go all out for first cycle...or start off easy?

**sixey** · 10-12-2010, 02:28 PM

so i am planning on starting my first pinning cycle this coming monday. i have been cutting and cutting to get nice and lean before i start the test, am sub %12, my guess is somewhere around %10-11 (since less bodyfat helps with estro related sides). just running Test Prop, with 60mg proviron ED and aromasin should i need it (i am hoping that i will not have estro issues and that the proviron will help, but never the less i have enough aromasin should the need arise)

but heres where i am still confused: some guys say that you should really blast your first cycle since you have the potential for the best gains. im not sure if this is "broscience" or not. however there is also the other half which say that there is no need to start off at 500mg of test a week on your first cycle. if i am worried about potential sides like acne, would taking 350mg a wk (50mg ed) make a difference as opposed to 525mg a week (75mg ed)???

it makes sense to me that for a first time, it may be wise to start off lower to reduce the potential for sides and for the reason that i may make awesome gains at 350mg a week rather than 500+mg.

what are your thoughts guys?

**Knockout_Power** · 10-12-2010, 03:31 PM

First cycle is always best to start off simple. 350/wk of prop is just fine. Keep in mind that the average beginner dose is 4-500mg/wk of a long esterred test like E or C. Prop contains more test per mL so even at 350, you are getting the same if not more test than E or C @ 400.

While I usually dont advocate MORE MORE MORE... I do think you may be happier with a slightly higher dose, say 125 EOD.

Im not sure who told you contrary, but blasting is never for a beginner. Learn how your body reacts and how to treat it should something not go as planned. Its good you have your PCT and AI on hand

good luck, keep us posted.

-KP

**baseline_9** · 10-12-2010, 03:46 PM

IMO you will do well on either 350 or 525

Obviously 525 will produce more gains

If i were you, i would either;

Run at 525 for 6-8 weeks

Run at 350 for 8-10 weeks (if u can manage the ED shots)

IMO an AI should be run on cycle even of at a minimal dose, why wait for a problem ocur when you could run the AI from the start as your health insurance

IMO recovery is the most important thing when cycling AAS, shorter cycles, faster recovery, HCG throught the cycle, best PCT available (see Swiftos stickie in the PCT section and his QandA thread for good PCT info)

So i would prefer to run at a higher dose with an AI for peace of mind for a shorter period

**stpete** · 10-12-2010, 03:49 PM

Keep it nice and simple w/ some test e or cyp like Knockout suggested....For your first cycle prop could turn you against juice for the rest of your life. I love the prop and i can handle the pain that comes along w/ it. But i wouldn't tell a first timer to use it. Just a nice 500mg of test e ew will do you good. Plus, you only have to make 2 injections per week. You still don't know how you're going to react to inserting a needle into your body. I know it sounds easy ( and after time it is easy), but when it comes time to do it some people get nervous as hell. So take that into consideration. Not trying to talk you out of prop, just saying...Good luck!

**baseline_9** · 10-12-2010, 04:02 PM

Would agree that TP could put u off gear for life

Im running it now and trust me bro it ante fun

I like it because it increases recovery ability (shorter cycles)

**vettewreck** · 10-12-2010, 04:16 PM

I dunno about starting first cycle with test prop, but if thats your only option fine. Id suggest test-e at 500mg/wk. 250mg on Monday and 250mg on thursdays for 10 weeks with 50mg proviron ed. Keep it simple for the simple reason of seeing how your body responds to chemicals.

**MACHINE5150** · 10-12-2010, 04:28 PM

as already stated.. don't do prop your first cycle.. get some test e and run it 500mg a week..

Regarding the proviron .. i am running 100mg ED on 600mg test E and 400mg Deca and can tell you after two weeks its AI properties are pretty much unnoticeable.. if existent at all.. no need to run an AI if you do not need it.. a little bit of estrogen in your system is a good thing.. wait to see if you need it..

**sixey** · 10-12-2010, 05:24 PM

thanks for all the feedback guys!

-as far as running the prop for my first cycle as opposed to the normal test-e for first cycle i have several reasons. for my first time i don't want to do a long cycle that test-e necessitates. first cycle will be 8 weeks, 10 at max depending on how i am feeling.

-also it is definite that the ED pinning with prop produces much more even blood levels than 2x weekly with test e, since sides are my biggest worry, prop will def help (i.e. the more stable blood levels should help greatly with reducing sides related to fluctuating levels).

-as far as the pain, the test prop which i already have is from a very trusted source and i personally know several guys who use it and have never had any pain. also taking into account i will be shooting very small doses, no more than 75mg at once. i already have everything from pins (drawing with a 18g shooting with a 25g) to PCT and HCG on hand so the dosage was the only thing holding me up!

so would it be a reasonable idea to start off at 350mg a week for say the first 4-6 weeks and then potentially increase to 525mg a week if the 350mg doesnt feel like its cutting it?

**sixey** · 10-12-2010, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

Regarding the proviron.. i am running 100mg ED on 600mg test E and 400mg Deca and can tell you after two weeks its AI properties are pretty much unnoticeable.. if existent at all.. no need to run an AI if you do not need it.. a little bit of estrogen in your system is a good thing.. wait to see if you need it..

hmmm, i have been researching proviron on here and alot of guys reported they held alot less water and retained a "drier" look along with increased libido. from my understanding of proviron, it wont necessarily kill all your estro, just through some mechanism work as a AI of sorts if you dont have major estro issues..

i allready have the proviron so unless there is a major flaw in my logic that i am missing (please aware if there is lol), then 60mg of proviron could potentially help a bit but def not hurt. have plenty of aromasin which i am prepared to run at a low dose.

**vettewreck** · 10-12-2010, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by sixey

thanks for all the feedback guys!

-as far as running the prop for my first cycle as opposed to the normal test-e for first cycle i have several reasons. for my first time i don't want to do a long cycle that test-e necessitates. first cycle will be 8 weeks, 10 at max depending on how i am feeling.

-also it is definite that the ED pinning with prop produces much more even blood levels than 2x weekly with test e, since sides are my biggest worry, prop will def help (i.e. the more stable blood levels should help greatly with reducing sides related to fluctuating levels).

-as far as the pain, the test prop which i already have is from a very trusted source and i personally know several guys who use it and have never had any pain. also taking into account i will be shooting very small doses, no more than 75mg at once. i already have everything from pins (drawing with a 18g shooting with a 25g) to PCT and HCG on hand so the dosage was the only thing holding me up!

so would it be a reasonable idea to start off at 350mg a week for say the first 4-6 weeks and then potentially increase to 525mg a week if the 350mg doesnt feel like its cutting it?

-Test-e is perfect for a 10week cycle. So not sure why youre thinking that teste needs to be run longer.

-True, but teste is so long acting, and at 500mg/wk with 2 jabs, stable blood levels should not be TOO much of a concern. (at least not with 500mg for right now)

-The person prop comes from has nothing to do with pain. Its the ester type that causes the pain. From there, it varies how its made, but to start with first, its the ester that causes the pain.

**Swifto** · 10-13-2010, 12:24 PM

I wish I did 50mg/ED Test Prop for my first cycle, I really do. I would of been able to control sides better. Less estrogen and DHT too.

Do Enan or Cyp for a future cycle.

You also dont need 500mg/wk, you can quite easily start on 250mg/wk Test and make good gains with a solid diet. 350mg/wk Test Prop is perfect IMO with Aromasin 10mg/EOD and HCG 250ius 2x week, for 8 weeks.

**sixey** · 10-13-2010, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I wish I did 50mg/ED Test Prop for my first cycle, I really do. I would of been able to control sides better. Less estrogen and DHT too.

Do Enan or Cyp for a future cycle.

You also dont need 500mg/wk, you can quite easily start on 250mg/wk Test and make good gains with a solid diet. 350mg/wk Test Prop is perfect IMO with Aromasin 10mg/EOD and HCG 250ius 2x week, for 8 weeks.

thanks a ton brah, im glad you understand my reasoning behind going with the prop for my first cycle. im going to run it 50mg ed, my aromasin comes in 25mg tabs so it may be more practical for me to run it at 12.5mg/half a tab (should i start off at a lower dose 6.5mg ED or 12.5mg taken EOD?) with the 40-60mg of proviron ed as well. just gotta grab some bacteriostatic water for my HCG , cycle starts on monday! very excited with a tiny bit of nerves haha

**Swifto** · 10-13-2010, 04:03 PM

Whats the Proviron for?

If your thinking of controlling estrogen, I dont think it does much. I'd run 25-50mg/ED and 12.5mg Aromasin 3x week.

You wont get gains from Proviron, possibly strength and hardness from its androgenic component, but thats it.

SHBG wont raise when taking exogenous Test, it goes down.

**sixey** · 10-13-2010, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Whats the Proviron for?

If your thinking of controlling estrogen, I dont think it does much. I'd run 25-50mg/ED and 12.5mg Aromasin 3x week.

You wont get gains from Proviron, possibly strength and hardness from its androgenic component, but thats it.

SHBG wont raise when taking exogenous Test, it goes down.

the only reason for the proviron was i had previously purchased it and figured it wouldnt hurt to use it rather than just letting it go to waste, the extra bit of dryness/hardness would only be a plus.

as far dosing the aromasin, does it matter when you take it? (time of day? proximity to injection time?)

**Swifto** · 10-14-2010, 03:35 AM

No.

Take 12.5mg Mon/Wed/Fri, doesnt matter when.

Proviron at 50mg/ED if you have it, again, doesnt matter when.

**baseline_9** · 10-14-2010, 06:11 AM

Dont count on your prop being painless just because i didnt hurt your m8s

Ive brewed "painless" prop that stops me from walking even with 75mg ED shots

Just be prepaired for the pain and dont be off put

My first cycle was 250mg enth per week for 10weeks and i made gr8 gains and progress

If u want to be cautious 350mg, 50mg ED will be a solid first cycle

**lil_herc81** · 10-14-2010, 07:24 AM

As everyone indicated, keep it simple, . Test Prop needs to be administered EOD. this is also a painful injection for some so be prepared. Im not sure on your knowledge base so I will throw this in as well. Preferably use 2 pins per injection, 1 to remove oil from bottle and 1 to pin with (just unscrew tips) this keeps the pin new and sharp for ease. Do not inject the air bubbles into your muscle, make sure to aspirate and check for blood in syringe before pinning. Now keep in mind yes these are fast acting but not quite over night. Be patient, do not increase the dosage to see better gains. Keep it simple and steady. You will get great gains off your first cycle. If we are giving opinions. Bro-science; I would say dbol /deca as that is what I used for a first and was very pleased. Any form of Test is going to be good but would definitely stack with something else. Either way you will have hard lean gains. Good luck

**baseline_9** · 10-14-2010, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by lil_herc81

As everyone indicated, keep it simple, . Test Prop needs to be administered EOD. this is also a painful injection for some so be prepared. Im not sure on your knowledge base so I will throw this in as well. Preferably use 2 pins per injection, 1 to remove oil from bottle and 1 to pin with (just unscrew tips) this keeps the pin new and sharp for ease. Do not inject the air bubbles into your muscle, make sure to aspirate and check for blood in syringe before pinning. Now keep in mind yes these are fast acting but not quite over night. Be patient, do not increase the dosage to see better gains. Keep it simple and steady. You will get great gains off your first cycle. If we are giving opinions. Bro-science; I would say dbol/deca as that is what I used for a first and was very pleased. Any form of Test is going to be good but would definitely stack with something else. Either way you will have hard lean gains. Good luck

No offence but....

The info regarding pinning is not asked for

And your opinion (in bold above) IMO is bad advise for a first time cycler

IMO Keep a first cycle to one compound, preferabley a single ester test product, Dbol also if you wish

**Swifto** · 10-14-2010, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by lil_herc81

As everyone indicated, keep it simple, . Test Prop needs to be administered EOD. this is also a painful injection for some so be prepared. Im not sure on your knowledge base so I will throw this in as well. Preferably use 2 pins per injection, 1 to remove oil from bottle and 1 to pin with (just unscrew tips) this keeps the pin new and sharp for ease. Do not inject the air bubbles into your muscle, make sure to aspirate and check for blood in syringe before pinning. Now keep in mind yes these are fast acting but not quite over night. Be patient, do not increase the dosage to see better gains. Keep it simple and steady. You will get great gains off your first cycle. If we are giving opinions. Bro-science; I would say dbol /deca as that is what I used for a first and was very pleased. Any form of Test is going to be good but would definitely stack with something else. Either way you will have hard lean gains. Good luck