cycling for pennies by Doggcrap

[xxxl83]

I'm sure some of you have seen this before but I'd like to get some of your thoughts on this.

xxxl83
CYCLING FOR PENNIES
by Dogg (not his real name--he just likes his anonymity) and Jason Meuller

The genesis for this article was a thread on one of the smaller bodybuilding boards titled Cycling for Pennies. Written by Dogg (he is known by his prior "hardcore" writings fame), his one post eventually inspired him to write over 25 pages of material, outlining his philosophies on a wide range of bodybuilding topics. He has garnered a loyal following directly because he was writing about subjects seven years ago that have became staples in bodybuilding today. What follows is a drastically pared down version, briefly touching upon some of the many issues he discussed in his various posts. It’s Dogg’s intention to use this article as an introduction to a series of articles he will write for AE, discussing in much greater details some of the points addressed here. Meuller: As Dogg and I have a lot of the same ideas, he asked me to interject some of my thoughts in these articles along with his.

Dogg: Without sounding cocky I am a very advanced bodybuilder down here in
San Diego--cruising at 285lbs or so and going up over 300 this year. I came from a very, very hard gaining and skinny genetic structure (140lbs about 10 years ago) so gains have never come easy and I didn’t start super supplements until I was 225 clean (took me 6 years). (I use food as my chief anabolic ).

What I am amazed at is the number of 180 to 220lb bodybuilders on the net who spend ungodly amounts of money and use so many different exotic compounds thinking that it is the end all super stack of all stacks. And they take huge, huge risks in trying to acquire these drugs. I have had an abundance of pro and top amateur friends to gain the knowledge that pretty much these top people in the sport are blasting high amounts of test as the base drug in the offseason to put on pro size with mostly one (sometimes two) other compounds (usually fina, or equipoise or some other non exotic drug and GH if it can be afforded). I firmly believe you will gain 2 times the amount of muscle off of 2 grams of test either alone or with another compound than having some kind of exotic stack involving 3 to 6 exotic hard to get expensive compounds. The receptor site theories have proven to be bunk. The cheapest and best stack I can think of anyone doing to put on major size is a gram or two of test with arimidex to keep water off with fina 75 to 150mg every other day for 4 weeks --then 2 to 3 weeks of cruising (test at 300-400mg and clomid at 5 (day one), 4(day two), 3(day three),then 2 every day for 2 weeks)--and then back on everything full again (maybe equipoise used instead of fina this
time) for 4 weeks (then 2 to 3 weeks cruising again etc etc)---if you can’t gain gobs of muscle on that nothing exotic (masteron , etc etc etc) surely isn’t going to do it for you. Testosterone is always the base for any gaining cycle of any pro friend I’ve had or top people with whom I talked with off record. I have never even been over 1000mg of test myself (yet) but I see guys spending and using 10 times the amount I do weighing 70lbs less. I think there is a major problem when the easiest, cheapest and most potent things are right in front of people and they are off searching for substance B-737
undecylate in bulgaria.

Meuller: All too often we’ve seen 180-220 lbs bodybuilders obsessed with some irrelevant minutiae of bodybuilding, arguing the merits of using anavar stacked with creatine or how dosages of primobolan should be divided up in order to maximize size. Just the other day in the gym, I heard two wannabe bodybuilders actually discussing the merits of using creatine stacked with various fruit juices. Now admittedly, I train at 24 Hour Fitness, not the most hardcore gym on the planet, but I literally had to laugh out loud listening to these two idiots taking each other incredibly seriously over an issue that has about as much relevance to the gaining of lean body mass as what kind of underwear I choose to put on prior to my foray into the gym. I know that both Dogg and myself receive countless emails from bodybuilders looking for that one special compound, you know the one I mean, the secret steroid that all the pros are using and no one else seems to be able to get their hands on. The steroid that if only I could manage to obtain, I’d be kicking Coleman’s ass all over the Olympia stage in no time. There is a major problem when the cheapest, easiest, and most potent drugs are widely available and bodybuilders are blaming their lack of success on everything but their food intake, work ethic in the gym, or cycles that wouldn’t make my girlfriend grow.

Perhaps the biggest secret in bodybuilding is that there are no secrets. There are no secret stacks, there are no secret drugs, the amateurs and pros that we see in Flex and other magazines are using the same drugs that are readily available to you or I. Ask any top amateur or pro what his favorite steroid is and you’ll undoubtedly get the same answer from everyone: TESTOSTERONE!! 2 grams of test a week is going to put size on you unlike anything else, I don’t care how exotic or expensive. You show me a rare DDR steroid that supposedly is 50X as anabolic as testosterone and runs $600 per bottle and I’ll show you a GC/MS assay of cheap steroids you could pick up in Mexico for $20. Anavar? A drug I put my girlfriend on if she wants to gain a few pounds of muscle. Primobolan? A steroid I’d give to my kid if he had the flu. Ok, these drugs may have their place in a bridging cycle, but believe me, no bodybuilder attempting to gain brutal size need to concern himself with mass cycles containing impotent steroids like anavar and primobolan.

Dogg: I am of the opinion that people should use the lowest dosages possible that will keep them gaining. If a newbie bodybuilder starts off with 2 grams of T every week and a high dose of fina etc, etc and eventually taps out on that where is he going to go? 4000 a week? I believe one should make their way up 750, to 1000 to 1200 to 1500 and so on slowly thru cycles. I am an advocate of the 4 week on 2 week cruising (then back on) method not because of receptor site saturation but due to 3 very important (to me) factors...

1) I lift extremely heavy and I push the limits for 4 weeks and I just need 2 weeks to kind of regroup myself and then go balls to the wall again with poundages for the next 4 weeks

2)Same with food intake-I religiously get in 500 to 600 grams of protein and I have to give myself a little break for those 2 weeks (I only go down to
400grams or so) or I'll go crazy

3) I think it’s of utmost importance to keep yourself regulated HPTA-wise. If
your endogenous test levels diminish due to constant months of high androgens
when you do finally come off those size gains fly out the door...if you can
keep your endo test somewhat normal you wont get the huge problems that keep
most bodybuilders bouncing up and down in bodyweight like yo-yo's..namely
getting colds and flu's/injuries/depression/lack of aggression and appetite
(which usually means test to estrogen ratio out of whack)...During the
cruising period the 300-400mg of test will keep you from losing any muscle at
all and the clomid and arimidex will get you as close (via 2 different
routes) to homeostasis as possible.

Meuller: Repeat-- We are not advocating that a newbie run out and start
injecting himself with 2 grams of testosterone per week in an attempt to gain
as much size as possible? Let me quantify what we are trying to say. At
some point, 2 grams a week of testosterone may become a necessity as you
reach the upper limits of size your body will grow on bodybuilding drugs.
Just as we all have a natural limit to how big we can get naturally, we also
have a limit to how big we can get using performance enhancing drugs. You
look at bodybuilders like Ruhl, Yates, or Coleman and you’re seeing men who
have virtually maxed out their ability to add more muscle. Did Dorian’s
physique change noticeably from year to year during his last several
Olympias? Has Coleman’s? Sure, perhaps they come in a little tighter,
Coleman may fluctuate 10 lbs in bodyweight from year to year, but
realistically, these guys reached their genetic limit to add muscle long ago.
Now the massive amounts of drugs they take are simply to maintain the
incredible amounts of LBM they have accrued over years of training, eating,
and juicing. And this article isn’t being written for the Yates, Colemans,
or Ruhls of the bodybuilding world, I seriously doubt they’re coming to AE
for advice. This article is written for you, the aspiring bodybuilder,
someone who wants to gain as much muscle as quickly as possible but doesn’t
know how. Let’s say you’re an aspiring bodybuilder with good genetics and
want to start your first cycle. If you start out at 2000 mg of test a week
with other assorted steroids, where are you going to go from there when you
eventually stop growing. You should seek to start with as low
of an effective dose as possible and work your way up, always bearing in mind
that your cycle is probably the last reason why you’re not growing. You show
me a 180 lb bodybuilder that’s not growing on 750 mg of test a week and 50 mg
of methandrostenolone per day and I’ll show you someone who isn’t eating or
training correctly unless he’s 4’11”.

A good starting dose for a newbie is in the range of 750-800 mg of
testosterone per week, stacked with another steroid like methandrostenolone
(50 mg/day in divided doses), trenbolone acetate (75 mg ED), or even an old
standby like deca (600 mg/week). Use of an anti-aromatase like Arimidex is a
must. As Dogg advocates, steroid cycles are times during which your body must
be pushed to its limits. All too often you’ll see so-called bodybuilders
(bodybuilders in their own mind really) begin a cycle and maintain the same
kind of eating and training habits they adhered to pre-cycle. Will they
gain muscle? Most definitely, several double-blind medical studies have
proven that moderate dosages of testosterone will add small amounts of LBM
and cause a slight decrease in body fat without any change in diet or
exercise programs. But then again, that’s not really bodybuilding now is it?
Bodybuilding is an attempt to build yourself up to what you consider to be a
physical ideal, and for more AE readers than not, that means brutally huge
size. Brutally huge size is the result of two primary actions 1) brutal
workouts and 2) a brutal eating schedule. Steroids assist in both of these
endeavors, allowing you to train harder in the gym and increasing appetite so
one can consume more food. There is also a limit to how much of this the
psyche and body can take, regardless of how tough you are mentally or how
genetically gifted you may be. My workout partner and I have been training
balls to the wall for the past 2 months with the singular goal of my reaching
310 lbs. We agreed that once I reached this weight, we would take 5 days off
from the gym and do nothing but rest as much as our respective schedules will
allow. In all seriousness, we both breathed a sigh of relief when I stepped
on the scale Monday night and it read 312 lbs, because we were both very
nearly at our breaking point. We agreed to finish out the week as planned (I
didn’t expect to break 310 until Thursday or Friday) and then take all of
next week off. You’re seeing more and more top bodybuilding gurus advocate
training cycles in this fashion, Dogg advocates 4 week training cycles,
Trevor Smith from Nuclear advocates 6 week, and I advocate 8 week cycles.
Doggs 4 week training cycle involves cruising for 2 weeks after the initial
four weeks (as discussed above) to get the HPTA back in check and then back
on full bore again. You can either keep doing that indefinitely or stop the
4+2 regimen whenever you deem in necessary. Regardless of whether it’s
4+4, 6, or 8 weeks, at some point your body needs a break when you’re doing
everything right in and out of the gym.

One must temper their newfound strength and appetite with the wisdom to apply
them properly, we’re certainly not advocating that one lift weights to the
point of injury or that an endomorph stuff themselves with everything in
sight. Both Dogg and I are major advocates of stretching prior to working
out and MORE IMPORTANTLY STRETCHING TO THE POINT OF THRESHOLDS AFTER working out. I (Meuller) even more so after having torn a triceps and having 200 cc’s of pus removed from a bicep in May of this year. At a bodyweight of over 310 lbs, I am the very definition of “muscle-bound” and find it very difficult to perform actions that most people take for granted (like tying my shoes, and I’m not joking). As such, I am routinely stretched every week by another trainer to try and maintain some modicum of flexibility, and stretch prior to and while working out to avoid further injuries (or exacerbate the ones I currently have). I happily take my hat off to Dogg and give credit where credit is due, the guy is an amazing trainer and showed a young and cocky
Jason Meuller what hardcore was really all about back in ’94. He believes like Jon Parillo did, that "extreme stretching" directly after a bodypart is trained is key for recuperation, recovery, and a primer for growth via fascial stretching and maybe even hyperplasia (more on that in a future article). He’s outlined a series of stretches that he finds extremely effective at both avoiding injuries and adding size during cycles. These
includes the weights he uses, which readers will obviously have to adjust (more than likely down) according to their own strength levels. Every extreme stretch is done right after that body part has been trained.

Chest

Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air--first 10 seconds
drop down into deepest stretch and then next 50 seconds really push the
stretch (this really, really hurts) but do it faithfully and come back and
post on the AE message board in 4 weeks and tell me if your chest isn't much
fuller and rounder

Triceps

Seated on a flat bench-my back up against the barbell---75lb dumbbell in my
hand behind my head (like in an overhead dumbbell extension)--sink dumbbell
down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds
slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbbell down with the back of my head

Shoulders

This one is tough to describe--put barbell in squat rack shoulder
height--face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on
bottom of bar)---walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the
stretch gets painful--then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60
seconds

Biceps

Just like the above position but hold barbell palms down now (hands on top of
bar)--sink down in a squatting position first and if you can hack it into a
kneeling position and then if you can hack that sink your butt down--60
seconds--I cannot make it 60 seconds-- I get to about 45—it’s too painful--if
you can make it 60 seconds you are either inhuman or you need to raise the
bar up another rung

Back

Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb
dumbbell from our waist and hung on the widest chinup bar (with wrist straps)
to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes
27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I
pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and it’s
way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it

Hamstrings

Either leg up on a high barbell holding my toe and trying to force my leg
straight with my free hand for an excruciating painful 60 seconds

Quads

Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high --grip it and simultaneously
sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat
underneath it while going up on your toes. Then straighten your arms and lean
as far back as you can---60 seconds and if this one doesn't make you hate my
guts and bring tears to your eyes nothing will---do this one faithfully and
tell me in 4 weeks if your quads don’t look a lot different than they used to Calves
My weak body part that I couldn’t get up too par until 2 years ago when I
finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one
set twice a week too). I don’t need to stretch calves after because when I do
calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full
stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one
thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom
thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely
unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and want to give up at about 7
reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat
or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this and caught up to
the rest of me thank God.

If you doubt the extra muscle growth possible with stretching I urge you
to research hyperplasia (and the bird wing stretching protocols) where time X
stretch X weight induced incredible hyperplasia. Our stretching is done under
much lower time periods but fascial stretching and the possibility of induced
hyperplasia cant be ignored. I’ve had too many people write me or tell me in
person that the "extreme stretching" has dramatically changed their physique
to ever doubt its virtues.

At this point, you may be asking yourself, why the title Cycling for Pennies? As future articles in this series will detail, success in this sport is more about dedication, willpower, knowledge, and application than it is incredibly expensive drug cycles. Yes, it cannot be denied that as one climbs the rungs of bodybuilding success that more and more expensive compounds must be used to level the playing field (most notably GH), but GH is a drug best utilized by those who’ve already made significant progress in the sport. For the beginning or intermediate level bodybuilder, the actual expense of the drugs should be minimal. It’s our hope that we can provide you with a series of articles showing you how to maximize gains in the gym with a bare minimum of expense. Stay tuned.



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ions on this.

[KunipshunFit]

ok just wanted to say i've made it through half...and it looks good....

wish those html tags were outta there, fucks up my reading

I'll read the rest lata...just posting to bump it, and let me remember it's location

lata

K'fit

[iluvttokyo]

really a great article , loved it ,going to try these stretches and prob incorporate some of the ideas into my regime. bump it .. Oh yea love the part about guys blaming the steriods for not growing. how bout lifting right and eating, and sleeping right. thats the best steriod

[Terinox]

I also haven't read the whole thing yet, it's DAMN long, but it's also DAMN good, looking forward to reading more soon, when I get some more free time

[Lift Chief]

"A good starting dose for a newbie is in the range of 750-800 mg of
testosterone per week, stacked with another steroid like methandrostenolone
(50 mg/day in divided doses), trenbolone acetate (75 mg ED), or even an old
standby like deca (600 mg/week)."

Damn... that is some questionable advice IMO.

[xxxl83]

LC,

Yeah I know some of the things that they recommend are pretty controversial and, some of it goes against convetional AAS wisdom but,
on the other hand some of what they are saying makes sense (regulating the htpa) just the methods (2 week cruising period)seem kind of strange and I'm not 100% sure it'll work.

I'd like to hear what some of the AR mods and vets have to say on the subject.

xxxl83

[RON]

Originally posted by KunipshunFit
wish those html tags were outta there, fucks up my reading
K'fit

Better


I see some merit in a lot of what he says but his theory of hitting different receptors being bull shit is kinda hard for me to swallow. plus everyone has a different reaction to Anabolic . there is no one stack for everyone.

He also advocates using a great amount of androgens. Sure that will make you grow but they are harsh on your body. I think by adding some more anabolic compounds you can still get the gains without the harshness of an all androgenic cycle.

[Leroy Brown]

I like the simplicity of his stacks: test + dbol , or fina, or deca .

One thing to realize about the cruise periods, you'll still be shut down. He's just trying to juice year round without becoming completely shut down. Whether that would work or not, I don't know.

[xxxl83]

I'd like to know if anyone has used this type of cycle and what the results of the cycle and post cycle were.

xxxl83

[Leroy Brown]

check the thread at animalkits.be. A few people there have done it.

[Rickson]

I like most of what he has to say but like Ron I think everyone needs through time and experimentation to find what works best for them. If everything worked the same for every person we wouldn't need a board we could just put up one post saying this is the stack everyone should use. We all know it doesn't work that way. Well worth the read though in my opinion.

[mmaximus25]

Originally posted by Rickson
I like most of what he has to say but like Ron I think everyone needs through time and experimentation to find what works best for them. If everything worked the same for every person we wouldn't need a board we could just put up one post saying this is the stack everyone should use. We all know it doesn't work that way. Well worth the read though in my opinion.

Bump, for the article and the promotion of self-learning and experimentation

I believe self-exploration is the only way to find your true potential with a tool like AS and finding your optimum dose is always going to be to your benefit. I agree with the meat and potatoes analogy. Sticking to the basics works for me and mine are deca , enanthate , d-bol, and propionate .
It doesn't matter who you are 1g of test a week and you'll grow... I know this but... there is an optimum and high dose for each individual. The highest I've gone per not added together has been a gram. In my opinion and kind of what one bro hit on is the friggin diet and training... 2g of test and in taking 2000 cals your just wasting the test. And hopefully I don’t offend anyone but I can’t stand those guys that just do a cycle to get ready for summer or some shit like that and never learn about what their putting in their body. AS is a powerful tool and I agree with most of the article and it is honest. You can’t say it isn't. Their not spewing loads of crap. For year long cyclers I thought all of us stay on but either high and low in mgs or from anabolic to androgenic always using a low test as a bridge or an anabolic with a long ester. The bridge would be equal to the time that some guys take off.

I also believe in receptor mapping... where you find your optimum dose for growth before intolerable side effects. (Ex. deca optimum is 400mg a week for me high is 800 with tolerable sides. over a gram and I'm sensitive to things like cranberry juice.) There is also a type of mapping where you find the doses that match in comparison to gains. The one problem with finding this comparison in my opinion is you have to use calories as your control, and now I believe that when in taking high amounts of androgens you have to match the increase with calories (good of coarse)… In simple terms if the same calorie is kept then your optimum and high doses will yield the same growth, but if calories are raised higher when in taking the higher amount of androgen your gains will be greater than the other. Solely due to nutrient provided for muscle hypertrophy and upon completed recovery. (training is left out, but I'm starting to think maybe some don't train hard enough.) my 2 cents

[mmaximus25]

One more thing... Not all of us want to be 275lbs. Which wasn't really touched on but another thing to add and those guys should know but multiple diet downs a year hurt your growth severely. And there are some 200-225 pounder's that like where they are...
And for training techniques... Find two or three that work for you and that’s it. Hopefully with a little innovation you'll have a personalized technique... In short... when beginning you read about training, then you move on to try different styles, and finally manipulate until it becomes yours... don’t be so much the follower... once schools out... make training and nutrition your own...

[Juicifer]

i feel enlightened

[Ozzy]

ahhhhh Doggcrap ! I wonder why he uses Doggcrapp for his name ?

[Cycleon]

definitely need to do that for my chest

[sd11]

I've read the enitre thread over on animals board and definitely suggest every1 takes a look if you have the time.

[bigwillystyle]

ive incorparated some of his streches into my workouts and i am pleased
not usally as sore the next day...and i think my chest may be getting wider.

bump

damn good artical

[FKITLETSGO]

yes im only 16 but finally someone agrees i should keep taking 2g a week test...but damn now i have to add tren also...oh well..keep pumping

[ColdSore]

veru good read...wanted to bump this for some that havent seen it....and something im thinking about doing...

[ColdSore]

does anyone know where i can find more of his articles...they mention "AE"...but i dont know what board nor website that is...a pm would be nice to in case i dont see it...

[Da Bull]

does anyone know where i can find more of his articles...they mention "AE"...but i dont know what board nor website that is...a pm would be nice to in case i dont see it...

Ask swellin...he bought into this dog crap!!

[barbarian]

Ask swellin...he bought into this dog crap!!

[bad_man]

anabolicextreme.com

[madmaniac]

i dont think hes concerned with health one bit. he recommends to lift as heavy as you can, do lots of drugs, and eat as much as you can. that program doesnt really add up to living for a long time. it does however add up to you becoming one big mother ****er.

i followed his lifting routine and liked it very much. you need a partner for it to be 100% effective though. right now i dont have a partner. if i did i would be doing doggcrapp style.

his stretching is awesome. it made my chest look bigger and fuller.

[Russ616]

Ask swellin...he bought into this dog crap!!

This article goes against what alot of us at AR preach.
1. 4wks on and 2wks off. COME ON We would never recommend that. What ever happened to steady blood levels. And two weeks doesn't even give you enough time to start clomid therapy. Most starting times are 2 to 3wks. ( and no mention of Nolva in the entire article )
2. 750-800mgs of test a wk for a beginner. I am on my third cycle and only taking 600mgs. I'll probably gain 25-30lbs off this cycle like I did my last. What 30lbs isn't good enough. Maybe My 4th cycle I will take 800mgs.
3. Recommending not to take primo or anavar . Anavar is an awesome compound for mass or cutting. We all don't grow on the same shet...
4. And newbies should stack their test with tren ... I don't recommend tren for a first or second time user, neither does anyone else...
5. And who is this guy to say that 2000mgs of test a week is were the true body builders grow. Maybe for him at 312lbs but what about me, I am 180-85lbs, should I take the same as him...

I really didn't like anything about this article accept for the stretching part. He recommends insane amounts of gear for newbies, knocks on good steroids , and recommends cruising peroids of training hard and then not, then take off 5 days , then come back and start up again. That just doesn't sound normal to me. Does anyone agree?

[detroit]

Thought it was a good read. But i know for me, Id probably be one zitty SOB on the 2 week crusing period though. I always break out when my test levels fall.

[tmeoe]

This article goes against what alot of us at AR preach.
1. 4wks on and 2wks off. COME ON We would never recommend that. What ever happened to steady blood levels. And two weeks doesn't even give you enough time to start clomid therapy. Most starting times are 2 to 3wks. ( and no mention of Nolva in the entire article )
2. 750-800mgs of test a wk for a beginner. I am on my third cycle and only taking 600mgs. I'll probably gain 25-30lbs off this cycle like I did my last. What 30lbs isn't good enough. Maybe My 4th cycle I will take 800mgs.
3. Recommending not to take primo or anavar . Anavar is an awesome compound for mass or cutting. We all don't grow on the same shet...
4. And newbies should stack their test with tren ... I don't recommend tren for a first or second time user, neither does anyone else...
5. And who is this guy to say that 2000mgs of test a week is were the true body builders grow. Maybe for him at 312lbs but what about me, I am 180-85lbs, should I take the same as him...

I really didn't like anything about this article accept for the stretching part. He recommends insane amounts of gear for newbies, knocks on good steroids, and recommends cruising peroids of training hard and then not, then take off 5 days , then come back and start up again. That just doesn't sound normal to me. Does anyone agree?

This is very true, much of what he has to say about anabolics i just cannot agree with from personal experience. At 800mgs test and 150mgs fina eod I would be a zitty bald big mother****er, and that is certainly not what i want.

I will say however, if you get to read his training articles along with the stretching it is very effective. Although, we preach this anyway, heavy weight low reps, good form, repeat.

I know BDTR is paying for his services right now and maybe someone with that much experience and other bodybuilders who really, really know the science of everything can benefit from this. But for your average person i just cannot agree on many of his points.

I hope newbies don't read this and get the wrong idea.

[ColdSore]

i think some of you read this the wrong way...the way i read it was...yeah, hes not 100% right, but when it comes down to it he recomends a "Meat and potatoes" style of routine and AAS cycle...

And i dissagree when you say that he recomends alot of AAS to grow...say your on 1g of test a week...thats 1000mg...but alot of you run **** like this:
500mg test
400mg deca
30mg d-bol...

thats over a gram of componds right there...why is it any harder to just run 1 gram of test???

I dont agree with how he cycles with clomid in the off weeks, but you could modify it...heres what im looking at doing...

1-8 1000mg test
8-12 400-500mg test
12-20 1000mg test
20-24 100mg test prop ed...

this way you can jump right into pct...

also...he dosnt use nolva, only arimidex ...well...neither do i, i have it on hand, but i dont use it, and never have except in pct...

The bottom line is this guy recomends a heavy routine, big eating, and only useing basic componds...period...thats what it takes to grow IMO...and i for one have gotten away from this, and i think i need to get back...

so im gonna do it next...ill let you guys know how it goes

[Doggcrapp]

Guys that article was written 3.5 years ago--it wasnt only me it was 50% Jason Meullar and it was written and taken out of context from a reply I did to some advanced lifters who were using large amounts and bludgeoning themselves year round--I gave them alternative means--half the dose they were already using and use blasting and cruising dosages....that is not my outline for a guy weighing 180 who wants to do 2 cycles a year--I believe that was originally written back in December of 2001 and later Jason Meullar printed it and also added his comments---that one article and the cuts and pastes all around the internet have been a pain in my ass for years now--but what do you do when your talking about a 310lb superheavyweight top amateur in the country and a 155lb guy who is trying to get to 175lbs reads it. Id like that to be taken down myself but its not going to happen. Hell i left a post for a 350lb obese guy on how to get himself down to about 230lbs back in the day, thank god some 175lb kid didnt copy and paste that all over the net as Doggcrapps diet

[ColdSore]

Guys that article was written 3.5 years ago--it wasnt only me it was 50% Jason Meullar and it was written and taken out of context from a reply I did to some advanced lifters who were using large amounts and bludgeoning themselves year round--I gave them alternative means--half the dose they were already using and use blasting and cruising dosages....that is not my outline for a guy weighing 180 who wants to do 2 cycles a year--I believe that was originally written back in December of 2001 and later Jason Meullar printed it and also added his comments---that one article and the cuts and pastes all around the internet have been a pain in my ass for years now--but what do you do when your talking about a 310lb superheavyweight top amateur in the country and a 155lb guy who is trying to get to 175lbs reads it. Id like that to be taken down myself but its not going to happen. Hell i left a post for a 350lb obese guy on how to get himself down to about 230lbs back in the day, thank god some 175lb kid didnt copy and paste that all over the net as Doggcrapps diet

im going to the gym now...but check your pm's later...very interested in this!

[the big guy]

Do you use short esters or long ester for the blasting and cruising, I don't see y u would use long esters..

[Swifto]

Originally this thread started on:

02-14-2003, 07:27 PM

Please dont bump old threads. Start a new one or do a search.

[perfectbeast2001]

Do you use short esters or long ester for the blasting and cruising, I don't see y u would use long esters..

something tells me that no one is going to leap out of a smoking delorean car to answer your question from 2004.
Old thread dude!!
Welcome aboard though!

[the big guy]

Thank for the welcome, I know it older than dirt..lol but a good thread and I train DC. Seen this thread and was just a wondering.lol

[Booz]

Do you use short esters or long ester for the blasting and cruising, I don't see y u would use long esters..

dont bump old threads....................