what do you think abot my JUNE-JULY lean mass cycle?

[cloud_strife]

hi guys, I am 30yo, 83kg@10bf right now, i would like to start a lean mass cycle in summer

here it is(pls click on the image)

[D7M]

Age?
height?
previous cycles?

[Turkish Juicer]

I am not going to comment about this cycle only because you have not stated your stats.

However, I will tell you as an experienced Primobolan user that there are certainly more than one flawed aspect of this cycle that needs to be fixed before the start.

[cloud_strife]

i am 30 years old and 5 ft 10 inches tall

when I started bodybulding I was around 57 kg, went the natural way up to 75 but quite fat, now 83kg but leaner

i did 4 cycles before this:
1 )in 2007 sustanon 250mg ew + deca 200mg ew for 8 weeks (worked well)
2) in 2008 sustanon 250mg + equipoise 400mg for 12 weeks(didnì't work, fake gear i think)
3) in 2009 sustanon 325mg + deca 275mg for 8 weeks (worked very well)
4) last was....test cypionate 250mg ew + winstrol 50mg ed +deca 200mg ew for 6 weeks (worked well)

pls help cause I read a lot of info but i get confused all the time...for example on chemical muscle enhancemente they say for primo minimum is 200mg ew, but anthony roberts says minimmum is 350mg

[warren916]

Wow not a good cycle AT ALL.
Why are you pyramiding your stuff??
Your making it WAY to confusing, and wasting alot of money...
Your not allowing enough time for these chemicals to saturate your body.
Winny for 2 weeks??? C'mon man, its gonna take about that long just to get it in your system.
Keep it simple.
My Rec

Drop the prop, proviron , GH, and winny (winny is to harsh for what you get, not logical)

Test E 400mg/week 1-12
Primo 500mg/week 1-12
T-bol 30-40mg/day 1-5
Anavar 40-60mg/day 8-12
HCG 500iu/week 2-12
Aromasin 12.5/eod, ed if needed

PCT
Aromasin 12.5/day 14-16
Clomid 100mg/day 14-16
Nolvadex 40mg/day 14-16
Clmomid 50mg/day 16-19
Nolvadex 20mg/day 16-19

PCT is aggressive, changes can be made there.

[Turkish Juicer]

I have run 4 very successul Primobolan Depot cycles thus far, after a couple years of natural body building and passed the age 26. However, I have read every available resource and talked to many vets before I made up my mind about a solid and intelligent cycle. I researched AAS, Primobolan Depot and Testosterone variants in particular for about 2 years before I had completely designed my first cycle, which is most likely why I have never had to stop a cycle due to an issue nor have I ever not attained a cycle goal by the end of it.

Everyone will tell you a different story with Primobolan Depot but the facts yet remain: It is a slow working, high quality and low risk & low side effect pharma grade muscle builder with a seemingly low anabolic to androgenic ratio. Most likely due to its heavy molecular weight, which results in painful shots for some people, producers decided to make 100 mg amps and quite obviously, a user will have to go through several Primo amps throughout the week for a successful cycle for attaining quality gains. Since it is a DHT derivative, one needs not to worry about estrogen related issues but for those who are genetically predisposed, hair loss may be an issue in long term use especially on higher dosages. There will be most likely an increment in amount of hair in the body as well as temporary prostate hypertrophy.

In my personal experience, a weekly 200 mg Primo injection will mostly serve an anti-catabolic purpose in a cycle, as well as preventing the body from developing further BF. Double-egde AAS the Primo is, on higher dosages such as 600 mg+ it becomes a wonder drug that stimulates massive protein synthesis in a very lean manner, stimulating quality gains; whereas, in a cutting cycle where the subject is on a strict diet, it protects the muscle tissue to a great extent and also helps with strength to keep weights at where day should be. Of course, you have to make sure your gear is real and you have to be very careful with Primobolan in this respect, since it is one of the most faked steroids after all.

After a careful investigation of your cycle sample, here is a list of my humble advices:

1. Do not pyramid your gear, there is no point in doing so in a 8 week cycle. Besides, your starting dose for Primobolan is next to nothing, it will only disappoint you with such small dosage.

2. As is, an 8 week Primo cycle is less than ideal, even though 8 week cycles are quite optimal. You are better off extending the use of Primo to the 8th week also, you'll just have to start your PCT one week later thay way but the biological presence of the drug during the lag will also serve an anti-catabolic purpose without an increment in your estrogen levels so it is a good thing, actually.

3. Wistrol 50 mg ED for the only first 2 weeks of your cycle? That does not make any sense. Drop the gear if you are not going to do it properly.

4. Where is your anti-e in this cycle? You cannot count on Proviron during a strong cycle like this, if no one has told you that yet... Drop Proviron and save yourself some money to spend on Arimidex during your cycle and Nolvadex + Clomid for PCT.

5. Do not wait until your cycle is over for employing HCG . What is the point of shutting yourself down first and trying to restart your HTPA later when have the option to do vice versa? Be smart.

6. Oral-Turinabol ? Could you even explain that in a convincing manner as to why it is even there at all and why for the last 2 weeks of your cycle only? That is indeed odd.

7. GH 3 i.u. a day for the 3 weeks. Why? Are even aware that a solid GH cycle consists of daily injections that may last for several months? This is just going to be a waste of your money...

You need to keep this cycle simple and working. Drop Winstrol, Oral-Turinabol, Proviron and GH altogether. Instead, get some Arimidex, many more Primobolan Depot vials and more protein with your money for this cycle.

There are so many flaws with this cycle, I think I am just going to redesign it for you and here it is:

Week 1-8: Primobolan Depot 700 mg (100 mg ED), Test E. 500 mg, Anavar 80 mg ED, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD.
Week 2-12: HCG 300 i.u. E3D

PCT: Starts 15 days after your last Test E. shot, and lasts for 6 weeks. I doubt you will also need Aromasin and/or Letrozole on top of these two compounds below, especially considering that you will have employed HCG regularly throughout your cycle. Although, you can always throw one of those in there if Nolva + Clomid seems to be not doing it well enough for you.

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/100/50/50 ED

[cloud_strife]

Wow not a good cycle AT ALL.
Why are you pyramiding your stuff??
Your making it WAY to confusing, and wasting alot of money...
Your not allowing enough time for these chemicals to saturate your body.
Winny for 2 weeks??? C'mon man, its gonna take about that long just to get it in your system.
Keep it simple.
My Rec

Drop the prop, proviron , GH, and winny (winny is to harsh for what you get, not logical)

Test E 400mg/week 1-12
Primo 500mg/week 1-12
T-bol 30-40mg/day 1-5
Anavar 40-60mg/day 8-12
HCG 500iu/week 2-12
Aromasin 12.5/eod, ed if needed

PCT
Aromasin 12.5/day 14-16
Clomid 100mg/day 14-16
Nolvadex 40mg/day 14-16
Clmomid 50mg/day 16-19
Nolvadex 20mg/day 16-19

PCT is aggressive, changes can be made there.

wow thanks some questions for you(I would like to know WHY i did many mistakes^_^)
1. you both agree on the fact that pyramiding is bad, why is this? I have read about pyramiding in a Rea book(start with a strong androgen-test and end with an anabolic -primo)

2. so 12 weeks is optimal? would 10 be too little?

3.what do you mean winstrol has a very short half life, it gets into my system in 1 day... and I was using it to gain some strenght at the beginning of the cycle...why is it pointless?

4.is tbol good in your opinion? i am looking something stronger that winstrol but not harsh as dianabol , would that be ok?

[cloud_strife]

I have run 4 very successul Primobolan Depot cycles thus far, after a couple years of natural body building and passed the age 26. However, I have read every available resource and talked to many vets before I made up my mind about a solid and intelligent cycle. I researched AAS, Primobolan Depot and Testosterone variants in particular for about 2 years before I had completely designed my first cycle, which is most likely why I have never had to stop a cycle due to an issue nor have I ever not attained a cycle goal by the end of it.

Everyone will tell you a different story with Primobolan Depot but the facts yet remain: It is a slow working, high quality and low risk & low side effect pharma grade muscle builder with a seemingly low anabolic to androgenic ratio. Most likely due to its heavy molecular weight, which results in painful shots for some people, producers decided to make 100 mg amps and quite obviously, a user will have to go through several Primo amps throughout the week for a successful cycle for attaining quality gains. Since it is a DHT derivative, one needs not to worry about estrogen related issues but for those who are genetically predisposed, hair loss may be an issue in long term use especially on higher dosages. There will be most likely an increment in amount of hair in the body as well as temporary prostate hypertrophy.

In my personal experience, a weekly 200 mg Primo injection will mostly serve an anti-catabolic purpose in a cycle, as well as preventing the body from developing further BF. Double-egde AAS the Primo is, on higher dosages such as 600 mg+ it becomes a wonder drug that stimulates massive protein synthesis in a very lean manner, stimulating quality gains; whereas, in a cutting cycle where the subject is on a strict diet, it protects the muscle tissue to a great extent and also helps with strength to keep weights at where day should be. Of course, you have to make sure your gear is real and you have to be very careful with Primobolan in this respect, since it is one of the most faked steroids after all.

After a careful investigation of your cycle sample, here is a list of my humble advices:

1. Do not pyramid your gear, there is no point in doing so in a 8 week cycle. Besides, your starting dose for Primobolan is next to nothing, it will only disappoint you with such small dosage.

2. As is, an 8 week Primo cycle is less than ideal, even though 8 week cycles are quite optimal. You are better off extending the use of Primo to the 8th week also, you'll just have to start your PCT one week later thay way but the biological presence of the drug during the lag will also serve an anti-catabolic purpose without an increment in your estrogen levels so it is a good thing, actually.

3. Wistrol 50 mg ED for the only first 2 weeks of your cycle? That does not make any sense. Drop the gear if you are not going to do it properly.

4. Where is your anti-e in this cycle? You cannot count on Proviron during a strong cycle like this, if no one has told you that yet... Drop Proviron and save yourself some money to spend on Arimidex during your cycle and Nolvadex + Clomid for PCT.

5. Do not wait until your cycle is over for employing HCG . What is the point of shutting yourself down first and trying to restart your HTPA later when have the option to do vice versa? Be smart.

6. Oral-Turinabol ? Could you even explain that in a convincing manner as to why it is even there at all and why for the last 2 weeks of your cycle only? That is indeed odd.

7. GH 3 i.u. a day for the 3 weeks. Why? Are even aware that a solid GH cycle consists of daily injections that may last for several months? This is just going to be a waste of your money...

You need to keep this cycle simple and working. Drop Winstrol, Oral-Turinabol, Proviron and GH altogether. Instead, get some Arimidex, many more Primobolan Depot vials and more protein with your money for this cycle.

There are so many flaws with this cycle, I think I am just going to redesign it for you and here it is:

Week 1-8: Primobolan Depot 700 mg (100 mg ED), Test E. 500 mg, Anavar 80 mg ED, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD.
Week 2-12: HCG 300 i.u. E3D

PCT: Starts 15 days after your last Test E. shot, and lasts for 6 weeks. I doubt you will also need Aromasin and/or Letrozole on top of these two compounds below, especially considering that you will have employed HCG regularly throughout your cycle. Although, you can always throw one of those in there if Nolva + Clomid seems to be not doing it well enough for you.

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50/50 ED

questions:

(1) why is pyramiding pointless? maybe dosages were too conservative, anyway...Author L Rea writes about starting with a very androgenic drug and ending the cycle with an anabolic drug... but all the people are telling me my implementation is worthless...

(2) well maybe I could use primo for 10 weeks if it's slow working.....??

(3) i thought to use it as a kick-start for strenght....

(4) well maybe your modifications made it TOO strong for me.... I think Primobolan Depot 400 mg (100 mg ED), Test E. 400 mg would be better, or is primo needed in such a higher dose than deca?
I didn't know proviron wasn't strong enough....thank you!!

(5) well if i remember right I have read that if you use HCG for longer than 4 weeks "something" loses sensibility and shuts down LH production, is that a myth?

(6) honestly I wanted to "try " it, see what it does : )

(7) i was thinking about trying to remove some subcutaneous fat under the nipples....and testing if GH would work for that
AND i thought it might help me not too lose the result during the PCT

if you have time please reply to my questions because I am quite confused and want to know more.... I was reading an italian forum but some methods are very different....

[Turkish Juicer]

questions:

(1) why is pyramiding pointless? maybe dosages were too conservative, anyway...Author L Rea writes about starting with a very androgenic drug and ending the cycle with an anabolic drug... but all the people are telling me my implementation is worthless... OK, we are talking about a Primo cycle in here. If you start pyramiding from 200 mg/week to 500 mg/week, you will be performing a useless action. As is, optimal weekly dosage of Primo is 600-800 mg. I can confirm this by first hand experience. 400 mg weekly injections will also work but such dosage is rather conservative for Primo and hence results will be nowhere close to the recommended dosage. That is simply the nature of Primobolan, not much to discuss furter.

(2) well maybe I could use primo for 10 weeks if it's slow working.....?? An ideal Primobolan cycle would be a 12+ week cycle; however, you have to be very serious about having stacked your HCG vials before beginning the cycle and getting regular HCG injections of 200-300 i.u. E3D throughout your cycle because that is indeed a long time for your testicles to be shut down. This will result with testicular dysfunction. Otherwise, your PCT will be a bitch and you may possibly end up in TRT like many people.

(3) i thought to use it as a kick-start for strenght... Drop Winny. Save yourself many more ED injections and the infamous pain that comes with it. Winny has no place in this cycle, not in a way it would make sense at the least.

(4) well maybe your modifications made it TOO strong for me.... I think Primobolan Depot 400 mg (100 mg ED), Test E. 400 mg would be better, or is primo needed in such a higher dose than deca? Yes, Primobolan is needed in a much higher dose than Deca. In fact, as I have previously mentioned, Primobolan maybe a great AAS on some levels but it is one of the weakest on a mg basis comparison with most other AAS including Deca.
I didn't know proviron wasn't strong enough....thank you!!Proviron is very unreliable on its own. Most users will even disagree with the claim that it creates synergy when used with other compounds. It cannot be trusted IMO.

(5) well if i remember right I have read that if you use HCG for longer than 4 weeks "something" loses sensibility and shuts down LH production, is that a myth? Many endocrinologist who work with AAS users strongly advice them to employ HCG throughout their cycles at an ideal dose of 200-300 i.u. twice a week with 3-4 days in between injections. Again, this is for maintaining a regular testicular function and making your recovery much easier and faster once your cycle is over.

(6) honestly I wanted to "try " it, see what it does : )

(7) i was thinking about trying to remove some subcutaneous fat under the nipples....and testing if GH would work for that
AND i thought it might help me not too lose the result during the PCT This is almost funny. Eat clean, lift heavy and hard, do your cardio and subcutaneous fat is not there anymore. Do not mess around with GH if you don't know what you are doing, which you clearly do not.

if you have time please reply to my questions because I am quite confused and want to know more.... I was reading an italian forum but some methods are very different....

Read the assertions above carefully and hopefuly you are not confused any longer.

[cloud_strife]

Read the assertions above carefully and hopefuly you are not confused any longer.

yes thank you, you helped a lot. but.... if I wanted to use 600mg primo instead of 700 and 400mg test c (not 500) only (see below), would the same cycle work well anyway?



Week 1-8: Primobolan Depot 600 mg , Test E. 400 mg, Anavar 80 mg ED, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD.
Week 2-12: HCG 300 i.u. E3D

PCT: Starts 15 days after your last Test E. shot, and lasts for 6 weeks. I doubt you will also need Aromasin and/or Letrozole on top of these two compounds below, especially considering that you will have employed HCG regularly throughout your cycle. Although, you can always throw one of those in there if Nolva + Clomid seems to be not doing it well enough for you.

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50/50 ED

[cloud_strife]

i was thinking about trying to remove some subcutaneous fat under the nipples....and testing if GH would work for that
AND i thought it might help me not too lose the result during the PCT This is almost funny. Eat clean, lift heavy and hard, do your cardio and subcutaneous fat is not there anymore. Do not mess around with GH if you don't know what you are doing, which you clearly do not.

yeah but the fat near the nipples doesn't go away anyway....

[Turkish Juicer]

yes thank you, you helped a lot. but.... if I wanted to use 600mg primo instead of 700 and 400mg test c (not 500) only (see below), would the same cycle work well anyway?



Week 1-8: Primobolan Depot 600 mg , Test E. 400 mg, Anavar 80 mg ED, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD.
Week 2-12: HCG 300 i.u. E3D

PCT: Starts 15 days after your last Test E. shot, and lasts for 6 weeks. I doubt you will also need Aromasin and/or Letrozole on top of these two compounds below, especially considering that you will have employed HCG regularly throughout your cycle. Although, you can always throw one of those in there if Nolva + Clomid seems to be not doing it well enough for you.

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50/50 ED

Primobolan 600 mg a week will work just fine. It is a good dose afterall.

You don't need to run Clomid for 6 weeks. Run it for 4 weeks at 100/100/50/50. Nolvadex, however, needs to be run for 6 weeks for better results.

The most critical aspect of this cycle is that neither Primobolan Depot nor Test E. are the most ideal choice of gear for a relatively short 8 week cycle. I would recommend switching to Test Prop 100 mg EOD injections for faster and better results. Another option would be extending this cycle to 12 weeks and keeping everything as is.

[cloud_strife]

The most critical aspect of this cycle is that neither Primobolan Depot nor Test E. are the most ideal choice of gear for a relatively short 8 week cycle. I would recommend switching to Test Prop 100 mg EOD injections for faster and better results. Another option would be extending this cycle to 12 weeks and keeping everything as is.

so mmh if I wanted to do a properly formed 8 week cycle , which products should i use with prop? cause I don't think primo has shorter esters. npp again?

[JasonCFT]

lots of good info...thanks

[dec11]

8wks of primo is a total waste. ideally 800-1000mgs minimum 16wks

[Turkish Juicer]

so mmh if I wanted to do a properly formed 8 week cycle , which products should i use with prop? cause I don't think primo has shorter esters. npp again?

For a proper and effective 8 week cycle Trenbolone Acetate with an active life of 2-3 days would be much better choice than Primobolan Depot, IMO. With such short active life, just like Test Prop, it enters and leaves your body quickly, which means it is very quick to act, delivering fast results. I would strongly recommend, however, you do your research very well about Trenbolone Acetate before you mess with it, for a couple of obvious reasons:

1. It is by far the strongest and mostt effective AAS known to humans, with considerably high side effects commonly experienced by users such as extreme sweating, sleeping problems, vivid dreams and nightmares, anxiety (usually in those who already suffer from it), some also report increased aggression, infamous tren cough (not everyone experiences it) and so forth.

2. As far as I know, it comes only in veterinerian grade so you will have to get it from black market. Make sure you are not being ripped. Make sure you are getting the Acetate version instead of the Enanthate version. Again, Tren E is the long estered version, which makes it not the ideal choice of gear for a short 8 week cycle.

On a mg basis, BBs who have experimented with it swear that there is nothing as strong and effective as Trenbolone. You should be more than happy with the results if you follow a 100 mg EOD injection protocol with Tren A.

So, your 8 week cycle would look like this:

Week 1-8: Tren A 100 mg EOD, Test Prop 100 mg EOD, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD, HCG 250 i.u. E3D

PCT starts 4 days after your last injection of either gear.

Also, if you are not on a bugdet and would like to experiment with this cycle by adding a quality oral steroid , I would suggest Anavar 80 mg ED for 8 weeks. Contribution of this compound to your cycle would be on levels of increased strength, a higher rate of fat burn and higher rate of protein sythesis as well as quicker and better recovery (obviously) leading to a quality & lean mass gain during the cycle.

[cloud_strife]

for now I am not using trenbolone because I am not that advanced i.e. I did many errors in my previuos cycles

maybe I will substitute primo with the cheaper deca, would it be ok anyway? I am a bit short of money

Week 1-8: nandrolone decanoate 300 mg , Test E. 400 mg, Anavar 80 mg ED, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD.
Week 2-12: HCG 300 i.u. E3D

PCT: Starts 15 days after your last Test E. shot, and lasts for 6 weeks.
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50/50 ED

[cloud_strife]

other posts

my training
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...er-need-a-plan

my diet(beta)
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-diet-for-mass

[Far from massive]

If you are going to substitute Tren with Nandrolone make sure its Nandrolone PhenylProprionate or NPP not Deca as the Deconate ester is one of the longest acting hard to clear compounds there is. Also I would not be Skerred of the Trenbolone Acetate, just run a small amount (300-350mg) and you will still see good results without horrible sides. PS if you don't see any problems in the first couple of weeks you could increase your dosage, say if you started on 400 Test Prop and 300 TrenA go to 500 Test Prop and 400 Tren A, you will see some really good growth on this combo at this dosage level still without the problems caused by long term shutdown.

Also one other note whether you run Test Prop with NPP or Tren I would reccomend you run the Test Prop a week longer than the other choice so that the Tren or NPP can clear your body while you are still adding exogenous Test to your system this will make your recovery much quicker.

Also earlier you asked about running HCG for more than 4 wks being a problem, this is only if it is run in very large doses. Run the HCG 250IU's every third day starting on day 3 and ending on day 59 and you will see very good protection from shrinkage and your PCT will be much smoother ( and yes start your PCT 4 days after your last shot of Prop) than if you had not run HCG or only run it a month.


And believe me a 8 wk blast of TrenA (preffered) or NPP and Test Prop will not be nearly as hard on you as your planned cycle, and your growth will be much better.

Enjoy.

[dec11]

i am 30 years old and 5 ft 10 inches tall

when I started bodybulding I was around 57 kg, went the natural way up to 75 but quite fat, now 83kg but leaner

i did 4 cycles before this:
1 )in 2007 sustanon 250mg ew + deca 200mg ew for 8 weeks (worked well)
2) in 2008 sustanon 250mg + equipoise 400mg for 12 weeks(didnì't work, fake gear i think)
3) in 2009 sustanon 325mg + deca 275mg for 8 weeks (worked very well)
4) last was....test cypionate 250mg ew + winstrol 50mg ed +deca 200mg ew for 6 weeks (worked well)

pls help cause I read a lot of info but i get confused all the time...for example on chemical muscle enhancemente they say for primo minimum is 200mg ew, but anthony roberts says minimmum is 350mg

man, you really dont know what you are doing with these compound, some are being run way too short and at way too low dosages.

[dec11]

For a proper and effective 8 week cycle Trenbolone Acetate with an active life of 2-3 days would be much better choice than Primobolan Depot, IMO. With such short active life, just like Test Prop, it enters and leaves your body quickly, which means it is very quick to act, delivering fast results. I would strongly recommend, however, you do your research very well about Trenbolone Acetate before you mess with it, for a couple of obvious reasons:

1. It is by far the strongest and mostt effective AAS known to humans, with considerably high side effects commonly experienced by users such as extreme sweating, sleeping problems, vivid dreams and nightmares, anxiety (usually in those who already suffer from it), some also report increased aggression, infamous tren cough (not everyone experiences it) and so forth.

2. As far as I know, it comes only in veterinerian grade so you will have to get it from black market. Make sure you are not being ripped. Make sure you are getting the Acetate version instead of the Enanthate version. Again, Tren E is the long estered version, which makes it not the ideal choice of gear for a short 8 week cycle.

On a mg basis, BBs who have experimented with it swear that there is nothing as strong and effective as Trenbolone. You should be more than happy with the results if you follow a 100 mg EOD injection protocol with Tren A.

So, your 8 week cycle would look like this:

Week 1-8: Tren A 100 mg EOD, Test Prop 100 mg EOD, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD, HCG 250 i.u. E3D

PCT starts 4 days after your last injection of either gear.

Also, if you are not on a bugdet and would like to experiment with this cycle by adding a quality oral steroid , I would suggest Anavar 80 mg ED for 8 weeks. Contribution of this compound to your cycle would be on levels of increased strength, a higher rate of fat burn and higher rate of protein sythesis as well as quicker and better recovery (obviously) leading to a quality & lean mass gain during the cycle.

how will the addition of anavar to a tren cycle aid and speed up recovery? explain

[Turkish Juicer]

how will the addition of anavar to a tren cycle aid and speed up recovery? explain

Addition of any AAS to a cycle will aid and speed up recovery of muscles in principle. This is the underlying logic of stacking.

I am surprised you needed an explanation for it.

[cloud_strife]

If you are going to substitute Tren with Nandrolone make sure its Nandrolone PhenylProprionate or NPP not Deca as the Deconate ester is one of the longest acting hard to clear compounds there is. Also I would not be Skerred of the Trenbolone Acetate, just run a small amount (300-350mg) and you will still see good results without horrible sides. PS if you don't see any problems in the first couple of weeks you could increase your dosage, say if you started on 400 Test Prop and 300 TrenA go to 500 Test Prop and 400 Tren A, you will see some really good growth on this combo at this dosage level still without the problems caused by long term shutdown.

Also one other note whether you run Test Prop with NPP or Tren I would reccomend you run the Test Prop a week longer than the other choice so that the Tren or NPP can clear your body while you are still adding exogenous Test to your system this will make your recovery much quicker.

Also earlier you asked about running HCG for more than 4 wks being a problem, this is only if it is run in very large doses. Run the HCG 250IU's every third day starting on day 3 and ending on day 59 and you will see very good protection from shrinkage and your PCT will be much smoother ( and yes start your PCT 4 days after your last shot of Prop) than if you had not run HCG or only run it a month.


And believe me a 8 wk blast of TrenA (preffered) or NPP and Test Prop will not be nearly as hard on you as your planned cycle, and your growth will be much better.

Enjoy.

mmh okay. tren next cycle (in autumn), now i would like to use shorter esters of nandrolone and test

Week 1-8: nandrolone phenypropionate 300 mg , Test propionate 400 mg, Anavar 80 mg ED, Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD.
Week 2-12: HCG 300 i.u. E3D

PCT: Starts 5 days after your last Test shot, and lasts for 6 weeks.
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50/50 ED

[cloud_strife]

man, you really dont know what you are doing with these compound, some are being run way too short and at way too low dosages.

that's why I am asking this forum for advice....cause I did too many ignorant choiches in the past