Clomid or Clomid + Nolva

[dirtyluke1]

Hey Guys i will be starting my tern/test cycle soon just wonderin if clomid will be enough or should i get nolva as well??? or nolva a waste of cash??
is ts been over 2 years since my last cycle .....cycle is
weeks 1-12 test enth 500mg/week
weeks 1-8 tren enth 400mg/week
weeks 1-5 d-bol or tbol dont know yet
weeks 1-13 Hcg 250iu twice a week
PCT
clomid 100/100/50/50
unleashed + post cycle
Forma Stanzol
Do i need nolva?? or waster of cash?
thanks

[ScotchGuard02]

That's a strong cycle. I'd do both clomid 100/100/50/50 and nolva 40/40/20/20 for PCT.

[5x10]

i would run them both along with hcg (up until you start your serms) and aromasin

[kelevra]

i would run them both along with hcg(up until you start your serms) and aromasin

^^^^ Yes, and be careful with dosing of Clomid. Scotch above knows what he is doing for his body, he has been around awhile, but high doses of Clomid can cause emotional issues and vision probs.

[Turkish Juicer]

I don't know where you are getting the idea but Nolvadex is never waste of your money for PCT. In my PCT experiences, Nolvadex has proven itself to be the most valuable PCT component alone even on minimal dosages, which in fact stands for the fact that Nolva is gold.

Most people here will tell you to employ both Clomid and Nolva for PCT ''just to hit it from different angles.'' This claim has no scientific basis. Endos never prescribe both drugs to their patients simultaneously because there is no point in doing as such, unless you really want to increase the possibilities of side effects.

I have always successfuly recovered from my cycles with 6 weeks of Nolvadex 20 mg ED. Of course, the fact that HCG 300 i.u. E3D was included throughout my cycles also contributed to a great extent in these recoveries. In every clinical study I have come across with regarding Nolvadex dosage and duration, results indicated that a) duration is the determinant, not dosage b) whether 40 mg ED instead of 20 mg ED dosage is more effective in restarting the HTPA is not a scientifically backup claim.

[5x10]

I don't know where you are getting the idea but Nolvadex is never waste of your money for PCT. In my PCT experiences, Nolvadex has proven itself to be the most valuable PCT component alone even on minimal dosages, which in fact stands for the fact that Nolva is gold.

Most people here will tell you to employ both Clomid and Nolva for PCT ''just to hit it from different angles.'' This claim has no scientific basis. Endos never prescribe both drugs to their patients simultaneously because there is no point in doing as such, unless you really want to increase the possibilities of side effects.

I have always successfuly recovered from my cycles with 6 weeks of Nolvadex 20 mg ED. Of course, the fact that HCG 300 i.u. E3D was included throughout my cycles also contributed to a great extent in these recoveries.

dr scully studies(in swiftos pct guide) show the utiliztion of both serms to successfully bring back AAS users

from experience, my nolva only pct got my test levels to 214, i then did clomid, waited a month, and had a 640
this next pct, to help ensure a full recovery, i will be utilizing low doses of both for 4-5 weeks
last cycle, i didnt do hcg either, this cycle i am, so im sure that had something to do with my recovery

[Flier]

By Michael Scally MD:

"Clomiphene is a synthetic derivative an estrogen. Clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Tamoxifen is a pure estradiol receptor antagonist. Clomid acts as an estrogen, rather than an antiestrogen, by sensitizing pituitary cells to the action of GnRH. Although tamoxifen is almost as effective as Clomid in binding to pituitary estrogen receptors, tamoxifen has little or no estrogenic activity in terms of its ability to enhance the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. The estrogenic action of Clomid at the pituitary represents a unique feature of this compound and that tamoxifen may be devoid of estrogenic activity at the pituitary level."

"In the over one-thousand patients I have treated for HPTA normalization after AAS cessation i have used the combination of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. I have used clomiphene citrate alone in many cases. I added tamoxifen to the protocol to see if I could get a better clinical response. This seemed to be the case although I have not had the opportunity to evaluate the data. When both compounds are used the clomiphene citrate is discontinued first and the tamoxifen is continued for 2 more weeks."

[Turkish Juicer]

dr scully studies(in swiftos pct guide) show the utiliztion of both serms to successfully bring back AAS users

from experience, my nolva only pct got my test levels to 214, i then did clomid, waited a month, and had a 640
this next pct, to help ensure a full recovery, i will be utilizing low doses of both for 4-5 weeks
last cycle, i didnt do hcg either, this cycle i am, so im sure that had something to do with my recovery

OK, I know that he is a leading endo and I have a lot of respect for Dr. Michael Scally for all the valuable information he has shared with the BB world. I will take any of his work into serious consideration without a second thought. However, I have a question for you: for how long did you run your Nolvadex alone PCT to get your test levels to 214? I am assuming 4 or 5 at the most?

[Turkish Juicer]

By Michael Scally MD:

"Clomiphene is a synthetic derivative an estrogen. Clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Tamoxifen is a pure estradiol receptor antagonist. Clomid acts as an estrogen, rather than an antiestrogen, by sensitizing pituitary cells to the action of GnRH. Although tamoxifen is almost as effective as Clomid in binding to pituitary estrogen receptors, tamoxifen has little or no estrogenic activity in terms of its ability to enhance the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. The estrogenic action of Clomid at the pituitary represents a unique feature of this compound and that tamoxifen may be devoid of estrogenic activity at the pituitary level."

"In the over one-thousand patients I have treated for HPTA normalization after AAS cessation i have used the combination of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. I have used clomiphene citrate alone in many cases. I added tamoxifen to the protocol to see if I could get a better clinical response. This seemed to be the case although I have not had the opportunity to evaluate the data. When both compounds are used the clomiphene citrate is discontinued first and the tamoxifen is continued for 2 more weeks."

I wish his statement included how long each drug were used. As I have stated in my original post, clinical studies I have come across with that were performed to determine whether Nolvadex 20 mg ED can successfuly restart HTPA were conducted for 6 full weeks to get positive results, as opposed to 4 or 5 weeks.

[5x10]

OK, I know that he is a leading endo and I have a lot of respect for Dr. Michael Scally for all the valuable information he has shared with the BB world. I will take any of his work into serious consideration without a second thought. However, I have a question for you: for how long did you run your Nolvadex alone PCT to get your test levels to 214? I am assuming 4 or 5 at the most?

yeah, probably 4 at the most, and it was from a chemical research company(could have been bunk), now i have pharma grade nolva
hcg was done prior to pct, for a few large injections, not throughout the cycle like this time

i am not a fan of clomid, it made me depressed(for the first time in my life), quit it after a week or so
it was also from a chem research company, and i think i was doing 50mgs a day
thats why i plan on trying 25 mgs(pharma grade)
if it gives me hell, i have torem as a backup

[Turkish Juicer]

yeah, probably 4 at the most, and it was from a chemical research company(could have been bunk), now i have pharma grade nolva
hcg was done prior to pct, for a few large injections, not throughout the cycle like this time

i am not a fan of clomid, it made me depressed(for the first time in my life), quit it after a week or so
it was also from a chem research company, and i think i was doing 50mgs a day
thats why i plan on trying 25 mgs(pharma grade)
if it gives me hell, i have torem as a backup

Hmmm, I see. I live in Istanbul, TR where every and each pharmacy carries Nolvadex D-20, available without a prescription for dead cheap. Similar story for Clomid, other than price being higher. So, not only I had no question marks in my mind regarding the effectiveness of my upcoming Nolva PCT, I also suffered from literally no side effects throughout those 6 weeks. As a matter of principle, I will never use anything that is not %100 human grade, whether it is AAS or other stuff we are talking about. I always stick with pharma grade Primobolan Depot, Sustanol 250 and Test Enanthate 250 whenever I plan a cycle as far as injectibles go. I would define myself a melancholic person to begin with, which is why I do not want to mess with Clomid in the first place.

After reading the article ''Letrozole , the new anti-estrogenic T booster'' on ergo-log, I might give this one a shot in my next PCT and see how my blood work turns up compared to that of alone Nolvadex PCT results.

[Flier]

Hmmm, I see. I live in Istanbul, TR where every and each pharmacy carries Nolvadex D-20, available without a prescription for under 6 USD a box of 30 pills. Similar story for Clomid, other than price being higher. So, not only I had no question marks in my mind regarding the effectiveness of my upcoming Nolva PCT, I also suffered from literally no side effects throughout those 6 weeks. As a matter of principle, I will never use anything that is not %100 human grade, whether it is AAS or other stuff we are talking about. I always stick with pharma grade Primobolan Depot, Sustanol 250 and Test Enanthate 250 whenever I plan a cycle as far as injectibles go. I would define myself a melancholic person to begin with, which is why I do not want to mess with Clomid in the first place.

After reading the article ''Letrozole , the new anti-estrogenic T booster'' on ergo-log, I might give this one a shot in my next PCT and see how my blood work turns up compared to that of alone Nolvadex PCT results.

]

How about Toremifene?
Have u looked into it?
I´m trying to figure out myself which SERM(S) to use, and which ones work best together.
From what I can find on Toremifene, it outperforms both Clomid and Tamox in restoring the HPTA with less sides.

[Matt]

Hmmm, I see. I live in Istanbul, TR where every and each pharmacy carries Nolvadex D-20, available without a prescription for under ** USD a box of 30 pills. Similar story for Clomid, other than price being higher. So, not only I had no question marks in my mind regarding the effectiveness of my upcoming Nolva PCT, I also suffered from literally no side effects throughout those 6 weeks. As a matter of principle, I will never use anything that is not %100 human grade, whether it is AAS or other stuff we are talking about. I always stick with pharma grade Primobolan Depot, Sustanol 250 and Test Enanthate 250 whenever I plan a cycle as far as injectibles go. I would define myself a melancholic person to begin with, which is why I do not want to mess with Clomid in the first place.



After reading the article ''Letrozole , the new anti-estrogenic T booster'' on ergo-log, I might give this one a shot in my next PCT and see how my blood work turns up compared to that of alone Nolvadex PCT results.

******************

Please remove that link and the price discussion in this post...

[Turkish Juicer]

Please remove that link and the price discussion in this post...

I just did. Although I am particularly confused about the request for removal of the link?

[5x10]

try aromasin over letro
no estrogen rebound

must be nice to be able to get pharma grade stuff at will!

[kelevra]

^^^^ Yes and not as harsh

[Turkish Juicer]

I am looking into Toremifene right now.

So, you guys know about Letrozole ? Any first hand experiences?

[MR10X]

I am looking into Toremifene right now.

So, you guys know about Letrozole? Any first hand experiences?

Yes thats some strong shit,if you use too much it will kill your sex drive. i use 1.25mg every 3 days,it has a 6 day half life.

[dirtyluke1]

clomid + nolva it is then......thanks

[warlord_wang]

Yea bump on Toremifene, I want to know is it worth using over clomid & nova. Toremifene is really expensive compared to the other two but if it works a lot better I will use it instead