1st cycle suggested by professional coach/ex-pro bodybuilder

**rmalouf** · 10-29-2010, 09:16 AM

First of all a little about me:

Age 23
height 6'
weight 222 lbs
bf about 13%
years lifting seriously 4.5
short term goal: incrase lean mass
long term goal: pro bodybuilding

Those are my basic stats. Pretty much ive devoted my life to bodybuilding, and decided to build a base before begining my aas journey. If yuour wondering about my training and diet, well im a bs in exercise science, i have a cpt from ace, and i have a CSCS from nsca and soon i will have my CISSN (certified sports nutritionist). I lift 5-6 days per week, diet consists of 5-7 meals per day. Previous ph experince: i have done dymethazine and protodrol by iforce, had good results specially with dymethazine.

Ok, so im currently in lebanon for a few months, and i have good gear at my reach. Ive been speaking to the man that first taught me about lifting, he is MS in exercise science and MS in nutrition and went to prague to study anabolics. I asked him to prescribe me a cycle, and what he gave me shocked me. He insist that because of my advanced level this cycle is what i need. I have seen him train/prescribe cycles to others with great success. Neways here is what he told me:

Its only 8 weeks because of the duration of my stay in lebanon!!

nandrolone 600mg/week
sustanon 600mg/week
trembolone 300mg/week
stanazol 350mg/week

pct
nolva 20mg for 3 weeks
pregnil 500 iu for 2 weeks
proviron 40mg for 3 weeks
clomid 100mg for 5 days then 50 mg till the third week
and one more thing that he said in french, it begins with an M and has something to do with LH

i will do blood test before and after

this seems crazy from what ive researched..but ive seen the guys he has trained, they are phenomenal, and their blood test come up great.

I hope some of you advanced lifters can give mee some feedback. Please no bullshit comments. Thank you all in advance!!!

Rob

**MBMETC** · 10-29-2010, 09:37 AM

you seem to have a great base (avitar) have you tried tweaking your diet to see if these gains can be natuarlly

**redz** · 10-29-2010, 09:38 AM

That is way too much for a first cycle. You got some out right aweful advice.

**Matt** · 10-29-2010, 09:41 AM

^^^ Agreed, way to much.

Hit the educational threads for beginners..

**HawaiianPride.** · 10-29-2010, 09:44 AM

Kinda confused here. What did he mean by you being an advanced level? You've never cycled before so your fresh to this like the next new guy is, regardless of your stats or credentials. Odd..

I agree, first cycle is excessive. What type of Nandrolone ? What type of Trenbolone ? Duration of the Stan? Does he expect you to just guess on these?

350-400mg Test will do just fine. I would even go as far as throwing an oral in. That's it. Test the waters and ease your way into more compounds/stacks/and doses as time progresses on. This board has many beginner layouts listed in the educationals.

**sigman roid** · 10-29-2010, 09:51 AM

I agree with HP the cycle has way to much going on for a first cycle and the info you have provided is very sketchy regarding the compounds your gonna be using.

**Swifto** · 10-29-2010, 10:00 AM

FAR too much AAS.

250-350mg/wk Sust is fine for a 1st cycle, 2x week.

**rmalouf** · 10-29-2010, 10:19 AM

just fyi, i have read all the beginners stuff...and have done plenty of other research. let me put it this way, he asked me if i wanted to be a recreational user or get into pro bodybuilding. he claims that building my way 1 steroid at at time, will take years to get to a decent cycle, and i will not stand a chance agaisnt other guys competing. I can see how i can be too much, but what is the reasoning for not going for a cycle like this. Even if i do test and deca on their own thats enough to shut my system down, so why not go for a more powerful cycle with a more advanced pct??? im sure all the succesful bodybuilders started out in a similar fashion. i dont think the likes opf jay cutler or ronnie coleman started off on a test solo cycle....my goal is to compete in an npc competiton next august....if you have good explanation as to why not, im open to hear it, but please dont refer me to beginner threads which i have read hundreds of times....

**rmalouf** · 10-29-2010, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

Kinda confused here. What did he mean by you being an advanced level? You've never cycled before so your fresh to this like the next new guy is, regardless of your stats or credentials. Odd..

I agree, first cycle is excessive. What type of Nandrolone ? What type of Trenbolone ? Duration of the Stan? Does he expect you to just guess on these?

350-400mg Test will do just fine. I would even go as far as throwing an oral in. That's it. Test the waters and ease your way into more compounds/stacks/and doses as time progresses on. This board has many beginner layouts listed in the educationals.

first off, i dont mean that my credentials make me better or something...i put them out there to clarify that as for training and nutrition, im on point!!!

as for the types, nandrolone decanoate...i will get you the rest of the details when i see him on monday, and he will be with me throughout the entire cycle...just in case ur wondering, he is a close family friend, and helps me train for free!!!

**dec11** · 10-29-2010, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

just fyi, i have read all the beginners stuff...and have done plenty of other research. let me put it this way, he asked me if i wanted to be a recreational user or get into pro bodybuilding. he claims that building my way 1 steroid at at time, will take years to get to a decent cycle, and i will not stand a chance agaisnt other guys competing. I can see how i can be too much, but what is the reasoning for not going for a cycle like this. Even if i do test and deca on their own thats enough to shut my system down, so why not go for a more powerful cycle with a more advanced pct??? im sure all the succesful bodybuilders started out in a similar fashion. i dont think the likes opf jay cutler or ronnie coleman started off on a test solo cycle....my goal is to compete in an npc competiton next august....if you have good explanation as to why not, im open to hear it, but please dont refer me to beginner threads which i have read hundreds of times....

seems you know it all, so why ask us? and deca and test can most def shut you down. simple explaination, you dont know what way your body will react and you wont know which compound is causing which side. you say you've read beginners threads, doesnt sound like it to me

**MACHINE5150** · 10-29-2010, 10:35 AM

i would say drop the tren and the stanazol.. do the deca and test.. but keep deca at 400mg.. for your next cycle you can do what you propose.. but four compounds on your first cycle you might react bad to one and not know what it is.. if you wana compete next year you have time to do two decent cycles.. just do 600mgtest and 400mg deca your first time around.. you will like the results.. than if you want to add tren and Stan in your second cycle that is up to you, but at least then you will know if you have issues in your second cycle you know it is either the stan or the tren.. you can still achieve your goals with out running all those compounds..

***D7M*** · 10-29-2010, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

i would say drop the tren and the stanazol.. do the deca and test.. but keep deca at 400mg.. for your next cycle you can do what you propose.. but four compounds on your first cycle you might react bad to one and not know what it is.. if you wana compete next year you have time to do two decent cycles.. just do 600mgtest and 400mg deca your first time around.. you will like the results.. than if you want to add tren and Stan in your second cycle that is up to you, but at least then you will know if you have issues in your second cycle you know it is either the stan or the tren.. you can still achieve your goals with out running all those compounds..

Completely disagree.

Test only is all you need for a first cycle.

If he does test/deca , he still won't know what's giving him sides.

Besides, he certainly doesn't need a 19nor in a first cycle.

I completely agree with Swifto and HP.

**redz** · 10-29-2010, 10:41 AM

Also to the op you won`t build a perfect competition body in one cycle. It takes a long time and alot of dedication to build a master piece. Don`t rush things.

**Swifto** · 10-29-2010, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

just fyi, i have read all the beginners stuff...and have done plenty of other research. let me put it this way, he asked me if i wanted to be a recreational user or get into pro bodybuilding. he claims that building my way 1 steroid at at time, will take years to get to a decent cycle, and i will not stand a chance agaisnt other guys competing. I can see how i can be too much, but what is the reasoning for not going for a cycle like this. Even if i do test and deca on their own thats enough to shut my system down, so why not go for a more powerful cycle with a more advanced pct??? im sure all the succesful bodybuilders started out in a similar fashion. i dont think the likes opf jay cutler or ronnie coleman started off on a test solo cycle....my goal is to compete in an npc competiton next august....if you have good explanation as to why not, im open to hear it, but please dont refer me to beginner threads which i have read hundreds of times....

There are lots of reasons's.

I gained 24-26lbs on my first run with Test Enan at 500mg/wk. By you theory and your flawed idiotic trainer's logic thats not enough as "you need to be competing with the other guys on more...". I mean, how stupid can you be (yeah, I'm insulting your trainer).

I gained around 16-18lbs (lost all my gains + more after my first cycle due to pneumonia) on the exact same cycle again the following time. Then didnt cycle (properly), cycled again using 350mg/wk Test Prop and put on about 15-16lbs again.

This is your introduction to AAS. You do not NEED a total mg per week amount of pushing 2g/wk.

You will gain very well off of 250-350mg/wk Test with a decent diet and training protocol.

Let me ask you this...

Say you do use all those compounds and doses:

"nandrolone 600mg/week
sustanon 600mg/week
trembolone 300mg/week
stanazol 350mg/week"

What does your 2nd, 3rd and 4th cycle look like?

**Swifto** · 10-29-2010, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

just fyi, i have read all the beginners stuff...and have done plenty of other research. let me put it this way, he asked me if i wanted to be a recreational user or get into pro bodybuilding. he claims that building my way 1 steroid at at time, will take years to get to a decent cycle, and i will not stand a chance agaisnt other guys competing. I can see how i can be too much, but what is the reasoning for not going for a cycle like this. Even if i do test and deca on their own thats enough to shut my system down, so why not go for a more powerful cycle with a more advanced pct??? im sure all the succesful bodybuilders started out in a similar fashion. i dont think the likes opf jay cutler or ronnie coleman started off on a test solo cycle....my goal is to compete in an npc competiton next august....if you have good explanation as to why not, im open to hear it, but please dont refer me to beginner threads which i have read hundreds of times....

WTF?!

Run something stupid like this:

wk 1-16 2g Test Enan
wk 1-16 Deca 900mg/wk
wk 1-6 Dbol 100mg/ED
wk 10-18 Anadrol 200mg/ED

PCT can be aggressive and you can take cholesterol meds, BP meds, HCG during and after, dopamine agonist's, thyroid meds, SERMs and AI's to control estrogen. F*ck it, you can take like 50 pills everyday to control the side effects.

Do you not have any logic whatsoever?

Who's knows what Ronnie took. I've heard from some decent enough sources he competed in his very first show... Natural. Ronnie used low doses and responded VERY well. From his first cycle and stepping on stage to his best ever shape in 2003, he gradually increased his doses.

For his first cycle if he were to do what I have just outlined above. What the f*ck was he on in 2003? 10g's Test Enan, 500mg/ED Dbol.

Your a beginner and your logic is so off the mark its unreal.

Bodybuilding takes YEARS. You dont step on stage and compete nationally after one cycle. Uneless your Ronnie, Jay. I mean, your even comparing yourself to them...

**Swifto** · 10-29-2010, 10:57 AM

Read it...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...into-your-dose!!

**HawaiianPride.** · 10-29-2010, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

just fyi, i have read all the beginners stuff...and have done plenty of other research. let me put it this way, he asked me if i wanted to be a recreational user or get into pro bodybuilding. he claims that building my way 1 steroid at at time, will take years to get to a decent cycle, and i will not stand a chance agaisnt other guys competing. I can see how i can be too much, but what is the reasoning for not going for a cycle like this. Even if i do test and deca on their own thats enough to shut my system down, so why not go for a more powerful cycle with a more advanced pct??? im sure all the succesful bodybuilders started out in a similar fashion. i dont think the likes opf jay cutler or ronnie coleman started off on a test solo cycle....my goal is to compete in an npc competiton next august....if you have good explanation as to why not, im open to hear it, but please dont refer me to beginner threads which i have read hundreds of times....

First bold: Confused here again. Ask virtually any IFBB pro (natural or not) how long it took them to get up to the pro ranks and earn their status. Regardless of how much drugs they are pumping into themselves, most of them will have put years, and years, of hard work and dedication. Starting out with 1.5grams of anabolics on your first run will no way in hell shorten your time frame to become among the elite. That's bullshit.

Second bold: The reasons are simple. You don't know how your body is going to react to such an advanced cycle, nor does your expert friend. Test the waters and go from there. Given your already naturally high test levels and your zero experience, a simple Testosterone cycle will be more than enough. Typically, most guys make the most significant progress during their first cycles (provided dosing, nutrition, and training are sufficient) It's almost like your first year of training. You will grow like a weed. Bodybuilding isn't a sprint. There are no short cuts, no magic beans. It will still take plenty of gym hours and years of doing shows and dedication to transform your body and move up in the ranks. The drugs and amount of drugs you take aren't the sole determiner of how fast you will get there.

3rd bold: Dude, these guys were genetically gifted human beings before they even started bodybuilding, or even started training for that matter. Ronnie had 20 inch arms and calves to match before he even got started at Metroflex. Brian saw him and offered him a free membership because he saw potential in a guy that didn't even train at a gym, nor have a membership. Don't use these guys as an example to start cycling so heavy, so early. You'll have plenty of time to start taking in grams upon grams of steroids per week if you really want to make this a career. Worry about yourself and the road that's ahead of you.

Originally Posted by rmalouf

first off, i dont mean that my credentials make me better or something...i put them out there to clarify that as for training and nutrition, im on point!!!

What? I never said you were trying to make yourself better dude, re-read my post. I'm glad you put that information out there. The more we know about you, the better.

I was referring to your friend and his reasoning for putting you on such a heavy cycle because you are on an "advanced level". I was severely confused what he meant by this so I assumed he was basing this off your stats and credentials, because you obviously have you prior AAS experience so it can't be that.

as for the types, nandrolone decanoate...i will get you the rest of the details when i see him on monday, and he will be with me throughout the entire cycle...just in case ur wondering, he is a close family friend, and helps me train for free!!!

I wasn't wondering but thanks for sharing anyways, lol

Bold^

**rmalouf** · 10-31-2010, 03:45 PM

hey guys, first off, thanks for all ur opinions. Dont think im trying to prove you all wrong!! i was just trying to see if anyone had anything good to say about such a suggested cycle. it came as a shock to me when he proposed that to me, specially cuz i know he knows his shit...he may just be excited with my potential or something and wants to push my hard! in the end its my decesion no matter what anyone says, and most likely i will end up doing my preferred 1st cycle which will be test + deca . if u ask why i insist on adding the deca, its becuase ive been told by many users that its phenomenal for joints. ive had a few joint issues myself. i will most likely post my actual cycle before i begin!!! thanks!!

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 10-31-2010, 05:15 PM

From what I have seen, you will get nearly the exact same gains on that cycle as you would a test only cycle. There really won't be much of a difference. If this is wrong, someone correct me. However, I can't imagine you could gain much more than the potential 20lbs you could gain from test

**MACHINE5150** · 10-31-2010, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

hey guys, first off, thanks for all ur opinions. Dont think im trying to prove you all wrong!! i was just trying to see if anyone had anything good to say about such a suggested cycle. it came as a shock to me when he proposed that to me, specially cuz i know he knows his shit...he may just be excited with my potential or something and wants to push my hard! in the end its my decesion no matter what anyone says, and most likely i will end up doing my preferred 1st cycle which will be test + deca. if u ask why i insist on adding the deca, its becuase ive been told by many users that its phenomenal for joints. ive had a few joint issues myself. i will most likely post my actual cycle before i begin!!! thanks!!

i think this is a good choice.. guys on here will say Test only.. but in all honesty 90% of people have no sides from Deca , and those who do have sides from deca are usually due to the fact they are not running enough test along with the Deca. I think you will see great results with 600mg Test and 400mg Deca.. that is what i am running now and was what i ran my past two cycles years ago (yes my first cycle was this as well), and have gained 25, 10 and 20lbs of muscle..

**Swifto** · 11-01-2010, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

hey guys, first off, thanks for all ur opinions. Dont think im trying to prove you all wrong!! i was just trying to see if anyone had anything good to say about such a suggested cycle. it came as a shock to me when he proposed that to me, specially cuz i know he knows his shit...he may just be excited with my potential or something and wants to push my hard! in the end its my decesion no matter what anyone says, and most likely i will end up doing my preferred 1st cycle which will be test + deca. if u ask why i insist on adding the deca, its becuase ive been told by many users that its phenomenal for joints. ive had a few joint issues myself. i will most likely post my actual cycle before i begin!!! thanks!!

Cissus is good for joints as well.

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 11-01-2010, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

i think this is a good choice.. guys on here will say Test only.. but in all honesty 90% of people have no sides from Deca, and those who do have sides from deca are usually due to the fact they are not running enough test along with the Deca. I think you will see great results with 600mg Test and 400mg Deca.. that is what i am running now and was what i ran my past two cycles years ago (yes my first cycle was this as well), and have gained 25, 10 and 20lbs of muscle..

It's not as much a matter of sides as it is the fact his gains won't be any different on test only or test + deca if it's his first cycle. Either way his results will nearly be the same. A first cycle is a first cycle and up to a certain dose, the differences are minimal

**stpete** · 11-01-2010, 03:50 PM

Way too much for first cycle...I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's probably the one selling the juice to you...Bad advice on his part nonetheless....

**Sicko** · 11-01-2010, 04:23 PM

The reason that the cycle that your trainer suggested "shocked" you is because it should have!!
That is way to many compounds at high doses for a first cycle. I am not a pro or expert but I have read enough studies,threads,testimonials etc...to know this to be true..I dont think you could gain as much as you think off "one" cycle no matter how many compounds you run.. you will just strain your body unneccessarily for little to no extra..IMO
By the way you are getting advice from pros and experts,WhAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU????

**jimmyinkedup** · 11-01-2010, 04:43 PM

to each his own BUT - i say , much like everyone else , to many roids for a first cycle. No need to stack like that. Read this if u like:
I pulled this from another post i made :

So many reasons a test only cycle should come first.
1- it is the bodies predominant naturally occuring hormone that will establish muscle mass.
2- It will -whether u start with it first cycle or not become the base for 90% of all future cycles , and if u think that doesnt apply cause u only wanna do one cycle...i got news for ya- after that one cycle you WILL wanna do more!
3- You need to know the effects of test on your body throughout a cycle - that way when when you do stack other compounds with it you can get a true guage or feeling for what they provide for you in terms of gains , sides etc. Almost all other feelings you establish on different steroids will be based on their interaction and synergy with test . This will be your "baseline". Later you might explore how 2 or 3 compounds (maybe more) synergistically interact with one another...but you need an accurate baseline - test will provide that as it is prob the only compound that stacks well with virtually every steroid ..
4 - IT WORKS ...WELL!
5- straightforward ,relatively easy pct
Oh and did i mention it works..WELL!

On another level i dont like the deca / tren ratio at all for a beginner or advanced BB. If u want deca for joint relief you need maybe 150-250mgs-week. Then let the stronger 19nor - (tren) do the work. Dosages or better yet ratios of those 2 substances seem way out of wack. JMO Seamus

**rmalouf** · 11-03-2010, 04:22 AM

ok. so heres what i think im going to do:

10 week cycle
test e 600mg/week
deca 400mg/week

pct
pregnil 5000iu/week for 3 weeks
clomid 100mg/day for 5 days then 50mg/day till the end of the third week
proviron 50mg/day for 3 weeks

any comments or advice is welcome!!!

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 11-03-2010, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by rmalouf

ok. so heres what i think im going to do:

10 week cycle
test e 600mg/week
deca 400mg/week

pct
pregnil 5000iu/week for 3 weeks
clomid 100mg/day for 5 days then 50mg/day till the end of the third week
proviron 50mg/day for 3 weeks

any comments or advice is welcome!!!

yea. don't fukcing take deca!

**arshigtx** · 11-03-2010, 01:40 PM

Tren is never a good idea, unless you have some cycles already under your belt.

**Kdub** · 11-03-2010, 09:07 PM

Judging from your stats it appears you have great genetics my friend. You don't need the Deca and can cut the Test to 500 mg per week. I am positive you will grow very well off 350 mgs per week of Test. So many guys on here are coming back to lower doses and report excellent gains after 1+ gram a week test usage.

I was in your exact position when I was 23 and pursued pro bbing to Australia. You can read my first threads to see how we are/were similar. I wish I had the assistance of this forum back then. I went about it the WRONG WAY.

If pro bbing is the way you want to go then you need to set goals and look at future cycles. 10 weeks is ok for you first cycle but if pro bbing is what you really want then Burst cycling and Priming is the way to go. Of all the cycles I have done each one saw a halt to the gains after 30 days. Marcus is the guy to contact and read his threads. Yates used Prime/Burst method.

So many compound to use and you are many cycles away from a pro card.

Test 350 mg/wk - 10 weeks: You are VERY likely to add 30 lbs and keep at least 20. If you also use Deca you might add, what, 3-5 lbs?

Test / Dbol - 30 days Burst: Another 10 lbs

Test/ Deca (NPP) - Burst: Another 10 lbs

Test/ Drol - Burst: 10 lbs

Test/ NPP/ Dbol or Drol - Burst: 10 lbs.

Test/ Tren - Burst: 10 lbs

Test/ Tren/ Winstrol or other DHT like Drol or Primo - Burst: 10 lbs

280 lbs now? 18 months later? Maxed out on AAS? Add HGH. And you are only 25 at this point and have FOUND OUT WHAT COMPOUNDS WORK BEST FOR YOU including PCT - strength, duration to bring you back.

Keep detailed records of results and of course with your food intake as well. 4.5 years of training is really short and your muscle maturity is lacking. I had 11 years lifting before I went to Aussie to pursue pro bbing at 23.

Look at the threads from Tai Boxia. He is a big fan of 200-250 mg/wk of Test but way higher anabolic dosage and making sure there is a tes/nor-19/dht combo in his cycles but this is for down the road.

Patience and long-term planning is what I wish I had along with way more knowledge. Experimentation is key and keeping records which it appears you are able to do with your background. I learned that my body responds way better to Test C then Prop and with Prop, 100mg/ml better than 50mg/ml. NPP is simply incredible and I'll take Dbol over Drol everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. I also discovered long before I cycled that Clen is a wonder drug for me. I found out that Clen + Creatine + High Calorie Weight Gainer pumps me up and fills me out very similar to being on cycle. I have written a few threads about Clen.

One day I banged in 24 ml of Prop/Enan just to see what would happen. 8 injections that morning (sounds like something BJJ would love - lol) 2 days later I was completely out of breath walking up a flight of 14 stairs and took 2-3 minutes to catch my breath. The next few days after that were difficult. I did squats and swear I could bounce off the bottom just from the pump like a trampoline. The pump was too much. and for a week I felt like GOD... lol.

So many variables and you're just about to begin your journey. The Chinese say that every journey begins with a single step. The advice from your trainer/ex-pro does have value. We know this because the methods he used got him a pro card but perhaps what worked for him will not work for you. Yates said he wrote down EVERYTHING HE DID in his log book; food, exercises, weights and of course compounds and he has 6 in a row to show for it. He use HIT training as well... little training with LOTS of rest.

It is better off being your own guinea pig and being the tortoise rather than the hare. Pro card could be 5 years away and Mr. O another 5-8 after that. Have you any idea how many cycles this is (and injections) and how many meals and massage/therapies, etc...? Cutler gets a minimum of 3 massages a week along with other therapies, chiro, etc...

Hope this helps. PM me if you like.

**ottomaddox** · 11-03-2010, 09:52 PM

How old are you?, and I wouldn't be very proud of that, it's irresponsible behaivor.

Originally Posted by Kdub

One day I banged in 24 ml of Prop/Enan just to see what would happen. 8 injections that morning (sounds like something BJJ would love - lol) 2 days later I was completely out of breath walking up a flight of 14 stairs and took 2-3 minutes to catch my breath. The next few days after that were difficult. I did squats and swear I could bounce off the bottom just from the pump like a trampoline. The pump was too much. and for a week I felt like GOD... lol.

**Kdub** · 11-04-2010, 02:40 AM

ottomaddox,

Almost as old as you. Who said anything about being proud of what I did years ago on one particular day? Irresponsible behavior? Not at all.

And why would I be proud of that (24 ml in a day)? What gave you that impression? I was sharing an experiment I performed including the results. The results were more doesn't mean better and have passed this finding on to the OP. Legs were incredibly pumped up just climbing stairs. If you are coming from the view point that 24 ml a day is dangerous you have assumed way too much.

Have you assumed that prop was 100 mg/ml and enan was 250 mg/ml? In truth, prop was 100 mg/ml but enan was only 75 mg/ml bringing the total up to 1800 mgs. Have no clue why you make such a statement unless you think 1,800 mgs of Test in one day and one day only is "harmful to my health" but maybe you didn't know it was only 1800 mgs.

And are you also assuming that seeing I acted so "irresponsibly" that I must be immature and therefore young and the reason why you ask for my age so you can put the 3 together and prove some kind of a point?

Cheers mate.

**boz** · 11-04-2010, 05:58 AM

I will keep it short and sweet, that cycle is ludacris for ya 1st cycle mate, stick with the test and if your that stubborn and really want the second compound (deca ) 200mg would be fine.

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 11-04-2010, 06:44 AM

Amazing post. Thanks for a good read!

Originally Posted by Kdub

Judging from your stats it appears you have great genetics my friend. You don't need the Deca and can cut the Test to 500 mg per week. I am positive you will grow very well off 350 mgs per week of Test. So many guys on here are coming back to lower doses and report excellent gains after 1+ gram a week test usage.

I was in your exact position when I was 23 and pursued pro bbing to Australia. You can read my first threads to see how we are/were similar. I wish I had the assistance of this forum back then. I went about it the WRONG WAY.

If pro bbing is the way you want to go then you need to set goals and look at future cycles. 10 weeks is ok for you first cycle but if pro bbing is what you really want then Burst cycling and Priming is the way to go. Of all the cycles I have done each one saw a halt to the gains after 30 days. Marcus is the guy to contact and read his threads. Yates used Prime/Burst method.

So many compound to use and you are many cycles away from a pro card.

Test 350 mg/wk - 10 weeks: You are VERY likely to add 30 lbs and keep at least 20. If you also use Deca you might add, what, 3-5 lbs?

Test / Dbol - 30 days Burst: Another 10 lbs

Test/ Deca (NPP) - Burst: Another 10 lbs

Test/ Drol - Burst: 10 lbs

Test/ NPP/ Dbol or Drol - Burst: 10 lbs.

Test/ Tren - Burst: 10 lbs

Test/ Tren/ Winstrol or other DHT like Drol or Primo - Burst: 10 lbs

280 lbs now? 18 months later? Maxed out on AAS? Add HGH. And you are only 25 at this point and have FOUND OUT WHAT COMPOUNDS WORK BEST FOR YOU including PCT - strength, duration to bring you back.

Keep detailed records of results and of course with your food intake as well. 4.5 years of training is really short and your muscle maturity is lacking. I had 11 years lifting before I went to Aussie to pursue pro bbing at 23.

Look at the threads from Tai Boxia. He is a big fan of 200-250 mg/wk of Test but way higher anabolic dosage and making sure there is a tes/nor-19/dht combo in his cycles but this is for down the road.

Patience and long-term planning is what I wish I had along with way more knowledge. Experimentation is key and keeping records which it appears you are able to do with your background. I learned that my body responds way better to Test C then Prop and with Prop, 100mg/ml better than 50mg/ml. NPP is simply incredible and I'll take Dbol over Drol everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. I also discovered long before I cycled that Clen is a wonder drug for me. I found out that Clen + Creatine + High Calorie Weight Gainer pumps me up and fills me out very similar to being on cycle. I have written a few threads about Clen.

One day I banged in 24 ml of Prop/Enan just to see what would happen. 8 injections that morning (sounds like something BJJ would love - lol) 2 days later I was completely out of breath walking up a flight of 14 stairs and took 2-3 minutes to catch my breath. The next few days after that were difficult. I did squats and swear I could bounce off the bottom just from the pump like a trampoline. The pump was too much. and for a week I felt like GOD... lol.

So many variables and you're just about to begin your journey. The Chinese say that every journey begins with a single step. The advice from your trainer/ex-pro does have value. We know this because the methods he used got him a pro card but perhaps what worked for him will not work for you. Yates said he wrote down EVERYTHING HE DID in his log book; food, exercises, weights and of course compounds and he has 6 in a row to show for it. He use HIT training as well... little training with LOTS of rest.

It is better off being your own guinea pig and being the tortoise rather than the hare. Pro card could be 5 years away and Mr. O another 5-8 after that. Have you any idea how many cycles this is (and injections) and how many meals and massage/therapies, etc...? Cutler gets a minimum of 3 massages a week along with other therapies, chiro, etc...

Hope this helps. PM me if you like.

**rmalouf** · 11-04-2010, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kdub

Judging from your stats it appears you have great genetics my friend. You don't need the Deca and can cut the Test to 500 mg per week. I am positive you will grow very well off 350 mgs per week of Test. So many guys on here are coming back to lower doses and report excellent gains after 1+ gram a week test usage.

I was in your exact position when I was 23 and pursued pro bbing to Australia. You can read my first threads to see how we are/were similar. I wish I had the assistance of this forum back then. I went about it the WRONG WAY.

If pro bbing is the way you want to go then you need to set goals and look at future cycles. 10 weeks is ok for you first cycle but if pro bbing is what you really want then Burst cycling and Priming is the way to go. Of all the cycles I have done each one saw a halt to the gains after 30 days. Marcus is the guy to contact and read his threads. Yates used Prime/Burst method.

So many compound to use and you are many cycles away from a pro card.

Test 350 mg/wk - 10 weeks: You are VERY likely to add 30 lbs and keep at least 20. If you also use Deca you might add, what, 3-5 lbs?

Test / Dbol - 30 days Burst: Another 10 lbs

Test/ Deca (NPP) - Burst: Another 10 lbs

Test/ Drol - Burst: 10 lbs

Test/ NPP/ Dbol or Drol - Burst: 10 lbs.

Test/ Tren - Burst: 10 lbs

Test/ Tren/ Winstrol or other DHT like Drol or Primo - Burst: 10 lbs

280 lbs now? 18 months later? Maxed out on AAS? Add HGH. And you are only 25 at this point and have FOUND OUT WHAT COMPOUNDS WORK BEST FOR YOU including PCT - strength, duration to bring you back.

Keep detailed records of results and of course with your food intake as well. 4.5 years of training is really short and your muscle maturity is lacking. I had 11 years lifting before I went to Aussie to pursue pro bbing at 23.

Look at the threads from Tai Boxia. He is a big fan of 200-250 mg/wk of Test but way higher anabolic dosage and making sure there is a tes/nor-19/dht combo in his cycles but this is for down the road.

Patience and long-term planning is what I wish I had along with way more knowledge. Experimentation is key and keeping records which it appears you are able to do with your background. I learned that my body responds way better to Test C then Prop and with Prop, 100mg/ml better than 50mg/ml. NPP is simply incredible and I'll take Dbol over Drol everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. I also discovered long before I cycled that Clen is a wonder drug for me. I found out that Clen + Creatine + High Calorie Weight Gainer pumps me up and fills me out very similar to being on cycle. I have written a few threads about Clen.

One day I banged in 24 ml of Prop/Enan just to see what would happen. 8 injections that morning (sounds like something BJJ would love - lol) 2 days later I was completely out of breath walking up a flight of 14 stairs and took 2-3 minutes to catch my breath. The next few days after that were difficult. I did squats and swear I could bounce off the bottom just from the pump like a trampoline. The pump was too much. and for a week I felt like GOD... lol.

So many variables and you're just about to begin your journey. The Chinese say that every journey begins with a single step. The advice from your trainer/ex-pro does have value. We know this because the methods he used got him a pro card but perhaps what worked for him will not work for you. Yates said he wrote down EVERYTHING HE DID in his log book; food, exercises, weights and of course compounds and he has 6 in a row to show for it. He use HIT training as well... little training with LOTS of rest.

It is better off being your own guinea pig and being the tortoise rather than the hare. Pro card could be 5 years away and Mr. O another 5-8 after that. Have you any idea how many cycles this is (and injections) and how many meals and massage/therapies, etc...? Cutler gets a minimum of 3 massages a week along with other therapies, chiro, etc...

Hope this helps. PM me if you like.

first off, THANKS!!! i appreciate you taking the time to give me some sincere adivce.

and yes, i want to go the road of pro bodybuilding, its just something that i love and would be ashamed of myself in the future if i didnt give it all i had. and ur probably right about burst cycles and such, but i dont know enough about that yet to even consider it, though im sure ill get to that soon. I have heard alot of opinions from bodybuilders strength coaches and such and you wouldnt believe how different in suggestion is!!!! ive decided with the test and deca. It may not be by the books but i just have a gut feeling that this will work for me (dont ask me how, i just do). Whatever happens this will be a learning experience for me more than anything. and ill most likely keep a log for you all to see and comment and give advice if needed as i go through the cycle. Start date is this monday unless smething comes up. I would appreciate any last tips or advice on the cycle/pct or supplements or anything else!!! Thank you all for your help!!!!

Rob

**Natureboy71** · 11-04-2010, 11:58 AM

There is fantastic advice in this thread. And no offence to the thread starter but I think your confidence in what you think your friend thinks he knows will actually slow you down.

I may not be competing but I have had better results on some cycles with much less AAS from previous cycles using a different compound because it just seemed to work better with my body (diet and training all being equal).

And I am sure it is explained in this thread in other terms that like any drug, your body slowly gets "immune" to AAS and too much too fast will only slow down results in the future for you.

**rmalouf** · 12-01-2010, 07:50 AM

totally forgot to do this, here my log

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...!!!&highlight=

if u decide to follow keep it serious please!!!!

**Duckhombre** · 12-01-2010, 11:12 AM

I think anyone who thinks that you can somehow take less gear and somehow get similar results as if you had taken twice as much is full of smoke. The more you take, the better it works, period. I know people who have gained ~50lbs in four months on their first cycle. I think your proposed test/deca cycle is solid gold. The whole deca and tren together can be a can of worms. My only recommendation is to take the proviron during your cycle and not pct. Avoid anti-estrogens unless you need them, and only take the minimum required. Have some caber on hand just in case.

This is just an opinion on the other side of the isle.

**Far from massive** · 12-01-2010, 01:36 PM

So you know guys gained 50lbs and whose first cycle lasted 4 months? I guess the nice thing about a 4 month first cycle is...I don't know anything good about it sorry.

**AlphaMaleDawg** · 12-01-2010, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Duckhombre

I think anyone who thinks that you can somehow take less gear and somehow get similar results as if you had taken twice as much is full of smoke. The more you take, the better it works, period. I know people who have gained ~50lbs in four months on their first cycle. I think your proposed test/deca cycle is solid gold. The whole deca and tren together can be a can of worms. My only recommendation is to take the proviron during your cycle and not pct. Avoid anti-estrogens unless you need them, and only take the minimum required. Have some caber on hand just in case.

This is just an opinion on the other side of the isle.

if they gained 50lbs on their first cycle, they must have started at 5'10 and 130lbs. They also would have gained nearly that same amount of 500mg of test at that size (maybe only 40 or something, give or take)