Anavar for Ehlers Danlos

**Dufresne** · 09-10-2011, 04:54 PM

Hi Everyone, I just wanted to post my story here in case anyone was in my situation and had some experience with this or advice. I have been a long time reader of this forum this is my first time posting. I am not your typical AAS user on this forum. My stats are 5’7, 232 lbs, 29 years and 30 or so % body fat. I have been through a number of debilitating injuries in the past 6 yrs, which lead me to those current stats. At 23 years I was 180 lbs and 11% body fat, natural. Training was my life. I had been in the gym with my dad on and off since I was 12, steady since 19. I have recently been diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos syndrome, which is essentially a collagen mutation in my DNA. Dr.s say there is no treatment. It makes my joints loose, elastic and weak, leading to stretchy skin and frequent dislocations/tears/tendonitis in my joints. At 23 I was diagnosed with frozen shoulder and could not move my right arm for 2 years. Yeah, SUCKED! Couldn’t even drink a cup of coffee with it. Anyone who has had that can testify to the agonizing pain. Long story short I started to heal 1 month before my surgery date, which was good, as I think everyone can agree surgery is always a last resort. One month after I recovered, I twisted wrong while at work and herniated 3 discs in my back and was doped up on percocets, unable to walk for months. I have just recently recovered fully from this. But the past years have been very hard. I was up to 250 lbs at one point when I was unable to move. 5’7 and 250 lbs, I have been depressed for years. I have tried everything to get back into training to no avail. Either my knees, shoulders or back flare up and I have to take it easy for at least a few weeks. Not conducive to getting back into shape. Unable to accept that there is no treatment and my training life was over, I started searching for alternative methods and came across studies on collagen synthesis and many different AAS. Im already a big dude for my size and put muscle on very easily so I started looking at Oxandrolone studies, as it doesn’t add much to muscle mass. Intrigued, I asked the Dr. He looked it up, thought it was interesting but was unable to prescribe it as it is illegal where I live. He said once again that there is no treatment and the only thing I can do is to be in extremely good shape so my muscles are strong enough to compensate for the weak tendons. That was fine with me but after being on the couch for six years, I couldn’t get my muscles to that strength without injury. But I knew of a source for AAS though so I asked to get some and use myself as a guinea pig. As far as fitness goes I have nothing to lose is what I was thinking. I have three kids and I can’t even play catch without injuring my shoulder. I was well aware of the idea of test as a base but like I said, I build muscle too easily and being 232 at 5’7, I’m already too big for my height. And I’d also rather not have family (other than my wife, who supports me) know I’m testing random drugs on myself. I have also read that test will dramatically reduce collagen synthesis, kind of counter productive to what I am trying to achieve here. So I am in my second week at 50mg var ED. I have to say that I have not had workouts like this since before my string of injuries. I feel great. No pain, incredible pumps. I know the gains are not necessarily permanent but I just need to retain some tightness and strength. Only problem is that I am having to use Ephedrine/Caffeine to have any energy to train. Shortly after I dose in the morning, and afternoon, I crash hard. My diet is clean and on point, so I am attributing this possibly to the fact that I am not running test and my natural levels have dropped dramatically. Nevertheless, I have been plugging away 5 days this week, 6 days last and am down to 224 lbs and muscle mass is already building. So far so good. But I do have some test prop coming as well with some Nolvadex in case this energy situation worsens. Any recommendations on how to run this stuff for my current situation? Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this, I know it’s long but wanted to give the most info I could. I doubt anyone here has ehlers danlos, as its very rare, but any guidance or suggestions based on your expertise of AAS would be greatly appreciated.

**Bonaparte** · 09-10-2011, 05:41 PM

Interesting. My little brother has a milder form of this condition (I think).
Where do you live that your doc "could not" prescribe Var?

**Dufresne** · 09-10-2011, 06:19 PM

I live in Canada. Everything seems to be illegal here. Health Canada is very strict. Yes the degree of Ehlers can vary greatly. There are people out there much worse than i am. There are 9 different types, each affecting different collagens in different ways. My type can go from having your joints so loose that you are unable to even walk as there is absolutely no stability (on the extreme end of the spectrum) to having very little noticeable symptoms, e.g.: stretchy skin/atrophic scarring and or mild joint problems/subluxations etc...

**Lemonada8** · 09-10-2011, 06:23 PM

LOL, talk about timing, i have a test on monday that actually includes this condition. Basically there is a mutation in the enzymes that help the cross-links of collagen to be formed. These enzymes require 2 things, Copper and Vit C. Be sure to take a multivit that contains both of these or take individual (what i would do) supplements to, in a sense, flood your body with enough of the necessary vit/min to make your enzymes as effecient as possible.
So, take a supplement of Copper and Vit C. Careful with the copper though, there is some toxicity as high amounts.

also found this thread buried deep here :P
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ssue-Strength&

Another thing you can look into is HGH, and peptides.
GHRP, and GRP will help increase natural GH release and production.
IGF/MGF may be of some value, but since there is no injury associated it may not have much effect due to it would be needed to be anabolic vs theraputic.

IMO, i would go with a low dose of anavar to minimize suppression and look into HGH, or the GH secretologues.
If you want to go the deca route or AAS route, make sure you have a TRT dose of test in there. That will help keep everything going and help prevent further issues from coming. *didnt see the bit with u have prop coming. that will be rough with a TRT dose and has less estrogen conversion which in your case you would want. You may wanna look into cyp or enth to help keep a TRT dose. And those have slightly higher aromatization which would, in turn, increase IGF levels.

and be careful using stimulants to help train, yes you will get a major crash afterwards. Look into b12 supplements, thats one of the big things in the 5 hour energy shot, and that can help keep your energy levels high.

have you ever had any genetic testing done?

**Dufresne** · 09-10-2011, 07:09 PM

Lemonada8: Thanks for the info. Yes I am vigilant about taking my multivits, I will have to pick up some copper though and B12. My problem with the crashing is if i don't take the stimulants for training. It's just from the Var. I am not very familiar with HGH. I have thought about it as well but thought the AAS route may be a little milder to start out with. What would a cycle look like with it though? The reason I went with prop is that i am already into my second week of var and only have 8 weeks worth at 50mg ED so I needed something fast acting as I'm probably only going to have 6 weeks worth left by the time the prop arrives. I could have gone with just prop as a starter and gone with cyp or enth afterwards i guess. I just liked the idea of it all being out of my system quickly. Definitely not going to be a fan of stickin myself every other day but I am so committed to finding a way around this ehlers, i'll deal. Any ideas on how much I would run for a TRT dose, and for how long? Any test/var stacks I have seen usually have var at the tail end and I am wondering if I should just throw prop in there for the middle 4 weeks, go right till the end of the var cycle or extend past it.

I have been told that there is no genetic testing they can do for type one Ehlers. The testing is more for Vascular Ehlers which effects the organs. This is at least what the docs tell me, that it is just a clinical diagnosis. I am currently waiting to see a geneticist and am hoping for some type of drug trial if there is something fairly close to me. But I am not hopeful and these things take a lot of time to get into. And with my luck I'd be in the control group anyway lol.

**mac_angel** · 10-03-2011, 05:00 PM

Hi, guys. I just joined because of this thread. Reading through it I found some great info, and honestly a lot of these guys know way more about the juice than I do. That being said, I'm not going to try to say that what I'm gonna write is bible. I'm only going to share my own experiences and you can take it as what ever info as you see fit.
I have also just been diagnoses with EDS. I'm 39 and I've been on long term disability for a long time now. For the longest time the doctors were either saying that the pain and problems I was having was in my head, or that they just couldn't figure out what it was, other than early onset of osteo-arthritis. My family doctor asked me some specific questions and when I saw her last Friday she told me she's pretty sure I have EDS. No, we didn't do the tests yet, but she says she's willing to bet money on it that it's the cause of my problems and I trust her (you need to be able to trust your family doctor). I've had a number of injuries, all joint related. Never broken a bone in my body, but I've dislocated both my knees, my shoulder, etc.
Anyways, instead of going on bitching about my personal problems I'll get on with it. I knew I had arthritis years ago, and a lot of people said Deca was good for your joints. 3 years ago I tried a cycle, with text-E to help avoid Deca-dick. I was using low dosages. I'm not looking for performance enhancers, just something that will help me out through the summer so I can be more active. I have to say that it works for me. I'm in about as much pain as I am normally, but it's also because I'm able to be more active. And with all types of arthritis all the doctors will tell you that you need to loose weight and keep healthy. Excersizing can, and usually will hurt your joints during and after, but a lot less than if you were overweight and out of shape.
I have also tried HGH the first year (three years ago). I believe that works well as well. Just really freakin' expensive. Too expensive for me, sadly, since I'm on ODSP (Ontario Disability). I try to keep up with regular suppliments as well. Protien, multivitamins, Glucosamin/Chondroitin/MSM, Calcium/Magnesium, and Omega 3/6/9. I also did a great job loosing weight last spring because I stopped fruit juices and switched to home made iced tea and artificial sweeteners. I just found out a bunch of stuff about how bad artificial sweeteners are, especially for your joints, so I stopped them and also put on some weight since. I can't blame the weight all on the home made iced tea though. My diet has gotten bad since my dad went into the hospital for cancer and has been doing really badly. I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I don't do drugs, other than what the doctor gives me. I stress eat though. Not huge ammounts, just certain foods are "feel better foods" for me. Personally, I think that's a lot better of an alternative than drinking or drugs.
Anyways, this is turning into a novel and going to blow up the forum post and I don't want to take it over. Just giving my own experiences and hoping we can share back and forth since we're all new to it.
One more thing I did want to add and ask. From what I've been told, and reading online, weight training with EDS is bad. Puts strain on your joints. Sucks because I like to look good, just as much as the next guy. I have a Tower200 on the door and I use that for exersising. Uses pullies and bungie cords so it's ideally the same as dyna-bands used in physio. My point, please be careful with the type of exersises you're doing when you have EDS.
My question is I can't find a good fat burning excersize that doesn't involve strain on my knees. My knees can dislocate cycling. Obviousy running, skipping, etc, is out. Swimming would be ideal, but no public pools close by. My next guess is the exersise disk.

**mac_angel** · 10-04-2011, 09:14 AM

btw, I might be able to help you with supplies in Canada.

**Dufresne** · 03-10-2012, 02:27 PM

Hi mac_angel and anyone else interested. I have not been on for a while now and realized I had never updated this post for people like you out there who are curious. I did a little trial and error with my cycle. It first started out as anavar only, which was great. I was able to do exercises without pain. After two weeks or so i was waking up in the morning without severe pain in my shoulders and back and it felt like a miracle. The only problem was that i was really tired approaching the third week. I attributed this to my test being suppressed and it was hard to get my ass to the gym some days. I got some test prop and started pinning at .7ml EOD. Within a week my energy was back and so was my pain. Figuring the test was screwing with the collagen benefits of the var, I ended up stopping the test after 3 weeks with pain in my elbows and a lingering strain to my left brachioradialis that is plaguing me to this day, and finishing the last two weeks on my var with with nolva as pct. Now, being 4 months later, my strength and muscle size have maintained and my strength continues to climb. The only issues I am having are with my lower back which I did not work at all during my cycle for fear of injury which would take me out of the gym. And even this pain is a fraction of what it used to be. But for everything that I did train, it appears that my theory worked. I have no problems with my shoulders, which was one of my biggest concerns, and am doing 70 lb dumbbell military presses. My knees never swell up anymore and I am still doing and hour elliptical every morning) and training legs like crazy. The only issue is my mild pain in lower back which was non existent while on cycle, and my elbows still have mild pain when doing any heavy "hammer grip" triceps extensions. So a couple days ago I started my second cycle of var at 50mg ED to strengthen my back and possibly help what is happening in my elbows. I am expecting the low energy/libido again but it is short term and not a big issue for me. I'll push through it with stims if need be. But over all, I haven't felt better, or been stronger in over 6 years! It's great! Gonna take it easy with my back but will let you know the progress hopefully sooner this time. Always bothers me when someone posts problems on forums that relate to me, gets all this feedback and advice, and then doesn't follow up to tell you if anything worked. Better late than never I guess. Oh, not sure on my exact fat loss but knowing my body through diets in the past, I figure I have also lost around 30 lbs of fat as well as put on approximately 10 lbs of muscle. Which puts me at 212 lbs. Slow and steady for over 6 months of training I know. And I have a long way to go but with continued perseverance, I am now confident that I can get there.

**mac_angel** · 03-11-2012, 03:04 PM

awesome. Thanks for keeping us updated.
I'm turning 40 in May and for the past couple of years I have been cycling Deca and Test in the summer, starting in April. Semi-low dosages and 20 week cycles to help me be more active through the summer with my son (he turns 4 in April). Winter, I don't care as much since I hate the cold and don't go out much anyways. Thing is, I wasn't diagnoses with EDS until just recently, after I have been doing my Deca/test cycles. I've had problems with my joints for a long time, especially my knees, but the doctors haven't been able to figure out why. And same with being prone to get tendonitis really easy as well. I've been on disability for a long time, but they only just put a name to it. Shitty thing is, it seems that it's excelerating a bit more lately. More joints, more pains, etc. I was told not to lift weights when you have EDS. It's good to exercise, but not heavy lifting because it will damage your ligaments in the long run. Better to do resistance training - dynabands, cables, etc.
Anyways, I was interested in what dosages you used and how long you were on Anavar . Also, if you use Vit B injections, how much do you use for that. It was suggested that I might want to just keep on low dosages of Deca permanently since it works well for me. I'm curious about what the problems might be for that, if anyone knows, as well as what would be considered a low dosage for a permanent solution.

**Bonaparte** · 03-11-2012, 06:14 PM

Next time, just stack the var with 100mg of test E or C weekly. It won't cause you any issues.

**Windex** · 03-11-2012, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dufresne

I live in Canada. Everything seems to be illegal here. Health Canada is very strict. Yes the degree of Ehlers can vary greatly. There are people out there much worse than i am. There are 9 different types, each affecting different collagens in different ways. My type can go from having your joints so loose that you are unable to even walk as there is absolutely no stability (on the extreme end of the spectrum) to having very little noticeable symptoms, e.g.: stretchy skin/atrophic scarring and or mild joint problems/subluxations etc...

Very true. Bloodwork alone is a bloody nightmare. Which province?

**mac_angel** · 03-11-2012, 07:46 PM

I'm in Ontario. They had to send my blood work to the states for EDS. I'm still waiting on the results. Already had my first echo-cardiogram, and ultrasound of my gall bladder.
I have a good 'friend' in BC that I can get all my suppliments from.

**Dufresne** · 03-12-2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by mac_angel

awesome. Thanks for keeping us updated.
I'm turning 40 in May and for the past couple of years I have been cycling Deca and Test in the summer, starting in April. Semi-low dosages and 20 week cycles to help me be more active through the summer with my son (he turns 4 in April). Winter, I don't care as much since I hate the cold and don't go out much anyways. Thing is, I wasn't diagnoses with EDS until just recently, after I have been doing my Deca/test cycles. I've had problems with my joints for a long time, especially my knees, but the doctors haven't been able to figure out why. And same with being prone to get tendonitis really easy as well. I've been on disability for a long time, but they only just put a name to it. Shitty thing is, it seems that it's excelerating a bit more lately. More joints, more pains, etc. I was told not to lift weights when you have EDS. It's good to exercise, but not heavy lifting because it will damage your ligaments in the long run. Better to do resistance training - dynabands, cables, etc.
Anyways, I was interested in what dosages you used and how long you were on Anavar. Also, if you use Vit B injections, how much do you use for that. It was suggested that I might want to just keep on low dosages of Deca permanently since it works well for me. I'm curious about what the problems might be for that, if anyone knows, as well as what would be considered a low dosage for a permanent solution.

I didn't do any vit injections. Just the var run at 50 mg ED for 8 wks. Ran test prop at .7 ml eod for wk 4-6. I'm not the one to answer any questions regarding long term use or really any use for that matter. I am no expert on this by any means. But as far as ehlers goes, I have my fair share of experience with issues. Mind you, my case is somewhat mild compared to many out there, and I am not trying to encourage people to use aas to fix it as it may make many people worse. I know some have said not to train with ehlers, but they may have more serious conditions than me. I just thought I'd mention that as I would feel terrible if someone was left in a worsened state after trying what I have because their condition is more severe. I too have young kids. 2 boys under 4 and one on the way. A large part of this is so I can be an active dad and also to be able to give them options once they get older as I know my eldest has it. 2 different doctors have recommended weight training as the only option for me to strengthen my muscles to hold the joint in place to compensate for the weak tendons and ligaments. The problem is that the mutation causes weak tendons and ligaments, this is not something that can be fixed with bands. Many physiotherapists have made me do that but always ends up much worse. When you put a heavy load on them like bands or negative reps do you're straining them and they don't get stronger as they can't, genetically. So instead the remain damaged For a time. Chances are longer than your next workout. So I stick to weights. Started of very light many times, but could never get past "Girly" weight until the var. And I found the test was counterproductive. Although from bonapartes comment, I was probably running too much.

**Dufresne** · 03-12-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Next time, just stack the var with 100mg of test E or C weekly. It won't cause you any issues.

Thx. Will try that next time I guess. Too late for that now though I think as I'm on day 4 and only going for 6 wks. Was probably running too much then at .7 ml eod of prop?

**Dufresne** · 03-12-2012, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

Very true. Bloodwork alone is a bloody nightmare. Which province?

I am in bc. Not even sure how to get bloodwork here privately. Any advice on where to go or what to ask for?

**Dufresne** · 03-12-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by mac_angel

awesome. Thanks for keeping us updated.
I'm turning 40 in May and for the past couple of years I have been cycling Deca and Test in the summer, starting in April. Semi-low dosages and 20 week cycles to help me be more active through the summer with my son (he turns 4 in April). Winter, I don't care as much since I hate the cold and don't go out much anyways. Thing is, I wasn't diagnoses with EDS until just recently, after I have been doing my Deca/test cycles. I've had problems with my joints for a long time, especially my knees, but the doctors haven't been able to figure out why. And same with being prone to get tendonitis really easy as well. I've been on disability for a long time, but they only just put a name to it. Shitty thing is, it seems that it's excelerating a bit more lately. More joints, more pains, etc. I was told not to lift weights when you have EDS. It's good to exercise, but not heavy lifting because it will damage your ligaments in the long run. Better to do resistance training - dynabands, cables, etc.
Anyways, I was interested in what dosages you used and how long you were on Anavar. Also, if you use Vit B injections, how much do you use for that. It was suggested that I might want to just keep on low dosages of Deca permanently since it works well for me. I'm curious about what the problems might be for that, if anyone knows, as well as what would be considered a low dosage for a permanent solution.

I didn't do any vit injections. Just the var run at 50 mg ED for 8 wks. Ran test prop at .7 ml eod for wk 4-6. I'm not the one to answer any questions regarding long term use or really any use for that matter. I am no expert on this by any means. But as far as ehlers goes, I have my fair share of experience with issues. Mind you, my case is somewhat mild compared to many out there, and I am not trying to encourage people to use aas to fix it as it may make many people worse. I know some have said not to train with ehlers, but they may have more serious conditions than me. I just thought I'd mention that as I would feel terrible if someone was left in a worsened state after trying what I have because their condition is more severe. I too have young kids. 2 boys under ; and one on the way. A large part of this is so I can be an active dad and also to be able to give them options once they get older as I know my eldest has it. 2 different doctors have recommended weight training as the only option for me to strengthen my muscles to hold the joint in place to compensate for the weak tendons and ligaments. The problem is that the mutation causes weak tendons and ligaments, this is not something that can be fixed with bands. Many physiotherapists have made me do that but always ends up much worse. When you put a heavy load on them like bands or negative reps do you're straining them and they don't get stronger as they can't, genetically. So instead the remain damaged For a time. Chances are longer than your next workout. So I stick to weights. Started of very light many times, but could never get past "Girly" weight until the var. And I found the test was counterproductive. Although from bonapartes comment, I was probably running too much.

**anactivegrenade** · 11-24-2012, 11:23 AM

My apologies for resurrecting an old thread. I joined this forum just because of this thread. I'm in the process of contacting a medical geneticist in my area to see whether or not I have any genetic connective tissue disorder, like EDS. I've went from athletic to side-lined because of numerous joint injuries that simply refuse to heal. I'm scared shitless because I desire to become a strength and conditioning coach, but I can't see it happening if the rest of my life is an uphill battle against joint degradation.

Dufresne, how are you doing now? Have you repeated more var cycles since then? I'm wishing all is well, as your thread gave me a bit of hope.

**Dufresne** · 03-19-2013, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by anactivegrenade

My apologies for resurrecting an old thread. I joined this forum just because of this thread. I'm in the process of contacting a medical geneticist in my area to see whether or not I have any genetic connective tissue disorder, like EDS. I've went from athletic to side-lined because of numerous joint injuries that simply refuse to heal. I'm scared shitless because I desire to become a strength and conditioning coach, but I can't see it happening if the rest of my life is an uphill battle against joint degradation.

Dufresne, how are you doing now? Have you repeated more var cycles since then? I'm wishing all is well, as your thread gave me a bit of hope.

I am doing well. I haven't run a cycle since my last var cycle a year ago. It shut me down pretty hard and took a good 4 months to recover my libido after a second PCT of both Nolva and Clomid for 4 weeks. I never lost any of the strength gained from the var though and just built on top of it. Lower back is stronger, no pain in shoulders, Overhead Dumbbell press is up to 100 lbs, bent over dumbbell rows at 130lbs for 12 reps, and am able to do deads and squats with ok weight. My squats are up to 350 lbs or so for 8 reps and deads I keep around 300. If I go higher on either I can feel slight pain in my back and want to play it safe. I have to keep on top of abs and oblique training to lessen pain in my lower back too. But all in all, pretty damned good when considering that I spent nearly half of my 20's on a wheelchair or cane! I still have problem with my elbow joint when going heavy with some tricep exercises (60lb one arm overhead dumbbell is usually when the pain hits) but I really don't need to go that high anyways. And the mild bicep pain (from running test briefly) was not cured from the second round of var, but eventually resolved itself after about another 4 months after my second cycle. I feel good, I am the strongest I have ever been and have been going to the gym 3-5 days a week since I ran my first cycle starting Sept. 1 2011. One thing that I was super excited about was the fact that I was finally able to run on the treadmill without getting shin splints! It took a good while easing into it and a lot of leg training but Last year I was doing HIIT on the treadmill for an hour 5 days a week, sometimes twice! Over the winter I slacked off on the cardio and am trying to ease into the treadmill again but shins are flaring up. I'll take it slow, but if it doesn't work I may be running a third var cycle, maybe with the 100mg test E that Bonaparte recommended.

So to sum up my second var cycle last year: It did nothing for Elbow pain and am still feeling it at heavy weights. My lower back is much stronger now but I have made much of that progress after the last cycle. I do believe that the var strengthened it enough to start training it though. Keep in mind that I have taken a very slow pace with everything. I don't think I broke 200lbs for deadlifts for months. And the var didn't seem to take the pain away from my lower back the second time around like I hoped. But since then with training, it has been greatly reduced. And the no knee or shin flare ups were amazing for cardio on the treadmill! I finally found out what a runners high felt like!

**SirIsaacBrock** · 05-11-2013, 06:58 PM

Hello, I also just joined this forum because of this thread.. To make things breif, I was diagnosed with eds when I was younger, I went through batteries of tests over the years at sick kids hospital. Luckily my level of EDS is on the mild side, though I do bruise very easily, skin is stretchy and I get random ticks in joints like them feeling off or slightly out of place. Ive dislocated both shoudlers a few times, and my neck actually once when I was a kid playing wallball. What actually prompted it as a kid was that seemingly out of nowhere for no reason my feet would swell up. and I mean swell up, like balloons, I couldnt walk at all and then the bruising would be horrific.

Anyway I never let it bother me.. I never played contact sports but Ive always mountain biked, skateboarded, and done all sorts of other stupid 'extreme' shit kids do. I raced go-karts as a kid against the doctors advice and I even raced motorcycles a few times. I actually crashed in a corner and had the bike land on my leg.. that was fun to get through (I tried to link a picture of my bruised up leg but it was denied as spam, maybe some other time)

I've always been weak.. really weak, and always felt like I coudln't gain weight. I weighed 130lbs from grade 10 all the way up until this year, seemingly never able to get over the hump. Well in january I quit all substance abuse and drinking (very rarely do I drink) and I quit smoking after 5 years of pack a day smoking. Since then Ive started eating right and training right and Im up to 160lbs. For someone of my height (5'8) and weight my lifts are pathetic, though slowly climbing: 80lb bench, 85lb front squat, 85lb power clean (I clean to front squat since I have no rack) 160lb deadlift, 80lb bb row, 50lb ohp.. When I started back in january, squatting my own body weight 5x5 had my legs hurting for over a week, and its eemed every time I squatted again I'd pull or really strain a muscle.. its taken 4 months, a few weeks off because of a dislocated shoulder, to work up to the weights I am at.

I too have heard that lifting is bad, but I figure if I do it with good form and it doesnt hurt, and if it does hurt Ill skip a day or make sure things are light. I find things tend to start feeling out of whack if I neglect my form. The weights are pathetic though, I see guys my similar hieght/weight benching 1.5x their body weight and so on. It makes me wonder if due to the collagen deficiencies that it has affected the actual muscle strength.

Either way, I push on. I am not ready to attempt a steroid cycle, as I feel I have lots of gains, but I am VERY conscious of my connective tissue, which is what led me here. I have been reading a lot about SARMS , particularily S-1 aka MK-2866 aka Ostarine - its legal as a research chemical, its easy to acquire, and it supposedly has joint/connective tissue healing abilities in that it helps speed up collagen production. I'm not entirely clear on how EDS affects collagen, whether it actually makes the structure of the collagen itself weaker, or if it limits the amount of collagen that can be produced in the various systems, but I do believe anything boosting it in any way would help things out..

I think I may run an Osta cycle at the end of the summer or during the winter to see.

I think like the rest of you, even though we realize that weight training is 'bad' we also realize that we're not entirely handicapped by the 'disease' like many with EDS are, and that we can just ignore it to an extent, we may have a little extra recovery but we push on just because we want to live our lives to their fullest..

For the record I have also started running and training for the tough mudder. I don't care, I'm going to do it. I know when my body says to slow down and I listen, but I will continue to push it - and for the record, as I have been gaining strength over the past 4 months a number of phantom aches and pains have all diminished or disapeared.. so I am definitely going to keep things up.

Cheers to all of you

**greengo** · 09-14-2013, 06:34 PM

Hi Dufresne,

Sorry to be bringing this thread back from the dead but I would really like to share notes on this as I am about to try var for the same reasons you did. I tried to pm you but realised I can't because Im a newbie on here lol.

I have symptoms that are very similar to type II EDS but still not sure that's what I got. My skin is sensitive, I bruise and a scratch or cut takes ages to heal. But my main problem is in connective tissue. My tendons and ligaments stretch out and are weak making my joints unstable and pop all the time.

What is strange about all this is that I was perfectly normal until a shoulder injury. After ACJ stabilization surgery that went wrong I started getting pain in muscle and shoulder. This spread into other joints. but when I had my revision surgery it became severe. All my joints started to pop etc. I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue but Ive seen to pain specialts who told me my joints are not common with these conditions. One said this could be EDS. Im reading now that some people get diagnosed very late with EDS. can it start happening in the late 20s? strange.

In any case its now been 2 years and I actually completely recovered at one point when the shoulder got better 3 months after revision surgery. But unfortunately when it destabilized again, my symptoms came back and have been getting progressively worse. Now I need a 3rd operation using a very effective procedure but the shoulders are both a mess so is my neck and back and surgery will be difficult.

Because this has been completely destroying my life Ive decided to go for a var cycle to try to improve through maximising collagen synthesis.

You say that test decreases collagen synthesis but from my research Ive found that is only the case if you exceed a certain dose. I believe if you keep it at a low dose of 150mg a week it shouldn't effect collagen. So im considering running 60mg of var with a low dose of test with a proper PCT to avoid shutdown as I am already fatigued with the firbo. a shutdown might make things worse.

But what I wanted to ask you was did you look into eduipose (boldenone )? i read that it increases collagen synthesis by 380%. did you consider that? I only looked into as Im having trouble finding var.

And how was your result in the long term? My doc is against this treatment as he thinks for this to work I would need to be on var regualarly. I disagree. I think running a cycle once a year could be great. perhaps I won't need to do more than one. If I get my joints to become stronger by 20-30% I would be super happy and Im sure I can get back to a reasonable level of physical activity. I used to train aggresively before all this but never ran a cycle. Now Im limited in what I can do. I focus more on legs as they are not as bad as shoulders. hopefully this cycle will help me do more workouts.

Anyway bro... thanks for posting your experience. Hope are doing well. Would be great if you could have a chat about all this.

**Bonaparte** · 09-15-2013, 01:22 AM

Is this the "randomly pop in and write your life story before never returning thread"?

**SirIsaacBrock** · 11-18-2013, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Is this the "randomly pop in and write your life story before never returning thread"?

Enh, not quite, was hoping TS would update or respond to my post, or that someone would at least.

When it comes to EDS there is pretty much **** all for information out there

**Kanos** · 02-02-2014, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by SirIsaacBrock

Enh, not quite, was hoping TS would update or respond to my post, or that someone would at least.

When it comes to EDS there is pretty much **** all for information out there

Hi everyone,

I too have joined the forum after reading this. I'm in Sydney Australia. My wife has EDS. We have 5 kids that have inherited it now. Its pretty heartbreaking as im the only non sufferer in the family. Im an ex pro rugby player and current drug free bodybuilder. It dawned on me that anabolics may be a potential treatment option, I googled and here i am! My kids have the sport bug. They are amazing athletes, rugby, rugby league, track and field and swimming. I hope in the not too distant future a cure is found as it will be devastating for my kids when they potentially have to drop out of sport because of pain.