Jump starting a cycle with prop

**anabolicextreme** · 12-09-2010, 01:58 PM

Hey guys I am running my third cycle which is going to consist of test e 500mg for 11 weeks. Have done a great deal of studying before starting this cycle, I have read that test e takes 4-5 weeks to really kick in. I have heard, but cannot find much information on jump starting a cycle with test prop. I have a bottle of test prop that I'd like to throw in there to get the ball rolling and feel some effects so that the first 4 or 5 weeks include growth also. I am running 500 mg per week of test e for 11 weeks and I do not necessarily want to go over 500 mg as of now. How would I go about "jump starting" my cycle with prop? Do i run 250mg test e and the other 250 prop until the fifth week then cut out the prop? You tell me, any advice is appreciated.

**Seattle Junk** · 12-09-2010, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

Hey guys I am running my third cycle which is going to consist of test e 500mg for 11 weeks. Have done a great deal of studying before starting this cycle, I have read that test e takes 4-5 weeks to really kick in. I have heard, but cannot find much information on jump starting a cycle with test prop. I have a bottle of test prop that I'd like to throw in there to get the ball rolling and feel some effects so that the first 4 or 5 weeks include growth also. I am running 500 mg per week of test e for 11 weeks and I do not necessarily want to go over 500 mg as of now. How would I go about "jump starting" my cycle with prop? Do i run 250mg test e and the other 250 prop until the fifth week then cut out the prop? You tell me, any advice is appreciated.

If you have enough prop I would shoot 100mgs every other day. The ester is very short so that means the half life is even shorter. I love prop but I hate the constant pokes. I actually have some oral non a-17 prop tabs that are just sitting around. You would have to take these like every 2 hours or even more frequently since the liver would break them down in the 1st pass. Sounds like your doing some kind of bulking cycle so I would highly recommend oral turinabol . But if you were jumping a cutting cycle I would use anavar . As long as your liver functions are normal then you will actually benefit from the 2nd pass of the drug thru the liver from the 17a-methyl-androst carbon being altered. This actually promotes stimuation of natural igf-1 which is mainly produced in the liver.

Oral-Turinabol

(4-chlorodehydromethyltestosterone)
[4-chloro-17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-dien-3-one]
Molecular Weight:334.8854
Formula:C20H27O2Cl
Manufacturer: Underground Labs only
Effective Dose (Men): 10-40mgs/day
Effective Dose (Women): 5-15mgs/day
Active life: 16 hours
Detection Time: 6 weeks
Anabolic / Androgenic ratio: >100:>0

Anavar

(Oxandrolone)
[17b-hydroxy-17a-methyl-2-oxa-5a-androstane-3-one]
Molecular Weight: 306.4442
Formula: C19H30O3
Melting Point: 235 – 238 Celcius
Manufacturer: BTG, SPA, Originally Searle (1964)
Effective dose: (Men)20-100mgs/day (or .125mg/kg~bdywt); (Women) 2.5-20mgs.day
Active Life: 8-12 hours
Detection Time: 3 weeks
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 322-630:24

**Bertuzzi** · 12-09-2010, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

Hey guys I am running my third cycle which is going to consist of test e 500mg for 11 weeks. Have done a great deal of studying before starting this cycle, I have read that test e takes 4-5 weeks to really kick in. I have heard, but cannot find much information on jump starting a cycle with test prop. I have a bottle of test prop that I'd like to throw in there to get the ball rolling and feel some effects so that the first 4 or 5 weeks include growth also. I am running 500 mg per week of test e for 11 weeks and I do not necessarily want to go over 500 mg as of now. How would I go about "jump starting" my cycle with prop? Do i run 250mg test e and the other 250 prop until the fifth week then cut out the prop? You tell me, any advice is appreciated.

Welcome to the board....

Please provide all stats with your post.

Age
Height
Weight
BF %
Cycle Exp
Training Exp.

Thanks

**anabolicextreme** · 12-09-2010, 02:30 PM

yeah I was thinking prop 100mg eod sounds good, but what weeks would you run that? Lets say I did 100mg eod which is 300 a week, would I drop test e to 200mg per week so I reach my goal of 500mg pw? And yeah turinabol has always been something that I wanted but it has always been one of the more rare ones to find. I dont seem to be able to find anyone who makes turinabol. That being said I guess i may just stick to the prop.

**anabolicextreme** · 12-09-2010, 02:32 PM

age-26
height- 5'6
weight- 192
BF% lets say 16% but water retention is horrible lately
Cycle exp- Test prop/dbol 10 weeks, Test prop and Deca 10 weeks
Training experience about 7 years

**Far from massive** · 12-09-2010, 07:36 PM

I am curious about this also as my next cycle will be with cyp, is there any reason not to add prop to the front of a long ester cycle?

PS To me it seems like you would want to use a constant dose of the long ester test and dose the prop in decreasing amounts to compensate for the build up of the long ester. So say for a 600mg 12wk cyp cycle you might want to use prop every day and decrease the dose every week say 100/80/70/50 weeks 1-4 and maybe extend it by adding on 50mg eod during week 5. What do you think if you did not mind all the extra pinning would this be a resonable approach and is there any reason not to do it?

PS if this is the dumbest thing you have ever heard go ahead let me know...I got broad shoulders and can handle the pain LOL

Thanks,

FFM

**anabolicextreme** · 12-09-2010, 10:43 PM

All these views and no one can provide a single answer! Where are the pros at?
And ffm no i don't think its dumb i've heard of a lot of people doing this, just not sure of the details...

**Userat204** · 12-09-2010, 11:24 PM

Not a pro but you just start your 500mg of enanth along with 100mg of the prop eod. Even though you are putting a little more test in your system the prop is going to run through your system pretty fast so you won't have 800 mg at one time. At around week 4 or 5 drop the prop and continue with the E. You can taper it if you feel like it but no need. The prop ester is the reason for using prop and it dosent matter if you use 100mg it 50 mg it's gonna work for the same amount of time. It is good to ask about these things before using them so props for that but it comes down to personal preference. I would just run 100 eod

**in2shape** · 12-09-2010, 11:46 PM

when ppl say eod do they mean mon wed fri miss sat sun then mon wed fri again? or more like mon wed fri sun tues thurs etc and keep going ?

sorry if thats stupid jst cant wrap my head round it ....?

also to the original poster iam also doing well thinking of doing this as im about to start a 10 week test cyp cycle and wouldnt mind a front load so im watching this 1 hope you get ya answers

**hankdiesel** · 12-09-2010, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

age-26
height- 5'6
weight- 192
BF% lets say 16% but water retention is horrible lately
Cycle exp- Test prop/dbol 10 weeks, Test prop and Deca 10 weeks
Training experience about 7 years

Water retention has been horribl? You're not even on a cycle. Maybe you have a little more bf than you think. If you are going to kickstart with prop, start day 1 with a shot or prop with a ml of the test E. Continue the prop eod till it's gone. By that time your 2x a week shots of test E will be kicking in. Also, 100mg of prop eod will be 350mg a week.

**in2shape** · 12-10-2010, 12:05 AM

hey mate can u ellaborate on my post 4 me if u got the time im asking same about prop upfront dosing protocols have a read cheers mate much appreciated if u can

**Userat204** · 12-10-2010, 01:14 AM

Monday Wednesday Friday Sunday Tuesday ect is fine. To much thought is being put into this. Prop is used because it's a short ester. Eod use is to obtain optimal results from it. If you want to use twice a week that is a choice but eod keeps the levels consistent.

**stevey_6t9** · 12-10-2010, 01:25 AM

dont do it, i did it for my first and got terrible sides from the drop after the kickstart.

stick to one

**calstate23** · 12-10-2010, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

Hey guys I am running my third cycle which is going to consist of test e 500mg for 11 weeks. Have done a great deal of studying before starting this cycle, I have read that test e takes 4-5 weeks to really kick in. I have heard, but cannot find much information on jump starting a cycle with test prop. I have a bottle of test prop that I'd like to throw in there to get the ball rolling and feel some effects so that the first 4 or 5 weeks include growth also. I am running 500 mg per week of test e for 11 weeks and I do not necessarily want to go over 500 mg as of now. How would I go about "jump starting" my cycle with prop? Do i run 250mg test e and the other 250 prop until the fifth week then cut out the prop? You tell me, any advice is appreciated.

Why not just jump start with d-bol?

**MBMETC** · 12-10-2010, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

dont do it, i did it for my first and got terrible sides from the drop after the kickstart.

stick to one

Elaborate please stevey

**anabolicextreme** · 12-10-2010, 08:33 AM

I can see what stevey is saying about the drop. That was my main concern for timing and dosing. Now that I think about it, I feel that it would be tough to judge when to stop the prop and decide when the test e is really going to kick in. Ive had some trouble with unsteady test levels and sides in the past so i'm gonna just stick with test e for this cyc.. thanks guys

**in2shape** · 12-10-2010, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

dont do it, i did it for my first and got terrible sides from the drop after the kickstart.

stick to one

what sorta sides ?? did u do a prop test cyp/enth cycle ?

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

I can see what stevey is saying about the drop. That was my main concern for timing and dosing. Now that I think about it, I feel that it would be tough to judge when to stop the prop and decide when the test e is really going to kick in. Ive had some trouble with unsteady test levels and sides in the past so i'm gonna just stick with test e for this cyc.. thanks guys

hope ya dont mind me joining in ya thread

cheers man goodluck with cycle !!!

if i can get some var ill run that or even tbol for 4 weeks at the moment tho i can only get tst test and more test !!! even suspension

**Seattle Junk** · 12-10-2010, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

yeah I was thinking prop 100mg eod sounds good, but what weeks would you run that? Lets say I did 100mg eod which is 300 a week, would I drop test e to 200mg per week so I reach my goal of 500mg pw? And yeah turinabol has always been something that I wanted but it has always been one of the more rare ones to find. I dont seem to be able to find anyone who makes turinabol. That being said I guess i may just stick to the prop.

age-26
height- 5'6
weight- 192
BF% lets say 16% but water retention is horrible lately
Cycle exp- Test prop/dbol 10 weeks, Test prop and Deca 10 weeks
Training experience about 7 years

I would front load the prop at 200mgs the first 2 shots then 100mgs eod for your jump. the 500mgs test every week is fine. I would add in some EQ or better yet primobolan if available but you can do just fine on test alone. Do NOT DO DECA if you are concerned about bloating. That can be the worst bloating agent in certain people. Diet is the key here. If you are saying that you are having a bloat problem then I assume your sodium and simple carb intake is too high? All test will convert to different degrees into estrogen and that's ok in controlled amounts because estrogen helps build muscle along with test by providing an ideal environment. There are so many estrogen receptors in fat cells it's crazy. So when we have too much estrogen in our body the H20 flows to these receptors in the fat cells like water to a sponge. So I would recommend something like armidex (SERM) to limit the amount of conversion. I bet your body fat is closer to 20% or better if you have it tested accurately? No slight to you so please don't take offense. So you need to concentrate and cleaning up your diet and sticking to your cardio from what I'm understanding. Good luck.

**stevey_6t9** · 12-10-2010, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by MBMETC

Elaborate please stevey

Originally Posted by anabolicextreme

I can see what stevey is saying about the drop. That was my main concern for timing and dosing. Now that I think about it, I feel that it would be tough to judge when to stop the prop and decide when the test e is really going to kick in. Ive had some trouble with unsteady test levels and sides in the past so i'm gonna just stick with test e for this cyc.. thanks guys

Originally Posted by in2shape

what sorta sides ?? did u do a prop test cyp/enth cycle ?

hope ya dont mind me joining in ya thread

cheers man goodluck with cycle !!!

if i can get some var ill run that or even tbol for 4 weeks at the moment tho i can only get tst test and more test !!! even suspension

i ran 500mg wk cyp and 100mg eod of prop for the first 4 weeks. So i was on 900mg of test the first 4 weeks... which is way to much to begin with.

As soon as i dropped the prop you go from 900 to 500mg, a huge jump... and as a result i got terrible sides.

**cro** · 12-10-2010, 10:07 PM

what sides did u get bro?

**anabolicextreme** · 12-10-2010, 10:22 PM

I would front load the prop at 200mgs the first 2 shots then 100mgs eod for your jump. the 500mgs test every week is fine. I would add in some EQ or better yet primobolan if available but you can do just fine on test alone. Do NOT DO DECA if you are concerned about bloating. That can be the worst bloating agent in certain people. Diet is the key here. If you are saying that you are having a bloat problem then I assume your sodium and simple carb intake is too high? All test will convert to different degrees into estrogen and that's ok in controlled amounts because estrogen helps build muscle along with test by providing an ideal environment. There are so many estrogen receptors in fat cells it's crazy. So when we have too much estrogen in our body the H20 flows to these receptors in the fat cells like water to a sponge. So I would recommend something like armidex (SERM) to limit the amount of conversion. I bet your body fat is closer to 20% or better if you have it tested accurately? No slight to you so please don't take offense. So you need to concentrate and cleaning up your diet and sticking to your cardio from what I'm understanding. Good luck.

Actually yeah deca was the main culprit in my bloating problem, not to mention the "rebound effect" i noticed after pct. I experienced a large amount of water retention as soon as i stopped pct after 4 weeks of nolva and clomid. Still havent managed to get it off completely, therefore 16% is an overstatement i'm probably closer to 14% without the water retention.
And yes I am definitely considering running an AI this time, just because I am rather susceptible to estrogen related side effects. Which ai do you guys prefer running during a cycle? hmm what a hard decision.. arimidex letro or aromasin ?

**Far from massive** · 12-10-2010, 10:27 PM

Thats why in my post I outlined a series of injections (although my numbers were off it was late at night LOL) in decreasing increments over weeks 1-5. From what I have read about esters if you run a long ester like E or C during the first weeks you will never see close to the blood level concentrations of test that you will see with an equivilent dosage of a short ester like prop, conversely after 4 weeks you will have a higher blood level concentration of test with the long ester than you would ever achieve with the same dosage of a short ester.

Due to this from what I understand if you were running 600 of E which by weeks 5-10 would result in blood level concentrations equal to at least 800mg per wk of prop. So to jump start the cycle if you ran the prop ed and ran 70ed for a total of 490 week 1 then 50ed for a total of 350 week 2 then 40ed for a total of 280 week 3 then 30 ed for a total of 210 week 4 then 30eod for 3 shots a total of 90 during week 5.

It seems this would keep the blood levels fairly consistant and avoid the drop off, seen with either jump starting with a steady dose of prop or a steady first 4 week dosage of an oral like D-bol.

**in2shape** · 12-10-2010, 10:32 PM

ive only got 10mls of prop so if i did 1 ml 3 x pw say mon/wed /fri ontop of my 2 mls of cyp (400mgs ) thats a total of 700 which would drop down to 400 mmmmmm decisoins or

would you extend cycle at week 10 whilst your waiting to start pct with the prop in a proper eod style ???

**stevey_6t9** · 12-10-2010, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by cro

what sides did u get bro?

severe cystic acne (stil have scars), gyno, heart palpitations, terrible LDL-HDL (even on statins).

**Far from massive** · 12-10-2010, 10:43 PM

Damn Stevey sorry to hear about the rough cycle.

**in2shape** · 12-10-2010, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

severe cystic acne (stil have scars), gyno, heart palpitations, terrible LDL-HDL (even on statins).

fuk me test cyp only it is !!!!!!

**anabolicextreme** · 12-10-2010, 10:47 PM

stevey i had almost all of those sides plus some pretty extreme hair loss

**Seattle Junk** · 12-11-2010, 04:27 AM

Armidex for sure. Letro almost blocks estrogen at 100% and that can really hinder your cycle. Unless you have a bad case of gyno then use letro and nolva.

**Seattle Junk** · 12-11-2010, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by hankdiesel

Water retention has been horribl? You're not even on a cycle. Maybe you have a little more bf than you think. If you are going to kickstart with prop, start day 1 with a shot or prop with a ml of the test E. Continue the prop eod till it's gone. By that time your 2x a week shots of test E will be kicking in. Also, 100mg of prop eod will be 350mg a week.

Most likely his PCT wasn't done right and he never fully recovered his HPTA. So estrogen is at a high ratio right now hence bloat.

**MBMETC** · 12-11-2010, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

severe cystic acne (stil have scars), gyno, heart palpitations, terrible LDL-HDL (even on statins).

Thank Stevie people need to hear this stuff
Sorry for you ,but it could help others

**Userat204** · 12-11-2010, 01:48 PM

Sorry to hear about the sides and rough cycle. If that happened to me I would stay away from all test. These are possible but in my experience I have never seen anyone react like that. Some acne, I get gyno, some raise in bp. It is essential to take all precautions and have AI or serm on hand along with pct prior to starting cycle