any information.

Thank guys

[Ilivetolift83]

Interesting question... Bump

[HawaiianPride.]

If you have been prescribed on Testosterone treatment then no, PCT is not required assuming you are never coming off. As far as tapering your dosages for additional muscle growth, well I'm not sure how that would effect your biological genetics if it exceeds moderately supratherapeutic ranges.

Have you consulted your physician about this?

[Neevor]

I've asked a lot but I do not know who to turn to without being judged or discriminated against. I will be grateful for any information.

This isn't the place where you'll be discriminated against for who you are as long as that person isnt ignorant or rude lol.

I just don't know if there's gonna be a plethora of knowledge for you here considering your particular situation, fascinating as it is. I too would like to know what your physician has to say about this before saying much else. Maybe ask what happens if you take too much? And how much is too much? It does seem like your dose of testosterone is similar to what a guy would take on hormone therapy... curious as to why they have you on 300 every other week instead of 150 every week any idea?

When you say you are trying to get to be a man instead of just a guy... what do you mean there? You mean you want muscles? If so then lets talk about your diet and work out regimen too.

[juicenewbie]

If you have been prescribed on Testosterone treatment then no, PCT is not required assuming you are never coming off. As far as tapering your dosages for additional muscle growth, well I'm not sure how that would effect your biological genetics if it exceeds moderately supratherapeutic ranges.

Have you consulted your physician about this?

Hey, thanks for the reply. My endocrinologist prescribes me the T and that's right, I am never coming off. I haven't spoken to my endo about this yet because I have to be sure of what I want before I ask him for a higher dose. I've mentioned to him that I have been considering higher dose for the purpose of muscle growth and he did not turn down the idea completely.

Here's what I was thinking for a 6-week cycle:

during cycle: 500mg/week for 6 weeks
post cycle: 300mg/week until my next cycle

I'm going to present this to him and see what he says, fingers crossed.

[HawaiianPride.]

Yeah PCT can be ruled out completely.

Bring that proposal up to him and see what he says. Since you said he didn't turn down the idea all the way I'm sure things will pan out..

[juicenewbie]

This isn't the place where you'll be discriminated against for who you are as long as that person isnt ignorant or rude lol.

I just don't know if there's gonna be a plethora of knowledge for you here considering your particular situation, fascinating as it is. I too would like to know what your physician has to say about this before saying much else. Maybe ask what happens if you take too much? And how much is too much? It does seem like your dose of testosterone is similar to what a guy would take on hormone therapy... curious as to why they have you on 300 every other week instead of 150 every week any idea?

When you say you are trying to get to be a man instead of just a guy... what do you mean there? You mean you want muscles? If so then lets talk about your diet and work out regimen too.

That's exactly what I'd like to know, how much is too much. The one and only reason it's every other week is simply because I have to inject less often that way. I have the choice of how often I want to inject, do you think I should start doing them every week?

About the guy vs man thing: the best example I can think of is Craig David:

Here he is pr**********, a guy:

http://www.plong.com/MusicCatalog/C/...%20Average.jpg

And now here he is post-steroids , a man!:

http://www.sandrarose.com/images/craig-david-11-27.jpg

[HawaiianPride.]

Second link doesn't work.

[Neevor]

That's exactly what I'd like to know, how much is too much. The one and only reason it's every other week is simply because I have to inject less often that way. I have the choice of how often I want to inject, do you think I should start doing them every week?

About the guy vs man thing: the best example I can think of is Craig David:

Here he is pr**********, a guy:

http://www.plong.com/MusicCatalog/C/...%20Average.jpg

And now here he is post-steroids , a man!:

http://www.sandrarose.com/images/craig-david-11-27.jpg

You don't just get this way by taking steroids. He looks like that because he works at it in the gym.. No amount of steroids is gonna make you look like that if you just sit at home on your butt. How often are you training in the gym? What does your diet look like? What are your stats?

Height
Weight
Bodyfat%

[Neevor]

Second link doesn't work.

Are you sure? It worked for me.

[juicenewbie]

You don't just get this way by taking steroids . He looks like that because he works at it in the gym.. No amount of steroids is gonna make you look like that if you just sit at home on your butt. How often are you training in the gym? What does your diet look like? What are your stats?

Height
Weight
Bodyfat%

Height: 5'7
Weight: 185 lbs
Bodyfat %: don't know it but I know I still have about 40 lbs to lose

I train 4-5 days/week. I fast 2-3 days/week. On eating days I eat 1200-1600 cals.

[HawaiianPride.]

Are you sure? It worked for me.

Yeah, error screen. Oh well.

[juicenewbie]

Yeah, error screen. Oh well.

try this one, this is another pic of him on the same day:

http://www.sandrarose.com/images/cra...id-11-27-2.jpg

[HawaiianPride.]

Same error screen. Prob something to do with my internet settings.

[LGM]

same error screen. Prob something to do with my internet settings.

+1.....

[Neevor]

Height: 5'7
Weight: 185 lbs
Bodyfat %: don't know it but I know I still have about 40 lbs to lose

I train 4-5 days/week. I fast 2-3 days/week. On eating days I eat 1200-1600 cals.

Hmmm... why are you fasting.

My impression here is basically you are like a lot of the 40 yo guys who come on here asking how they can get ripped and how much more steroids they need to add to their therapy now that they are on hormone replacement to do it but they dont understand that if you cant get ripped on your current dose by correct dieting and training you wont get ripped on a higher dose.

NOBODY. Yes, NOBODY gets muscles by fasting. "eating days" is not a phrase in my vocabulary because that implies non-eating days.

You need to be doing 7 small meals a day every day and running in the morning when you wake up and lifting in the evening.

If you are still trying to lose 40lbs of fat, first off, if you were a regular 25 yo guy, no one in this forum would advise you to increase your testosterone . You need to drop the fat first and that comes through diet and excersize. Believe me, I dropped 40lbs of fat last year and 35 of it was without gear.

Learn the basics of training and diet (as an athletic man) in the diet and training forums on this site and then in time, once you put on 30 lbs of muscle and drop your fat to a reasonable percentage (12 or 13%) you can start wondering how much you need to increase your test. The test level you are at now is enough for anyone to make good gains in the gym if their training and diet are on point. You're actually at an advantage over most dudes cause your test levels are twice as high as a normal guys. No reason for you not to start making progress.

[TKO Performance]

Not eating near enough for starters. You should be eating about 3,000 calories a day every day. Combined with 3 days lifting and 3 days cardio you should be able to lose 2lbs. a week of fat and still build muscle. Right now it's impossible for you to build muscle. A car won't go with no gas in the tank, and your body won't grow with no building blocks.

What's your training routine like?

I think I would forgo higher doses of test for now. Stay on your current 300mg therapy. Higher doses could promote some fat gain, especially if diet is not in check. Get down to where you want to be fat wise, and then grow from there, possibly using higher doses of test in two to three years. You have to really have a firm foundation in training to make solid gains without putting your body at risk of injury, and that takes time.

I see no need for PCT with your situation. The purpose of PCT is to get a genetic male's natural test production back up to normal. Your natural test production, as a genetic female, is going to be very, very low. You aren't going to really get that level up much. If it ceased all together it still doesn't matter because you are already on replacement therapy.

[TTFU]

If your doctor doesn't want you on that much test, what will you do?

Most of us don't get approval from our doctor before cycling, lol.

Just do whatever you do safely.

[underworldmagic]

Yeah, error screen. Oh well.

You have to drag and drop the link into your address bar :- ) that worked for me.

[Neevor]

+1.....

Just google his picture. Theres pics of him skinny and of him big. The OP wants to look like the big version obviously..

[HawaiianPride.]

You have to drag and drop the link into your address bar :- ) that worked for me.

Thanks

[Neevor]

Not eating near enough for starters. You should be eating about 3,000 calories a day every day. Combined with 3 days lifting and 3 days cardio you should be able to lose 2lbs. a week of fat and still build muscle.

Lets not go perscribing losing fat and gaining muscle yet. This guy is a gym newbie from what I can tell and building muscle while dropping fat is not a newbie technique. It takes time to know your body that well. Regardless of if you are taking any other supplements you cant do this and maintain your gains without having a solid understanding of diet and training, which the OP apparently does not.

[juicenewbie]

Hmmm... why are you fasting.

My impression here is basically you are like a lot of the 40 yo guys who come on here asking how they can get ripped and how much more steroids they need to add to their therapy now that they are on hormone replacement to do it but they dont understand that if you cant get ripped on your current dose by correct dieting and training you wont get ripped on a higher dose.

NOBODY. Yes, NOBODY gets muscles by fasting. "eating days" is not a phrase in my vocabulary because that implies non-eating days.

You need to be doing 7 small meals a day every day and running in the morning when you wake up and lifting in the evening.

If you are still trying to lose 40lbs of fat, first off, if you were a regular 25 yo guy, no one in this forum would advise you to increase your testosterone . You need to drop the fat first and that comes through diet and excersize. Believe me, I dropped 40lbs of fat last year and 35 of it was without gear.

Learn the basics of training and diet (as an athletic man) in the diet and training forums on this site and then in time, once you put on 30 lbs of muscle and drop your fat to a reasonable percentage (12 or 13%) you can start wondering how much you need to increase your test. The test level you are at now is enough for anyone to make good gains in the gym if their training and diet are on point. You're actually at an advantage over most dudes cause your test levels are twice as high as a normal guys. No reason for you not to start making progress.

I don't think you understand my situation. Please carefully re-read my original post.

[Neevor]

I don't think you understand my situation. Please carefully re-read my original post.

I understand that you were born a woman and have been on hormone therapy to become a man for over 3 years. I understand that you are taking 300mg of test every two weeks (which is about 2 to 3 times what most mens bodies produce naturally). I understand that you are 25 years old, 5'7, 185lbs, and you feel you are 40lbs over weight. I understand that there are 2 to 3 days a week where you dont eat at all and other days you eat 1200 to 1600 calories. I understand that you want to have big muscles.

Am I missing something?

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to explain. Sorry if I haven't been clear. The amount of testosterone you are on is a lot by any normal mans standards (and certainly by any woman's) and you should be able to put on muscle with what you are taking. I was trying to help you understand how important your diet and training are to where you want to be. I don't think increasing your test is the answer for you right now.

How's that?

[juicenewbie]

OK guys here is the deal:

I did not mention this before but in the last 3 weeks, I have had two shots of 700mg EACH, separated by two weeks and.............

WOW OH WOWWWWWW I do not know what the **** I was waiting for to get on this train.

I am a machine, I am ALWAYS ON, I sleep 4-6 hours a night (I've tried and tried to sleep more but I just can't) I have been to the gym every single day for the past 8 days (and three of those days I went twice-before and after work), my recovery rate is UNBELIEVABLE, the gains I have made in the past 3 weeks exceed, THEY EXCEED ALL the gains I've made since I started working out seriously a year and a half ago. And do you want to know what else? I've dropped 15 lbs (to bring me down to 185 lbs) in 3 weeks STRICTLY by fasting 2-3 days/week and staying below BMR on eating days. Fasting has been EXTREMELY easy these past 3 weeks, I feel as though my appetite has been chopped in half. Every day I experience moments of physical and psychological euphoria, it feels like I'm rolling in ecstasy. I am living proof that you CAN be on steroids and build muscle AND drop fat at the same time, and when you think about it, why WOULDN'T you be able to do that?

I do not understand the reasoning behind "get to your ideal weight before thinking about steroids" what's the logic? Listen, I know for a FACT that I can lose these 40 lbs of fat while juicing. As a matter of fact, I can tell you right now that I will drop those pounds very easily BECAUSE of the testosterone .

[Princes_Gate]

Juicenewbie you are correct in a way.

Juice will get you in shape faster than working out naturally, people recommend you build a good solid base first through proper exercise and nutrition because otherwise you'll not be able to make or maintain gains without juice.

I imagine you probably don't mind being on for the rest of your life as you don't need worry about infertility, but be aware you can't be on for life or your cholesterol etc will be shit and you'll be asking for serious health problems.

I've used juice to get in shape myself so I'm not judging.

A better idea than fasting entirely would be to diet properly.

If you're 5'7 and 40lbs overweight you could prob drop cals to 1500 a day, I'd recommend 200g protein and the rest from fibrous carbs and fish oil. Don't fast entirely, it'll slow gains and your metabolism, and ultimately fat loss.

[BennyLom]

Something nobody has mentioned(!) is that you are shooting Test E every two weeks. You should shoot this drug AT LEAST once a week but preferebly twice a week! This will give you more stable blood levels and surely better results...

[juicenewbie]

Juicenewbie you are correct in a way.

Juice will get you in shape faster than working out naturally, people recommend you build a good solid base first through proper exercise and nutrition because otherwise you'll not be able to make or maintain gains without juice.

I imagine you probably don't mind being on for the rest of your life as you don't need worry about infertility, but be aware you can't be on for life or your cholesterol etc will be shit and you'll be asking for serious health problems.

I've used juice to get in shape myself so I'm not judging.

A better idea than fasting entirely would be to diet properly.

If you're 5'7 and 40lbs overweight you could prob drop cals to 1500 a day, I'd recommend 200g protein and the rest from fibrous carbs and fish oil. Don't fast entirely, it'll slow gains and your metabolism, and ultimately fat loss.

Hey, thanks for the input. Yea you know, that's one thing that's always worried me, the health problems of it. I know that I'll have to stop eventually or take breaks from it throughout my life, although I don't know how safe it is to keep going on and off like that.

[juicenewbie]

Something nobody has mentioned(!) is that you are shooting Test E every two weeks. You should shoot this drug AT LEAST once a week but preferebly twice a week! This will give you more stable blood levels and surely better results...

The last shot I had was on Monday August 9 and that one was 650mg. I was planning on having a shot of 600mg this coming Monday August 16. So instead of shooting 600 in one shot, I should have like 300 on Monday and the other 300 on let's say Thursday?

[PistolStarta]

Every 2.5 days you should inject. 3 would be better than all at once anyway.

[Neevor]

OK guys here is the deal:

I did not mention this before but in the last 3 weeks, I have had two shots of 700mg EACH, separated by two weeks and.............

WOW OH WOWWWWWW I do not know what the **** I was waiting for to get on this train.

I am a machine, I am ALWAYS ON, I sleep 4-6 hours a night (I've tried and tried to sleep more but I just can't) I have been to the gym every single day for the past 8 days (and three of those days I went twice-before and after work), my recovery rate is UNBELIEVABLE, the gains I have made in the past 3 weeks exceed, THEY EXCEED ALL the gains I've made since I started working out seriously a year and a half ago. And do you want to know what else? I've dropped 15 lbs (to bring me down to 185 lbs) in 3 weeks STRICTLY by fasting 2-3 days/week and staying below BMR on eating days. Fasting has been EXTREMELY easy these past 3 weeks, I feel as though my appetite has been chopped in half. Every day I experience moments of physical and psychological euphoria, it feels like I'm rolling in ecstasy. I am living proof that you CAN be on steroids and build muscle AND drop fat at the same time, and when you think about it, why WOULDN'T you be able to do that?

I do not understand the reasoning behind "get to your ideal weight before thinking about steroids" what's the logic? Listen, I know for a FACT that I can lose these 40 lbs of fat while juicing. As a matter of fact, I can tell you right now that I will drop those pounds very easily BECAUSE of the testosterone.

IMO you are moving too fast to fully understand the ramifications of your actions here.

That high a dosage at that long of intervals could cause all sorts of issues including regrowth of breast tissue and who knows what else. You should be taking it extra slow considering your situation and the relatively small amount of info on the subject. Not just jumping in head first. Your weight and diet along with your dosage tell me you need to learn a lot more but I'm not giving advice to someone who doesn't wanna take the time to learn about this stuff. Good luck, I'm out on this thread.

[TKO Performance]

That is a good point. One side effect of being on that much test is that some of it will aromatize to estrogen. This is why men get gynomastia, or less politely put: bitch tits. Without some Letro on hand, or running an AI you run this risk.

Another issue is that some of the test will convert to DHT which can cause hair loss (not a huge deal), but it can also cause a slowdown or shutdown of collagen synthesis, which can lead to joint and connective tissue damage. Think that's no big deal? Try being hampered by injury for months and not able to lift. It sucks. I'm just starting to come out of it myself (not steroid related).

You are definitely moving too fast. You need to slow down and learn, or else you risk injury and other permanent health issues. I don't agree that you can't gain muscle and lose fat as a newbie. What is a better time to learn? It takes a month or two to dial in your diet once you know what you are doing, but all you really have to do is journal your diet and adjust as necessary. I also think 1,500 calories a day is way, way too low. On that few calories you will lose 60% muscle to 40% fat. You'll lose weight, but it won't all be fat. You need at least 2,500 a day, and more than likely 3,000. You have to burn at least 600 calories a day from exercise six days a week, but if you do that I guarantee that you can lose 2lbs. of fat a day WITHOUT any drugs.

[juicenewbie]

alright, I will shoot 200mg every 2.5 days, that will bring me to 600mg/week. I have read all of your input and am appreciative. I will slow down because I too get the feeling that I am moving too quickly with something I do not know enough about.

I have been seduced by Trenbolone Acetate. Last night I put together a test enanthate and tren acetate cycle only to read on forums afterwards that a first cycle should always be a test alone. And you know what? I've already seen AMAZING results on just the test. So I'ma slow my roll. thanks for all the info guys.

[Bonaparte]

That is a good point. One side effect of being on that much test is that some of it will aromatize to estrogen. This is why men get gynomastia, or less politely put: bitch tits. Without some Letro on hand, or running an AI you run this risk.

Gyno shouldn't be an issue, since he likely got the mammary glands removed during the breast removal (?) surgery. Am I correct, OP?

[juicenewbie]

Gyno shouldn't be an issue, since he likely got the mammary glands removed during the breast removal (?) surgery. Am I correct, OP?

that's exactly right.

[dec11]

Every 2.5 days you should inject. 3 would be better than all at once anyway.

3.5 would be adequate

[juicenewbie]

3.5 would be adequate

just adequate? what would be optimal?

[dec11]

just adequate? what would be optimal?

3.5 days apart. some recently have been advocating ED injects of long ester but i personally think its unness bullshit, i meant tht e2.5d is not ness, e3.5d is fine

[TKO Performance]

Gyno shouldn't be an issue, since he likely got the mammary glands removed during the breast removal (?) surgery. Am I correct, OP?

Good point, but, men don't have mammary glands and still get gyno. Since he is now running enough test to be a man couldn't he still have the gyno side effect? Also, I have heard of men who have had gyno surgically corrected and gotten it again. I think some are super prone to it.

[Bonaparte]

Good point, but, men don't have mammary glands and still get gyno. Since he is now running enough test to be a man couldn't he still have the gyno side effect? Also, I have heard of men who have had gyno surgically corrected and gotten it again. I think some are super prone to it.

We do have mammary glands. What do you think they try to remove during a gyno surgery? Guys can only get it again afterward if the surgeon ****ed up and didn't remove the entire thing.