really need some EXPERT advice not just 2cents....

[faqfoo]

sorry, this might be kinda long.... im 35 (stats in previous posts) 3 weeks into my 4th cycle over about 7yrs. 2 pins a week 250mg sust. heres my problem. ive had pain in the lower right area where my liver is at the first and second rib for about 4 years. im in the military and have had xrays and liver tests (blood) and all have came up negative. they cant seem to find any problems (its the military... go figure) the pain has been managable the first 3.75 yrs or so but in the last coupla months has gotten steadily (and extremely more painfully) worse. it was probably stupid of me to start my cycle without further exploration of the problem but i figured its been this long and maybe its just a cracked rib or two (even though xrays showed nothing. but to even touch it now feels as if ive been cracked in the ribs with a bat. its time to go to a civilian hospital, but my problem is i cant.. while my insurance will allow me to go to the emergency room, all military insurance claims will be audited. i cant risk there being an issue and the military get ahold of the records. instant seperation.... i have 3 kids and am the sole supporter so that is OUT of the question. guess my questions are: how long will it take my blood tests or even a liver biopsey (if it goes that far) to not show positive for what im taking? is there any good produccts that WORK to clean my system so that i can go?? and how long would they take? also, if anyone else has had a problem like this, what was it? im praying for the rib outcome but drank pretty heavily enough for 3 people in a lifetime (quit that cold turkey bout a year ago) and was thinkin it might be liver karma bitin me in the ass! lol.. i really need some advice from EXPERIENCED people that have been around for awhile or even DR's on here ( i know there is some!) thanks alot guys, i appreciate it and appreciate the site..

[Far from massive]

Hello,

I am 55 and have HepC as a result of a blood transfusion in the 80s. I have been through the whole deal with initial elevated liver enzymes all the way through to a liver biopsy showing moderate fibrosis. Starting about 3 years ago I started experiencing moderate pain from my liver, this is caused by the liver swelling within its capsule causing discomfort. Let me point out that swelling of the liver sufficient to cause this kind of pain should easily be detectable in the form of highly elevated liver enzymes. In addition the pain will usually come and go with things like a tall glass of milk or a large bowl of ice cream ( milk products are hard for the liver to assimalate) I am no physician but unless you have some form of tumor or other problem that is very local then liver enzyme test should reveal the issue way before swelling causing stretching of the capsule and pain results.

As a side note testosterone injections are basically harmless to the liver, now orals are a whole different deal and can indeed cause liver problems if you are succeptable. Also Liv52 also marketed as LiverCare by Himalaya health care has completely stopped my liver pains even when eating a 250-300 gms per day of protein and running 900mg of Cyp and 600 of Deca so I would pick up some of this and see what happens if it does not help it will not hurt.

As far as going to the hospital and complaining of pain in your side its very unlikely they would have any reason to test for AAS so you probably have nothing to worry about in that regard.

Things other than the test which would be likely to irratate your liver would be tylenol taken for test flu or many other OTC and prescription meds as well as alcohol of course.

Well that's all I got as I say I am no doctor just a guy with some familiarity with liver problems.

[Lemonada8]

Be sure to not do any oral steroids because they are extremely harsh on your liver. Sounds like you have some liver cirrohis from drinking which isnt a huge deal just need to be careful with liver stuff.

like said above, they would need a reason to check HPTA levels (esp cuz they are so freakin expensive and insurance rarely covers it) so you would be ok there.. but i fu tell the doc ur on gear he cant legally say anything due to patient confidientally.

if it comes down to it, be sure to do a pct after ur cycle if u have to cut it short.

as for the liver reacting to the AAS, from what i gather ur on sus which is just a mixture of test esters. this shouldnt have much effect on liver other than glucose transport and such but the levels are fine.

Try some milk thistle for the liver,

when else does ur back hurt? like its a rib? all the time or only when u breathe heavily? that can help determine rib/liver

best of luck!

[faqfoo]

FFM and lemonada, i appreciaye both responses. i was expecting at least a few: "bro, lay off and go to the doc" responses. guess the title helped! lol.. i knew the sust wouldnt really affect my liver like 17a's would (sure would like some anadrol though! lol but knew it was out of the question) the psorosis thing.....maybe, but im not a doc. is that painful? and would enzyme tests (like ive had as recent as a few months ago) detect that? im definitley checkin out the milk thistle and what FFM suggested.. i wasnt worried that AS was affecting my liver in any way, just about goin to the doc and showin positive for AS if they started diggin (youre right lemonada.. too $$ to test. thats y military doesnt do it unless they suspect). the pain also isnt in my back, its in the front, bottom two rib area. didnt use to be able to feel it when i breathe deeply but sure as hell can now. mainly when i move suddenly,lay on my right side or stomach, and god almighty forbid that i touch the area! thabks for takin the time to read and giving thurough, more educationally sounding responses! any and all more are welcome! (no 2cents though please! lol)

[faqfoo]

oh, FFM forgot to ask... you said swelling in the capsule.. that makes sense, but would the pain localize itself to a particularly small area like mine? did that happen with you? i would think it would be an area of at LEAST a 1/3 size area that your liver covers because wouldnt the whole thing swell? not just one area?, but then again... thats why i never pursued a doctorate career! lol... thanks again, knowledge is power right?

[Bonaparte]

They aren't going to test your hormone levels (unless you give them a reason to) or do a drug test. Just go get checked out.

[Far from massive]

If you place your left hand across your stomach with the bottom edge of your hand where the palm meets the wrist just at the edge of the belly button the tip of your index and middle finger will be right at the area of the pain if your is simalar to where mine was.

And yes a simple liver enzyme test should have shown elevated liver enzymes way before any severe problem like this arose. These test are very cheap and usually part of a standard physical and would be the first thing done if they suspected any liver damage which with a drinking history they should. Then again they kept sending my old man home with ear drops saying he had an ear infection and when he got fed up and went to a civilian doc he sent him straight to the ER and the next day they were cutting open a cyst behind his ear that was 1/16" from boring through his skull into his brain.....So who knows.

[2jz_calgary]

wouldent hurt to throw in some NAC as well, as its a powerfull antioxidant and will work nicely with the milk thistle.

[Lemonada8]

this is sounding more and more like a mishealed rib fracture, you said that uve cracked ribs in the past, could be pinching something cuz theres a nerve ganglia there. see what a good ortho says, tell him ur pain esp with breathing and performing a valsalva maneuver, liver pain wouldnt be apart of this unless it would be swollen, but enzyme tests would have shown that. IF u can go to a DO and see what maniplation he/she can do.