another insulin question, diet and times

**Iron horse** · 03-31-2003, 07:57 PM

I know about the carb ratio's (though everyone's different) I was curious to hear what others take after a shot of it, ie: high carb shake high protien, zero fat. or high protien shake, etc etc...

its my first time coming up (with cycle), just want to make sure i do everything perfect. Im afraid of it making me fat!

**Iron horse** · 03-31-2003, 07:58 PM

btw - i was only going to use it post workout, what do most do/recommend?

**painintheazz** · 03-31-2003, 08:14 PM

Well I am not speaking on experiance here, but I did do a lot of research on it a while back as I was thinking of running it. The most notable stuff I came up with was, don't eat fat 2-3 hours after you take your shot. Get atleast 10g of carbs per IU (but I have also heard this debated and some bros say you can go way less.) Protein is fair game... Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Pain

**Iron horse** · 04-01-2003, 04:22 AM

thanks pit-azz

bump!

**PHATCAT** · 04-01-2003, 09:05 AM

Bro I will double check but I think they recomend not taking it post workout and if you dont get the carbs right your results will be worse than FAT! Ideal sugar levels are between 70- 120mg/dl ! If yur blood sugar falls bellow 20 you run the risk of Permenant BRAIN DAMAGE, COMA, or DEATH! One unit of Insulin loweres your blood sugar by 30-50 points(dependin on your Height / Weight /Gender . Also you would be in the danger zone if you go above 140 (to many carbs)because the way the body works if you go above that number your kidneys start to over spill the extra stored sugar (Glucose) in to the blood and if you go over 180 its OVER FOR YOU..... InSULIN is a science and there is lot more to consider here your body type and matabilism will greatly affect your sugar levels. Oh and never take it before you go to sleep. Insulin is described as the most Anaboilic Hormone in the BODY with the ability to Increase Growth Hormone Levels wich Increase muscle growth BUT, it is very dangerous benifits for Inexperienced users do not out weigh the DOWNSIDE!!!!! I happen to be studying up on this as you asked this Question This past weekened I spoke with a registered Dietitian with a master degree in Nutrition who is also a certified Diabetes Educator/ not to mention a Amature Female Bodybuilder! So point being read up thorrowlly and BECAREFUL hate to see a fellow member get HURT!!! LATA PHATCAT P.S. Insulin control can be used with out injecting Insulin Timing your meals Loading with dextrose wtih your protein and before you work out exspesially postwork out to shuttle Nutriants back into your muscle for recovery and growth this works but its obviously not going to be as big of an increase in insulin compared to Injecting some in but it does work quit well.

**Boxer101** · 04-01-2003, 09:20 AM

I argee with PhatCat, as far as your question goes the ideal sollution is to consume only enough carbs to offset the insulin and the drop in blood sugar. Excess carbs of course can be stored as fat for future energy stores. Insulin is a science and requires some discipline but also a little experimentation. Start with the 10g/iu using a mixture of carbs.

**The Butcher** · 04-01-2003, 01:29 PM

To stay lean while taking slin, don't eat fat for 2 hours before you take your shot, and don't eat it for 2 hours after your shot. Here's my regimen:

4:30 PM: Meal (probably my highest fat meal of the day, but it is pre-workout, and at least 3 hours before my slin shot)
6:00 PM: Workout.
7:30 PM: Slin shot. (I use 16 iu of Humilin R, but I worked up to this from 8 iu)
7:45 PM: Homemade "Cell-Tech" shake consisting of 150 grams of dextrose, 20 grams of glutamine, and 15 grams of creatine flavored with Kool-Aid mix.
8:00 PM: Protein shake with 70 grams of protein, and 23 grams of carbs.
8:30 PM: Bag of Minute Rice white rice with one bannana chopped up in it. I put a little milk in it, either sugar, or Extra sweetner.
9:30-10:00 PM: Large meal with 12oz of meat (beef, or pork) six half ears of corn, and a cup of oatmeal with 1/2 cup of milk.

I'm usually in bed by 11:30 or 12:00, and if I get hungry by that time, I have another protein shake.

This works well for me, and it allows me to avoid hypoglycemia. I fully agree with the 10grams of carbs per iu philosophy, but it's not quite that simple. If you take your carb shake (at the 10grams/iu ratio) 15 minutes after your slin shot and don't eat carbs again, you will get Hypo within about an hour and a half. The second helping of carbs (the white rice and bannana) helps to prevent this. You are trying to force the carbs into your muscles, so why not give your body as many carbs as possible to use.

As a little side note, I do weigh 300lbs, so if your body weight is considerably less, you may need to drop some of the doses I have written above. 10iu may suit you just fine. It will allow you to not have to eat as many carbs (or food in general). The downside to slin is that it usually makes you feel kinda nasty for awhile after you take it. Maybe it's all the carbs you have to eat, or maybe it's the slin itself, but it usually makes you feel kinda yuck. And it sucks to force feed yourself when you feel yuck. That's why drinking the shakes, and then eating the rice with the sweetner and bannanas works pretty good. It goes down easier than other foods. And when you take slin, the last thing you want to do is not eat. Good luck.

**painintheazz** · 04-01-2003, 01:37 PM

Nice info butcher.

Pain

**Iron horse** · 04-01-2003, 06:02 PM

thanks for the replys. And yes ive done research and know the dangers, HOWEVER, just goes to show i learned something, i did not know you could eat to many carbs to a dangerous extent.

well, if its alright to take it after your workout (someone clarify this plz)

anyone who replys to this, thanks!!

i would do something like this,

6:00pm finish workout
6:10 - insulin , humalog
within the next ten minutes 10gcarbs/per ui of slin (simple carbs)
( what do most comsume for carbs? simple and complex )
6:40ish - carb/protien drink
7:30ish - balanced meal carbs/fat/protien (anyone knows #'s and ratio)

after that will eat more carbs if needed depending how i feel. Im a big eater, but at what number is too many carbs?

since it has a 4 hour halflife, i'll go to bed at the 4 hour mark, since i get up very early.

**Boxer101** · 04-01-2003, 06:44 PM

The amount of carbs needed to be consumed to increase your blood sugar to a dangerous level would be toxic well before the you experienced any sides of hypo. I dont see who's post wrote that but I completely disagree. I agree that carbs should be limited to the a safe margin over that which would be required to offset the slin but to say that taking in too many carbs is dangerous is just plain wrong. As far as taking your slin before or after your workout.... DEFINITELY after. Your body is in a state where it can make the most of your diet after working out. Imagine your body is a sponge and sqeezing the sponge is equivalent to working out. When you supply your body with nutrients it soaks up a great deal more then it would otherwise assimilate if you weren't in a depleted state. Taking insulin is very similar to this in principle only x's 10. Taking slin pre-workout is in my opinion useless or at very least not near as effective as post workout. Sure the pumps are much more intense but that in itself actually hinders workouts to an extent. If this is your first time out I would go with 5-6iu's post-workout and structure your diet accordingly. Your plan to take your injection at 6pm and wait 4hrs before sleeping is good but you may want to wait till the weekend to try it out when you can stay up later. Reason being, depending on you insulin sensitivity humulin R can in fact stay active as long as 8-12hrs later. Most people (non-diabetic) do however peak out at 2hrs and are safe around the 4hr mark.

**Rickson** · 04-01-2003, 06:58 PM

Take your slin Post workout. Have a High carb/ protein drink within 15 minutes after shot. I usually do 96g carbs/40g protein. About an hour later I do a solid food meal with a double carb to protein ratio again (Usually Skinless Bonless chicken breast and yams for me). As previously advised stay away from fat for at least an hour prior to workout and at least four hours after Insulin shot. Usually I don't feel hypo after my last meal (chicken/yam) so I usually just have a whey protein drink before bed but everyone is different and the key is to be aware of how you feel and make sure you have high glycemic carbs on hand (I like the gum available). Make sure you don't go to bed for at least four hours after shot.

**Iron horse** · 04-01-2003, 07:11 PM

thanks, just curious rickson, is that a homemade shake or store bought?

boxer - i was planning on humalong which has a four halflife, but your right, I will do it on the weekend. probably this saturday.

**The Butcher** · 04-01-2003, 09:14 PM

Cell-Tech is a good slin "carb" shake, but you can make it yourself for cheaper. Get two 2 pound bags of Dextrose (www.thepowerstore.com), two cups of glutamine, 1 to 2 cups of creatine, and two packets of Kool-Aide mix in the flavor you desire. Mix it all together real good, and you have your own batch of Cell-tech for alot less money. This should cost you less than $30 total.

Yes, take your slin shot post workout. I liked Boxer's sponge analogy. It's quite fitting.

I forgot to mention that I also take citrimax at the same time I take my slin shot. Since you are using Humalog, you will need to take the citrimax (if you choose to use it) 30 minutes prior to your shot.

Boxer, where did you get the "too many carbs can increase your blood sugar to a toxic level" from? I couldn't find it in this post either.

**Boxer101** · 04-01-2003, 10:36 PM

I'll see if I can dig it up. There was a study posted on Anabolic Fitness about it nearly a year ago. The point that was being made is that you would have to eat yourself to death before even making a noticable dent in your blood sugar.

**Lift Chief** · 04-01-2003, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Rickson
Take your slin Post workout. Have a High carb/ <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a> drink within 15 minutes after shot. I usually do 96g carbs/40g <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a>. About an hour later I do a solid food meal with a double carb to <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a> ratio again (Usually Skinless Bonless chicken breast and yams for me). As previously advised stay away from fat for at least an hour prior to workout and at least four hours after Insulin shot. Usually I don't feel hypo after my last meal (chicken/yam) so I usually just have a whey <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a></a> drink before bed but everyone is different and the key is to be aware of how you feel and make sure you have high glycemic carbs on hand (I like the gum available). Make sure you don't go to bed for at least four hours after shot.

That's the way to do it right there... this man knows his slin.

Humalog is totally out of the system in 3.5-4 hours BUT the levels greatly drop after hour 2... so after you solid food meal at hour 1 you should be good, like rickson said. Just have a coke on hand just in case.

**Iron horse** · 04-02-2003, 04:25 AM

alright, thanks.

about injection, how close is to close to the belly button?

**Boxer101** · 04-02-2003, 11:35 AM

Anywhere subq is acceptable. Makes no difference. Upper abs, lower abs, legs, anywhere. Subq is subq doesn't matter where. You can even take it IM although I am not recommending it, IV is also a possibility although again I am not suggesting it. I would shoot subq anywhere in the abdomen. You choose....

**painintheazz** · 04-02-2003, 11:37 AM

I have heard that IM makes it too hard to time the slin spike.

Pain

**Lift Chief** · 04-02-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Iron horse
alright, thanks.

about injection, how close is to close to the belly button?

It needs to be at least an inch or 2 AWAY from the belly button... also the inside of the thighs are fine to shoot. Just try not to shoot in the same place twice- vary it slightly.

**PHATCAT** · 04-02-2003, 02:08 PM

Insulin injected near the stomach works the fastest. Insulin injected into the Thighs works slowest. Insulin injected into the Arms works at a medium rate (speed). Also if you inject Insulin into an an exercising Muscle this speeds up the the rate of Absorption and changes its action and Peak times........... this is useful for your carb consumption high gylcemic or low glycemic food Index!

**PHATCAT** · 04-02-2003, 02:29 PM

I just wanna make a note here I did double check and its recomended that taking Insulin after a workout is a dangerous practice and not the current trend, BUT I am only going by what I am reading in books and articles. They claim that The benifits from insulin as far as Anabolic effects right after working out are NILE and it is also relevent that Muscle repair and growth begin in the many Hours and Days following Heavy Exercise. Just passing on info and keeping an open mind to all info gathered, but if experienced users here (which Im not) are saying it works well it may be worth it! the articles Ive read and the people Ive talked to say in the Morning ( Depending on which Insulin your using because of the Peaking time and duration lengths).
I have a list of the types / brands names / onset times / peak times/ duration times if your intrested.

**Rickson** · 04-02-2003, 04:52 PM

Well most people take it both times but if you are going to choose one post workout is the optimal time when glycogen stores are depleted and shuttling nutrients will be maximized. Especially if you are trying to stay lean.

**Iron horse** · 04-02-2003, 05:06 PM

thanks again,

whats consider a different injection site on the stomach? 1-2 inches?

**PHATCAT** · 04-02-2003, 07:28 PM

yes these articles did say for mass building MORNING shots. So that must be the difference. I do think if you approach this logically it makes more sence after your workout to shuttle the Nutrients when your body is in a state off Depletion, that is why they say to consume your Whey Protein Immediately after traing! well Just keep track of your carb intake and your sugar levels those are the 2 Important things. READ the way your body is responding to Insulin and make your changes accorrdingly. Good luck Im courious to hear about your results seeing I have been considering this myself. I will contact you to see how its going and maybe youll learn something you can pass along to a first timer for SLIN!!! LATA

**Iron horse** · 04-03-2003, 04:25 AM

thanks!

one more question!

if im shooting in the stomach, and you cant shoot the same area very often. what is the place i must leave for the closest injection site, from the last (hope that wasnt confusing) 1-2-3 inches?

**Iron horse** · 04-03-2003, 05:10 PM

bump

**Boxer101** · 04-03-2003, 06:17 PM

Bro you are really analyzing this way to much. As long as you inject the same place, meaning the same general area you wont have a problem. Consistency is the key to safety where slin is concerned. Anywhere in the abdomen is fine.

**gixxerboy1** · 04-03-2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by PHATCAT
Also you would be in the danger zone if you go above 140 (to many carbs)because the way the body works if you go above that number your kidneys start to over spill the extra stored sugar (Glucose) in to the blood and if you go over 180 its OVER FOR YOU.....

Bro i dont know who told you that but its wrong. After meals blood sugar is normal to go tha thigh if not a little higher. I've been a daibetic for over 16 years. I just dont want someone to test their blood after the eat and get the shit scared out of them becasue of what they read.
And you correct you dont want to go hyperglycemic (sp) But they arent go to die from 180. I've had control problems in the past and been above 400 for days and am fine

**PHATCAT** · 04-04-2003, 05:50 PM

Ideal sugar levels are between 70- 120mg/dl ! If yur blood sugar falls bellow 20 you run the risk of Permenant BRAIN DAMAGE, COMA, or DEATH! what I was trying to get across is be prepared and watch your levels and they can elevate Quickly and drop even quicker when Injecting INSULIN so if he was not aware of this He could get him self into trouble if he didnt know what he was to expect. I think you would agree it would not be wise to go to high for to long. My knowledge is only reading based and Diabeties runs in my family. Just what to make it clear Im only sharing opions and lititure. Thats what HE was looking for. This was a good topic I dont think too many understand the effects of insulin and carbs on the body for building!

**gixxerboy1** · 04-04-2003, 08:00 PM

Phatcat your right better to be safe with insulin and your correct on the the dangers of going hypo. But i just didnt want someone to panic because after a meal their suger was 180 and you wrote if it goes over 180 itsover for you. Thats all