First timer Cycle

**Cacu** · 01-17-2011, 01:17 AM

Male, 37 - 235 lbs.

Anavar Pyramiding up to 50-60mg a day then back down Wk 1-8.
Test Prop. as a base ~150mg/WK Week 1-8
Novaldex Week 1-8 Gynomas protection
HCG - Week 1-8 Ballsack health and fitness
PCT - Clomid Wk 8-9. Bringing it back online.

Any opinions. Lifting 3-4 days a week. Metabolic conditioning 3x week.

**psa** · 01-17-2011, 02:19 AM

Why are you using anavar and prop as your "base"? You need an aromatase inhibitor like armidex on cycle, save the nolva for PCT, which should be about 4 weeks long, not two and should start after the prop has cleared your system

**Johnyonemove** · 01-17-2011, 02:34 AM

how many injections are you going to do with 150mgs? because of its half life it will be way out of ur system before the next week if u do it all in one shot. imo drop the anavar and bump the prop to 300mg/week. stick with one compound so u know how u react to it instead of trying ot assume one or the other is giving u a problem.

**MBMETC** · 01-17-2011, 05:29 AM

Run the prop 100mgs eod, keep the var at a steady dose no reason to pyramid. Pick up an ai (liquidex) from the board sponsor AR-R . hcg 250iu 2x last 4 weeks. Run clomid and nolva pct 3 days after last pin of prop
Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20

**marcus300** · 01-17-2011, 05:33 AM

How long have you been training?
Whats your bf?

**Cacu** · 01-17-2011, 03:03 PM

Been training hard for almost 2 years. No break. I need to periodize.
Been training on/off for about 10 years.

My bf is actually like 17%. On another thread I went with 13%. but I had a friend with caliper experience give me the real numbers.

No Pyramiding on the anavar ? Why not?
I thought it may make it a bit easier on my body to ramp on then ramp off.

**da11** · 01-17-2011, 03:30 PM

With those low doses I wouldnt even bother with an ai......I agree with MB - 100mg eod

**da11** · 01-17-2011, 03:33 PM

Btw......I would only run one or the other for ur first cycle......then u will know what is working for you. I ran 50mg anavar daily and 100mg eodf prop for 6 weeks and got decent results but that was my first time using anavar and I'm not sure it gave me anything above and beyond the prop benefits. Used adex .25mg eod for 1 week mid cycle then nolva 20mg/day for 3 weeks.

**Cacu** · 01-17-2011, 03:37 PM

Thanks MB.
Question:
I haven't trained for hypertrophy, EVER.
My main training is weightlifting, a bit of power and strength, and athletic performance.
Can I increase my training volume while I'm "on?"
Putting on some quality muscle will help my lifts as I have plenty of CNS development, but with more it would be able to recruit more muscle fibers.

For instance, I am lifting 4 days a week. One day is a split day. 2-3x a week I am doing sprinting or plyometrics.
I am assuming recovery will be swifter. But how swift? Can I train each of these 4 training times twice a week, effective doing double the amount of work I do when I'm not "on?"

Humbly look forward to your response.

**Cacu** · 01-17-2011, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

How long have you been training?
Whats your bf?

Marcus, do you think this is too much too little? I am not looking for massive muscle gain (although the vanity side of me would like it).
I want to increase athletic performance. Should I just go with anavar or drop it altogether?

**xnotoriousx** · 01-17-2011, 03:40 PM

That var is expensive!!!

**MBMETC** · 01-17-2011, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Cacu

Thanks MB.
Question:
I haven't trained for hypertrophy, EVER.
My main training is weightlifting, a bit of power and strength, and athletic performance.
Can I increase my training volume while I'm "on?"
Putting on some quality muscle will help my lifts as I have plenty of CNS development, but with more it would be able to recruit more muscle fibers.

For instance, I am lifting 4 days a week. One day is a split day. 2-3x a week I am doing sprinting or plyometrics.
I am assuming recovery will be swifter. But how swift? Can I train each of these 4 training times twice a week, effective doing double the amount of work I do when I'm not "on?"

Humbly look forward to your response.

Train to meet your goals, if strength is your need work on strength, if staying lean and adding a little mass is your desire than eat above maintenance and up the cardio if need be. I for one trained with more intensity while on cycle As strength was a main goal of mine so I challenged myself, but I also knew my max something you say you don't really train to. I suggest you know your limit before cycle and keep it in the back of your mind as to not injure yourself by pushing too hard too soon.

**Cacu** · 01-17-2011, 06:10 PM

@MBMETC

Correct, I don't train by max, if that means do high volume with lower weights off of my max. I am basically trying to move stuff really quickly. If I can get it, Great. If not, I haven't broken my p.r.

Would you say a 5x5 protocol would work? I have read a bunch on these boards but most of the programs are for hypertrophy. Could I up the frequency of a 5x5 training style?
For instance, can I train each sessions twice during the week when most times I train the sessions once. Or do a 3x1 routine, 3 days back to back and one day off?

**dec11** · 01-17-2011, 06:13 PM

mate, you need to do alot of research, you dont seem to know what your doing at all

**Cacu** · 01-17-2011, 06:32 PM

@MBMETC

Correct, I don't train by max, if that means doing high volume with lower weights off of my max. I am basically trying to move stuff really quickly. If I can get it, Great. If not, I haven't broken my p.r.

Would you say a 5x5 protocol would work? I have read a bunch on these boards but most of the programs are for hypertrophy. Could I up the frequency of a 5x5 training style?
For instance, can I train each sessions twice during the week when most times I train the sessions once. Or do a 3x1 routine, 3 days back to back and one day off?

**da11** · 01-17-2011, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

mate, you need to do alot of research, you dont seem to know what your doing at all

He sounds like he knows enough to me...on the gear and pct side of things as well as what works for him training wise. He is just looking at filling in some of the gaps. We've all been there and sometimes it just takes personal experience to find the right answers.

There is more than one way to skin a cat bro.

**Tigershark** · 01-17-2011, 11:09 PM

If I were you I would only use one compound for a first cycle. You need to know what these compunds do to your body before introducing other ones. And it might not be a bad idea to get your bf% down to around 12%.

**Cacu** · 01-18-2011, 12:53 AM

I've read an enormous amount on steroid , but personally, yes you are correct to say I don't know what I'm doing in that I've never done it before.

I don't think reading anymore or "absorbing" knowledge from these boards is going to help. Already "experienced" users have offered conflicting information.
Some say I always need Test as a base, especially to go with the Anavar , others offer that perhaps going with one is best. I don't fault anyone for having a particular way, just take exception to the idea that I'm clueless in my questions. It seems kind of twatish to be put down for asking intelligent questions especially when I've been a dedicated student of the human performance and barbell movements.

So at this point I need to choose one approach to try out first hand.

Given that I'm a newbie the conservative approach is most appealing. That is, getting on "one" to start.

My concern is total libido shutdown if I run Anavar for 8 weeks. Of course I'll be using HCG to keep the balls humming, but should I take another approach?

Opinions?

**Johnyonemove** · 01-18-2011, 01:15 AM

There are mixed opinions about whether or not to run Var with a test base, agreed, but it is pretty standard advice to suggest that a first cycle contain only one compound specificially test.

**da11** · 01-18-2011, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cacu

I've read an enormous amount on steroid , but personally, yes you are correct to say I don't know what I'm doing in that I've never done it before.

I don't think reading anymore or "absorbing" knowledge from these boards is going to help. Already "experienced" users have offered conflicting information.
Some say I always need Test as a base, especially to go with the Anavar , others offer that perhaps going with one is best. I don't fault anyone for having a particular way, just take exception to the idea that I'm clueless in my questions. It seems kind of twatish to be put down for asking intelligent questions especially when I've been a dedicated student of the human performance and barbell movements.

So at this point I need to choose one approach to try out first hand.

Given that I'm a newbie the conservative approach is most appealing. That is, getting on "one" to start.

My concern is total libido shutdown if I run Anavar for 8 weeks. Of course I'll be using HCG to keep the balls humming, but should I take another approach?

Opinions?

I agree 100% in that you probably won't absorb anymore definitive info from these boards.....there is just too much info with no true science behind a lot of it and it just gets confusing. There are some free ebook downloads on one of these forums....written by guys with tried and true experience. Some are written quite a few years ago but it might help piece things together.

If I were you, which I was in your same boat about 6 months ago, I would start with 50mg of test prop eod and see how you feel. I did that for 3 weeks and felt great.....it gave me a relatively low risk way of seeing how my body reacted to the test. I'm also 37 and my bf was probably around 15% pre cycle. I started getting sore nipples that seemed to always be hard and pointy so I did .50mg of adex day one then .25 eod for one week during weeks 3 and 4. Weeks 4-6 I bumped up to 100mg eod with no prob at all. My pct consisted of 20mg of nolva Ed for 3 weeks. Felt amazing except I got some sides from nolva during week 3.

You won't regret it.....train ur ass off though.

**Cacu** · 01-18-2011, 09:39 PM

@da11 -

Your response is greatly appreciated. I am trying to get the wife to agree to jab me if I go with a Test. I don't want to do it myself.

Funny, right now I'm training my ass off. Recovery is sucking. I find myself sleeping up to 10 hours after hard days. No good. Part of me is really resisting giving it a start. Some of the barbell gurus I've trained with really condemn AAS where I'm at in training. They feel one should suffer plateauing and learning how to get beyond it.
Perhaps there is some benefit in that struggle, but I'm a little old for the game.

Tell me, so you didn't do HCG , clomid or some sort of AI?

**da11** · 01-18-2011, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cacu

@da11 -

Your response is greatly appreciated. I am trying to get the wife to agree to jab me if I go with a Test. I don't want to do it myself.

Funny, right now I'm training my ass off. Recovery is sucking. I find myself sleeping up to 10 hours after hard days. No good. Part of me is really resisting giving it a start. Some of the barbell gurus I've trained with really condemn AAS where I'm at in training. They feel one should suffer plateauing and learning how to get beyond it.
Perhaps there is some benefit in that struggle, but I'm a little old for the game.

Tell me, so you didn't do HCG, clomid or some sort of AI?

Yeah it helps to have my wife on board. She won't pin me anywhere besides my glutes so when my ass started getting too sore I had to learn how to do my quads, delts, and I even did a few chest shots. I didn't have any probs at all. I had some soreness for a couple days with a few of the shots but nothing that was cause for concern at all.

As to your gurus at the gym.....They don't get what it means to be a hardgainer no matter how you train or eat and probably don't know about any of the benefits or truth about sides. Plus, it still takes work using gear...it just makes that work more fun and more productive. Life is too short and we aren't getting younger.

I had friends and colleagues that had aas experience and even high profile people telling me it was ok for years and I just didn't get it, even as a hardgainer. My bro and me played college baseball....my bro was drafted by the Braves. In college he broke his ankle. During rehab the Physical Therapist insisted that he do steroids to succeed at the next level and even then I couldn't believe my ears. I never thought in a million years I would ever put gear in my body. After much research talking with informed people I decided to give it a go. I wish I would have had more of an open mind back in college.

I really focused my research on the side effects and came to the conclusion that what I had been told or conditiioned about steroid use was not all true.

What sold me was when my bro in law, who is a doc, told me that for the past 10-15 years the studies show that men's hormone levels are depleting a lot sooner in life. Age 45 was the norm but now it's starting at 35. He offered to do bloodwork and give me prescription. Also, my good friend is a doc and we were talking and he openly said he will be starting testosterone injections as soon as he hits 45. We weren't even on the subject...he just offered that up so I was able to get him to open up a little more and I picked his brain for a while......Then I found out my good friend had been doing gear for 7 years off and on and he gave me the skinny. After that I was convinced that I could at least responsibly give it a try. I did my research and started. I'm glad I did it and can't wait to start another cycle.

I only went for 6 weeks so I didn't feel like I needed the HCG . Im doing an 8 week cycle next and I think I will do HCG 250iu 2x/week just to help with recovery. I don't wanna lose that hard earned muscle and expensive gear.

I used adex (arimidex /anastrozole??) which is an ai only when I felt the sore nipples. I took it for a week eod and didn't need it again.....even after I doubled my dose for the last 3 weeks....I was fine. I didn't bloat up or get acne. My libido and all that was fine.

The only time I felt under the weather was week 3 of pct with nolva.....low libido, hot flashes/sweats, irritibility. As soon as I stopped those symptoms went away. I probably should've used the adex for another week during pct to get rid of that estrogen floating around. Nolva will just stop the estrogen from binding to the receptors.....adex will get rid of most of it. I've been off for 6 weeks now and feel 100%....gonna get some bloodwork done to double check things before I start again in a few weeks.

Hope that helps

**Cacu** · 01-19-2011, 12:08 AM

@dec11 -

Great to have you on the boards.
Well then, what do you think of my cycle plans?

Anavar Pyramiding up to 50-60mg a day then back down Wk 1-8.
Test Prop. as a base ~150mg/WK Week 1-8
Novaldex Week 1-8 Gynomas protection
HCG - Week 1-8 Ballsack health and fitness
PCT - Clomid Wk 8-9. Bringing it back online.

I may drop the Test altogether and have a little less PCT to do.

**da11** · 01-19-2011, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Cacu

@dec11 -

Great to have you on the boards.
Well then, what do you think of my cycle plans?

Anavar Pyramiding up to 50-60mg a day then back down Wk 1-8.
Test Prop. as a base ~150mg/WK Week 1-8
Novaldex Week 1-8 Gynomas protection
HCG - Week 1-8 Ballsack health and fitness
PCT - Clomid Wk 8-9. Bringing it back online.

I may drop the Test altogether and have a little less PCT to do.

I did a cycle with var and test prop and wish I would have done one or the other. Not sure if I got much benefit from var at 50mg/day for 6 weeks. I wouldn't bother pyramiding var either. The var I had was capsule form from a reputable source but I will never know for sure if it was legit because the test was so good.

150mg of test is low IMO....try var only if u have it avail.....but, I think you would enjoy test at 50-100mg eod a lot more though. Get some arimidex to have on hand for estrogen sides and use nolva for pct.

**Cacu** · 01-19-2011, 11:04 AM

Well,

I am getting my stuff. But I will take 2 months to cut down to about 12% before I get "on."
I've already read of enough gyno and side issues with guys that are a bit pudgier around the middle. I want to do this well.

How is Test? My fear is I hear people talk about ending up on TRT after using Test a few times.

Is that overblown or really an inevitability once you start?

**dec11** · 01-20-2011, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by da11

He sounds like he knows enough to me...on the gear and pct side of things as well as what works for him training wise. He is just looking at filling in some of the gaps. We've all been there and sometimes it just takes personal experience to find the right answers.

There is more than one way to skin a cat bro.

dont get you at all here. anyone who is going to try and use 150mg prop pw clearly does not know what they are doing. i didnt flame, i pointed out the obvious

**dec11** · 01-20-2011, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Cacu

@dec11 -

Great to have you on the boards.
Well then, what do you think of my cycle plans?

Anavar Pyramiding up to 50-60mg a day then back down Wk 1-8.
Test Prop. as a base ~150mg/WK Week 1-8
Novaldex Week 1-8 Gynomas protection
HCG - Week 1-8 Ballsack health and fitness
PCT - Clomid Wk 8-9. Bringing it back online.

I may drop the Test altogether and have a little less PCT to do.

pct needs to be at least 3wks pref 4wks, nolva and clomid. test p at 150mg pw, crazy idea, pin 150mg test e or c once pw. i personally wouldnt bother with hcg on such a light cycle. dont use nolva for gyno UNLESS you get any symptoms, in which case 10mgs pd till it clears (ive gotten away with tht low dose on much heavier cycles) better still have adex to hand for it.

clomid 50/50/50/50
nolva 20/20/20/20

oh, and i wouldnt bother pyramiding the anavar, just go in at 60mgs although most on here would go for 80mgs

**MACHINE5150** · 01-20-2011, 09:53 AM

I wouldn't recomend test prop for a first cycle.. EOD injections and the pain associated with it is best left for someone that knows the ropes IMO. get some test E and run that at400mg a week for ten weeks.. don't try to reinvent the wheel.

**dec11** · 01-20-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

I wouldn't recomend test prop for a first cycle.. EOD injections and the pain associated with it is best left for someone that knows the ropes IMO. get some test E and run that at400mg a week for ten weeks.. don't try to reinvent the wheel.

i think he's only after a low dose of test in the backround, from what i can make of this anyway

**da11** · 01-20-2011, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

dont get you at all here. anyone who is going to try and use 150mg prop pw clearly does not know what they are doing. i didnt flame, i pointed out the obvious

If you would have read all of my posts you would've noticed that I said that 150mg/week was low a couple of different times.

On the flip side I did 50mg eod of test prop which is 175mg/week to test the waters (which that is what Cacu is wanting to do) and realized some decent gains as well as acquainting myself with the drug and how my body reacts.

**da11** · 01-20-2011, 05:14 PM

looks somewhat familiar......you must have read my posts after all

**Cacu** · 01-21-2011, 03:41 PM

Thanks all.
@dec11 - Really appreciate the info, mate. I had a candid talk with my old strength coach. Made me change my approach. I'm not competing anymore so he questioned why I would do a cycle and work toward performance.
He said at my age all that matters is hypertrophy.
Anyway, yeah I'm only trying to test the waters at first. But I will look into Test e and c as a weekly.