Does anyone use proviron with every cycle?

[tobetutz]

Does anyone use proviron with every cycle? I have been inclined to use it more and more with every cycle. It feels like everytime I cycle with it I make better progress than with out it... Also when stacked with Mast they work great together. IMO

Just checking in to see who else if anyone was doing this also.

[dec11]

dont mast and proviron have the same effect with mast being the more potent?

surely one or the other would be enough and no need for both?

[tobetutz]

They do almost the same thing BUT when taken together they are even more awsome. How I use them is mast 100mg eod, proviron 50mgs every 12 hours along with test and tren .

[wmaousley]

100mg of Proviron ed is way too much IMO, 25mg every 12 hrs is plenty especially if your gonna add Masteron . IMO its only really beneficial to start Mast/Proviron at about week 4 or 5 and end your cycle with it.

[tobetutz]

I get 50mgs caps. Never had 25mg caps. Can't say the sides were bad. Nothing but good reviews for running proviron with my cycles. Just wanna see if anyone else has shared my expieriences.

[Swifto]

If you're looking at Proviron for some sort of estrogen control, I think its a poor option. Use an AI.

AI's also reduce SHBG and SHBG is not an issue when on exogenous testosterone (cycle lengths). It actually goes down, not up, in a dose dependant manner.

DHT derived steroids will help control aromotase, so I tend to use a smaller dose of Aromasin when "on", depending on the total dose of steroids that aromtase.

[tobetutz]

Never had an issue with estrogen control and I typically run 1g of test a week. I tried proviron to free up test by having it bind to my SHBG and have had some amazing results. I have a buddy who suggested I use adex and see how I liked it you are the second person who shares his opinion. I might check it out next go around. Thanks Swifto.

[Juice Authority]

The drug profiles suggest Proviron enhances the anabolic action of testosterone , lowers SHBG, helps with estro control, increases libido and all sorts of other wonderful things. I went with that theory for a long while, but in practice, one thing that certainly enhances the anabolic action of test is more test.

[Swifto]

The drug profiles suggest Proviron enhances the anabolic action of testosterone, lowers SHBG, helps with estro control, increases libido and all sorts of other wonderful things. I went with that theory for a long while, but in practice, one thing that certainly enhances the anabolic action of test is more test.

I guess you could assume the anabolic action is magnified because Proviron and DHT's do lower SHBG. But the questions remains, will you notice? In my opinion, no.

[dec11]

Never had an issue with estrogen control and I typically run 1g of test a week. I tried proviron to free up test by having it bind to my SHBG and have had some amazing results. I have a buddy who suggested I use adex and see how I liked it you are the second person who shares his opinion. I might check it out next go around. Thanks Swifto.

i wouldnt bother with the adex if you dont suffer gyno symptoms mate, ive a friend like you, he can run 1g+ and not get any sides. lucky bastids!!

[Swifto]

i wouldnt bother with the adex if you dont suffer gyno symptoms mate, ive a friend like you, he can run 1g+ and not get any sides. lucky bastids!!

Estrogen is a carcinogen and should be controlled in males, symptoms or not IMHO.

Massive estrogen levels have no positive effects what so ever.

[MR10X]

Estrogen is a carcinogen and should be controlled in males, symptoms or not IMHO.

Massive estrogen levels have no positive effects what so ever.

I agree,estrogen has no positive effect and should be keep it in the low range.5mg of adex EOD would keep things good.I have had high estrogen and only had bad side effects,i have had very low estrogen Used high doses of letro to get rid of gyno and had some serious issues with that and cialis or viagra wouldnt fix it. I would recomend using a mild AI to keep it in a normal range.

[Juice Authority]

I guess you could assume the anabolic action is magnified because Proviron and DHT's do lower SHBG. But the questions remains, will you notice? In my opinion, no.

I really didn't notice shit when compared to running a slightly higher dose of test with aroma. I switched to Mast E and ran that for a while. Same thing. Proviron and Mast E are in my "not needed for the cost" category. There's a reason proviron has never been approved for any therapeutic indication in US. It bombed like Pearl Harbor in clinical studies for a variety of different indications, but has the CE mark in europe as a fertility drug. Test + Var + Aroma is a simple and highly effective cycle for us old folks looking for moderate gains. I'll leave the dbol and abombs for the younger guys. I did recently have a good run with tbol aside from minor back pumps, but nothing compared to dbol.

[dec11]

Estrogen is a carcinogen and should be controlled in males, symptoms or not IMHO.

Massive estrogen levels have no positive effects what so ever.

so although some dont get symptoms are you saying they still will have the massively elevated estro levels that would show symptoms on me?

[Swifto]

so although some dont get symptoms are you saying they still will have the massively elevated estro levels that would show symptoms on me?

It doesnt matter who you are, if you're injecting large doses of synthetic testosterone without an aromotase inhibitor, its going to increase testosterone . It has to aromotase and raise E.

The difference in side effects is how well a certain individual can tolerate the increased level. Some can, some cant (acne, gyno, water retention, BP). But the E level is still high. Which is why I say, control it, sides/no sides.

AI's cost hardly anything and as long as E is kept in normal ranges, or just below. Sides of low E wont become apparent.

[MR10X]

It doesnt matter who you are, if you're injecting large doses of synthetic testosterone without an aromotase inhibitor, its going to increase testosterone . It has to aromotase and raise E.

The difference in side effects is how well a certain individual can tolerate the increased level. Some can, some cant (acne, gyno, water retention, BP). But the E level is still high. Which is why I say, control it, sides/no sides.

AI's cost hardly anything and as long as E is kept in normal ranges, or just below. Sides of low E wont become apparent.

Also the less the estro conversion the more available test there is which is a plus...

[dec11]

It doesnt matter who you are, if you're injecting large doses of synthetic testosterone without an aromotase inhibitor, its going to increase testosterone . It has to aromotase and raise E.

The difference in side effects is how well a certain individual can tolerate the increased level. Some can, some cant (acne, gyno, water retention, BP). But the E level is still high. Which is why I say, control it, sides/no sides.

AI's cost hardly anything and as long as E is kept in normal ranges, or just below. Sides of low E wont become apparent.

never knew that, i thought it just didnt aromatise as much in some people, good to know. AI's are quite hard to find here on the local scene and are v costly, but then it is pharma grade

would be right to say that everyone should start an AI on commencing a cycle, rather than wait on gyno signs?

[chuckt12345]

not sure 10 to 12 wks of higher e levels will cause anymore probs than sticking another hormone altering substances in your body to control it.

[Juice Authority]

never knew that, i thought it just didnt aromatise as much in some people, good to know. AI's are quite hard to find here on the local scene and are v costly, but then it is pharma grade

would be right to say that everyone should start an AI on commencing a cycle, rather than wait on gyno signs?

Pharma grade AI's can run a pretty penny. They're certainly not cheap.

[Swifto]

never knew that, i thought it just didnt aromatise as much in some people, good to know. AI's are quite hard to find here on the local scene and are v costly, but then it is pharma grade

would be right to say that everyone should start an AI on commencing a cycle, rather than wait on gyno signs?

I always suggest using an AI.

Why wait and get sides effects when you can prevent them. Poor logic IMHO.

Pharma grade AI's can run a pretty penny. They're certainly not cheap.

Yeah, they can. Anasrozole from Astra Zeneca and Pfizer Aromasin are very expensive.

[dec11]

I always suggest using an AI.

Why wait and get sides effects when you can prevent them. Poor logic IMHO.



Yeah, they can. Anasrozole from Astra Zeneca and Pfizer Aromasin are very expensive.

yeah but my previous logic was dont take em if you dont need them, i didnt realise that just because one doesnt show symptoms doesnt mean that estro isnt sky high. i'll be recommending them from the get go from now on.

my adex is made/distributed by Teva btw and was shockingly expensive!!

[Juice Authority]

I always suggest using an AI.

Why wait and get sides effects when you can prevent them. Poor logic IMHO.

Yeah, they can. Anasrozole from Astra Zeneca and Pfizer Aromasin are very expensive.

Another thing to note. A-dex can inhibit IGF-1 levels or so I've been told. Aromasin , while more expensive doesn't. The US pharmacy cost for Pfizer Aromasin is outrageous without insurance. Unfortunately there is no generic alternative for Aromasin since it's still protected under Pfizer's patent. Online companies selling "pharma grade" Aromasin are infringing on Pfizer's patent. Then again, China and India could care less about patent infringement.

[Swifto]

Another thing to note. A-dex can inhibit IGF-1 levels or so I've been told. Aromasin, while more expensive doesn't. The US pharmacy cost for Pfizer Aromasin is outrageous without insurance. Unfortunately there is no generic alternative for Aromasin since it's still protected under Pfizer's patent. Online companies selling "pharma grade" Aromasin are infringing on Pfizer's patent. Then again, China and India could care less about patent infringement.

Arimidex and Letro have been shown to inhibit IGF by around 10-12%, so its not going to make much of a difference. Exogenous testosterone also raises IGF, so again, its not going to make much of a difference.

As for Aromasin /Exemestane, anything that inhibits estorgen is going to decrease IGF becuase of the way GH and IGF are synthesised. I'm almost certain there is data showing Aromasin lowers serum IGF. I will have a look.

Yup, China and India dont give a shit, patent or not.

[Swifto]

Another thing to note. A-dex can inhibit IGF-1 levels or so I've been told. Aromasin, while more expensive doesn't. The US pharmacy cost for Pfizer Aromasin is outrageous without insurance. Unfortunately there is no generic alternative for Aromasin since it's still protected under Pfizer's patent. Online companies selling "pharma grade" Aromasin are infringing on Pfizer's patent. Then again, China and India could care less about patent infringement.

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Nelly Mauras, John Lima, Deval Patel, Annie Rini, Enrico di Salle, Ambrose Kwok and Barbara Lippe

Nemours Children’s Clinic and Research Programs (N.M., J.L., A.R.), Jacksonville, Florida 32207; and University of Florida Health Sciences Center (D.P.) and Amersham Pharmacia Biotech (E.d.S., A.K., B.L.), Peapack, New Jersey 07977


Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin ) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14–26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.



May be not...

[Swifto]

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Nelly Mauras, John Lima, Deval Patel, Annie Rini, Enrico di Salle, Ambrose Kwok and Barbara Lippe

Nemours Children’s Clinic and Research Programs (N.M., J.L., A.R.), Jacksonville, Florida 32207; and University of Florida Health Sciences Center (D.P.) and Amersham Pharmacia Biotech (E.d.S., A.K., B.L.), Peapack, New Jersey 07977


Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin ) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects (14–26 yr of age) were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose. Exemestane suppressed plasma estradiol comparably with either dose [25 mg, 38% (P 0.002); 50 mg, 32% (P 0.008)], with a reciprocal increase in testosterone concentrations (60% and 56%; P 0.003 for both). Plasma lipids and IGF-I concentrations were unaffected by treatment. The PK properties of the 25-mg dose showed the highest exemestane concentrations 1 h after administration, indicating rapid absorption. The terminal half-life was 8.9 h. Maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14% was observed at 12 h. The drug was well tolerated. In conclusion, exemestane is a potent aromatase inhibitor in men and an alternative to the choice of available inhibitors. Long-term efficacy and safety will need further study.



May be not...

Full paper, here.

[Juice Authority]

^^^That's why Aromasin is the crown jewel for me especially when running GH.

[Swifto]

^^^That's why Aromasin is the crown jewel for me especially when running GH.

I've been saying it for years for various reasons.

Arimidex is outdated against it and Letro should only be used in certain circumstances.