Hey guys been around since 03 and need some advice on 1st cycle....

**speedfreak** · 03-29-2011, 10:11 PM

After years of convincing my wife.... I am going to start my first injectable cycle soon. I did anavar only cycle twice and I actually had excellent results but I would like to put on some more size this time around and then get lean.

Ok so:

Test E

1-12 weeks at 400mg a week
1-4 Dbol 20mgs

I am concerned about bloating. My wife says if I get too big or bloated she is going to throw the stuff down the toilet.....lol should I throw in arimidex 1/4 tab EOD? also what about adding var towards the end of the cycle to lean me out? or winny?. At the end of this I do not want to be a balloon. Also what are your opinions on the anthony roberts pct? should i follow that? thanks a bunch!

btw stats are

30 yrs old
190 pounds
not sure on bf% but its higher than it should be..

**ScotchGuard02** · 03-29-2011, 10:47 PM

You should keep your first cycle simple. Drop the Dbol and stick with just the Test E. Do the 12 week cycle, wait 3 weeks, then PCT with Nolva and Clomid.

**Flacco** · 03-29-2011, 10:50 PM

How tall are you? Dbol = Bloat You don't need it, and won't like its effects after the goals you've just stated. No need for dbol. Just stick with the Test. You'll love the results in the gym and in the bedroom. So will your wife. You could even cut it down to 300 mgs every three days and see great results. Why start out higher than you have to ya know? If you decide to run 400 every 3 days... I'd say cut the cycle down to 10 weeks. I've always found better results with shorter cycle. Even at 300, 10 is probably all that is necessary. 300 plus great diet, can be literally just as efficient as 400 with great diet. ITS ALL IN THE DIET. Can't give advice on anavar or armidex cuz I've never done it/needed it. But if you train and eat correctly, you be lean n mean at the end of the cycle. I have never done PCT, this will be my first proper cycle with PCT. I was always the youngan lookin for quick gains. I got em and lost em as quick as they came. I have no business recommending PCT.

**upperhandy** · 03-29-2011, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by speedfreak

1-12 weeks at 500mg a week
1-4 Dbol 25mgs

I am concerned about bloating. keep your diet super clean. drink 1 gallon of water a day (min) and keep salt to a minimum

My wife says if I get too big or bloated she is going to throw the stuff down the toilet. tell her you will do the same with her LOL

should I throw in arimidex 1/4 tab EOD? if you mean 0.25mg you can... i'd do ed

also what about adding var towards the end of the cycle to lean me out? or winny?.diet will work better than orals especially if your body fat is higher than it should be pct nolva 20/20/20/10 clomid 50/50/50/25 did wonders for me after my first test/dbol cycle

reply in bold

**speedfreak** · 03-29-2011, 11:21 PM

Thanks for the response so far guys.. Sorry I forgot to mention I am 5' 10".. The reason for the dbol was just to kick start the cycle.. Any more opinions on the adex? What about cardio? i was thinking 4x a week? 30 min? or is that too much? any help would be greatly appreciated so I can get the best results from this!!

**Flacco** · 03-29-2011, 11:48 PM

I think If your wife is gonna scratch the whole thing if you get too bloated, you should definitly drop the dbol and keep the test dose low. Less test = less bloat. 5'10 and 190 you're gonna bloat alot with dbol + alot of water and alot of test. And unless your jacked, you should drop 10-15 lbs before considering any steroids . Diet, Cardio, and low weight/high rep workouts for a couple months. Using juice right now would most certainly be a waste. And Using Dbol + Test at those doses, with your current weight, you're just gonna look like a really strong and stocky fat dude who's face looks like its gonna pop. You wife aint gonna appreciate that. A little Test and she'll be quietly looking forward to the start of your next cycle

I never do cardio except once a week I'll row for 10-15 minutes. I should be doing more. I don't think you can do "too much" cardio if you're trying to cut weight. Cardio is probably the healthiest thing for you. Maybe a day off here and there... But the purpose for you would be to burn fat/calories right? I don't think 4 times a week is too much at all.

It sounds like you still have quite a bit to learn as far as training and diet goes. I think you should tweak your diet and get into a good rhythum of excersizing before you consider any AAS.

**speedfreak** · 03-30-2011, 01:07 AM

Absolutely I will be getting to 175 or so before I actually start. I am just trying to get everything lined up in the mean time. I am pretty good at dieting and cutting the weight..Was on vacation for a week and put on a few pounds but my usual weight hovers around 180.

**lovbyts** · 03-30-2011, 02:55 AM

5' 10" 190 lbs is not a bad weight at all but it sounds like your BF% is to high. Getting down to 175 lbs is not bad but a better idea is to forget about the weight and concentrate more on the BF% so doing more cardio and getting back in the gym steady for a while before the cycle is best. If you can get your BF down to 12% or less the dbol should not be a problem if your diet is good, you keep the sodium to a minimum and plenty of water.

400mg of Test is a good solid 1st cycle. It's much better than people starting out at 500-600 first time. You dont need that much for good solid gains.

**dru23** · 03-30-2011, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

5' 10" 190 lbs is not a bad weight at all but it sounds like your BF% is to high. Getting down to 175 lbs is not bad but a better idea is to forget about the weight and concentrate more on the BF% so doing more cardio and getting back in the gym steady for a while before the cycle is best. If you can get your BF down to 12% or less the dbol should not be a problem if your diet is good, you keep the sodium to a minimum and plenty of water.

400mg of Test is a good solid 1st cycle. It's much better than people starting out at 500-600 first time. You dont need that much for good solid gains.

i 2nd this, and i also agree you should drop the dbol. the test will definitely suffice, dbol would almost be a waste on the 1st cycle, just let the test work its magic.

**speedfreak** · 03-30-2011, 01:37 PM

Agree 100%. I def want to get my bf % lower so like flacco said I dont want to walk around looking like a strong fat guy. Thats why I like the var because of no bloat and i put on some nice lean muscle. What I dont like about not being a little more on bigger/mass side is that when I am lean and gain a few pounds you can really tell but if I put on some mass it wont be as noticeable... any comments on the anthony roberts pct?? so whats the verdict?? test e 400 mgs for 8 or 12 weeks? no dbol .. what about running some var or winny at the end?? or should i just wait and run a cutting cycle after?

thanks!

**5x10** · 03-30-2011, 01:44 PM

i suggest you read swiftos pct guide, its backed with medical studies to prove results
enjoy your cycle, youve waited long enough

**SlimJoe** · 03-30-2011, 01:49 PM

If you where to run a cycle would stick to test cyp/ena 500mg a week maybe a few dianabol obv pct

**Far from massive** · 03-30-2011, 03:28 PM

Good luck on the cycle and the wife....will she pin glutes? if so you have found the perfect woman ;-) Another great read is Marcus's thread on priming for a cycle. This will really help with rapid gains. My personal feelings are as long as you stay hydrated eat clean and do lots of cardio then a test only cycle should not cause a lot of bloating and an AI used as needed will dry you out quickly if the need arises.

**speedfreak** · 03-30-2011, 09:36 PM

Far: Yes she will be pinning me

I tried to do a search for that thread on marcus priming for a cycle, a link would be much appreciated! So no var the last few weeks?

Any feedback on this PCT:

week 1-3
nolva 20mgs/ed
hcg 500iu/ed
aromasin 20mgs/ed
vitamin e 1000iu/ed

week4
nolva 20mg/ed
aromasin 20mgs/day

week 5-6
nolva 20mgs/ed

Start PCT 2 weeks after last shot?

**speedfreak** · 03-31-2011, 09:42 AM

I have heard people use adex at .25mg ed or .50 eod from day 1 till cycle end.. any thoughts?!

**Eazy20** · 04-03-2011, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by speedfreak

I have heard people use adex at .25mg ed or .50 eod from day 1 till cycle end.. any thoughts?!

Entirely your call. I never run an AI during cycle unless I start to have estrogen related sides. I don't like to take things unless I need them. My body is already being put through enough with just the gear...And elevated estrogen via aromatase is easier to bring down than a messed up lipid profile while on cycle. That being said, I always have one on hand before I start cycle.

**speedfreak** · 04-03-2011, 03:15 PM

bump

**Sgt. Hartman** · 04-03-2011, 03:28 PM

Priming thread: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g..&highlight=

IMO aromasin >arimidex . They will both keep your estrogenic sides and water retention down, but too low of estrogen levels can inhibit gains. Best bet is keep some on hand if needed.

**Jfew44** · 04-03-2011, 03:38 PM

I only use an AI if my estrogen gets too high. Low sex drive while on test, ect. I love dbol to kickstart a cycle. IMO you won't get much bloat on 20mgs/day. Make sure your diet is on point and you should be fine. Also, I would bump your nolva to 40mgs for the first week or two

**Flier** · 04-03-2011, 03:39 PM

I´m 4 weeks into the same cycle you are proposing.
10 weeks 420mgs cyp., and 4 weeks 20 mg Dbol .
Aromasin 10 mg EOD, HCG 250iu E4D

Really can´t see much bloat, although I gained 10lbs first 10 days.
Maybe the Aromasin at work...
Did BW 2 weeks in, and test and estro is off the charts.

I kinda liked the Dbol kickstart effect.
The look, bloat/vascular, is definitely a result of diet.
Even after 4 weeks on Dbol I still have vains all over my arms, some shoulders and chest.

And....almost forgot...I´m on a 6 months HGH 4.5iu ED cycle as well. That may make my experience useless for your planning purpose....dunno.