Thoughts on Nolva during Test Tren Cycle...

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 06:05 PM

Hey guys... I have done a lot of research on the subject and have found numerous threads suggesting that tamox(nolva) is good to use during a tren cycle to combat estrogen sides. Mostly people are saying that it is a myth about gyno and the article is listed below from some fellow members on this board. I only have access to Nolvadex as I am in a new city and am not able to get any Ai's so this is why I am asking for your opnions. I am on my 2nd week and have no symptoms of gyno or hard or itchy nipples and I take 20 mg nolva every day.

Thoughts?

Here is the blog/article I am referring to- Please read!
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...a#.TzDNGK5olD0

**DanB** · 02-08-2012, 06:13 PM

i only skimmed through that but my understanding is that it talks about preventing gyno from test based aas (17a etc) not preventing prolactin (19nor's)

its prolactin that will cause problems on tren and something such as caber is needed to control this, but an a.i. is still advisable to regulate estrogen aswell

this should get you started on caber
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...d#.TzMPOoFfaSo

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 06:14 PM

these two articles are conflicting? Am i safe to use Nolva alone?

**DanB** · 02-08-2012, 06:16 PM

no they arent conflicting you are taking it out of context

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 06:18 PM

so do you think I am at risk using just nolva alone? Thats my main concern...

**DanB** · 02-08-2012, 06:23 PM

Yes I would use armidex or aromasin (estrogen) and caber or prami (prolactin)

If sourcing these is a problem then they are available from the sponser

Nolva and tren dont mix during cycle, it can cause an increase in progestin/prolactin sides

**Razor** · 02-08-2012, 06:25 PM

Dont run nova during cycle!!

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 06:45 PM

But isnt the first port of call should be to attack estrogen and see if that reduces the complaint of Prg? Thats what it says in the other medical article... and since im not having any signs or symptoms Id think that the nolva would be working?

**DanB** · 02-08-2012, 06:57 PM

is it tren e or tren a?

the problems may not have come on yet, you may be lucky, you may experience problems later on

it isnt dealing with the levels of estrogen its blocking the them at the receptor hence reason for an a.i to prevent them from aromatising in first place, similar suitation with caber

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 07:06 PM

it's tren E.. Im running it with Test 400...

**Sgt. Hartman** · 02-08-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by bobio_69

But isnt the first port of call should be to attack estrogen and see if that reduces the complaint of Prg? Thats what it says in the other medical article... and since im not having any signs or symptoms Id think that the nolva would be working?

You're right that the primary way to avoid excess PrL and related sides is by keeping estrogen under control. But, the best way to keep estrogen under control is with an AI. Tamox will block estrogen from binding at its receptor sites but will do nothing for reducing plasma estrogen levels. Not to mention tamox is slightly liver toxic and exemestane and anastrozole aren't. It makes much more sense to prevent excess estrogen from forming in the first place than try to control it's effects after it's already extremely elevated.

**DanB** · 02-08-2012, 07:16 PM

again liquidex and prami from sponser

the facts wont change, nolvadex has been shown to upregulate the progesterone receptor and in turn this can cause progestin gyno

**Sgt. Hartman** · 02-08-2012, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by DanB

again liquidex and prami from sponser

the facts wont change, nolvadex has been shown to upregulate the progesterone receptor and in turn this can cause progestin gyno

No disrespect intended but there are a ton of recent studies that show that this outdated theory is simply not true.

**DanB** · 02-08-2012, 07:21 PM

none taken, but really? everything I have ever read states what I claimed, it may be outdated (and I'm searching now) but I'm yet to come across a study to show this

hmmmm just read the thread at top mabey I shouldnt of been so quick to dismiss it orginally, to the OP I apologise

so does this then mean that it is now understood that nolvadex CAN be used to combat progeterone by blocking the estrogen to begin with?

and this will have no effect on progesterone receptor at all?

but if prolactin sides have already become apparent then caber etc can then be used to regulate prolactin?

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 07:21 PM

Thanks for info DanB and I agree Sgt. Hartman that is why I started this thread... it seems that every blog has its own opinions on this topic.

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-08-2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by DanB

none taken, but really? everything I have ever read states what I claimed, it may be outdated (and I'm searching now) but I'm yet to come across a study to show this

Progesterone enhances the effects of estrogen...but if the estrogen receptor is blocked (ie nolva) that becomes irrelevent. See the first post in this thread. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...yths-by-Nandi& Go down to "Progesterone and prolactin induced gynomastia"
rip Nandi....

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-08-2012, 07:40 PM

OP - While my last post may be true it doesnt mean nolva on cycle is best or most prudent. I did it for years...and with 19 nors BUT its prudent to keep estrogen levels within normal range for several reasons. That means as Sgt said , an ai is a more prudent choice. Now if you get gyno symptoms while on an ai id start nolva immediately and increase ai dosage as well.

**bobio_69** · 02-08-2012, 07:43 PM

Thanks for info jimmyinkedup! I was just curious because money is tight right now and all I had on hand was nolva... it seemed to work well for the few guys who I know that took tren . So i decided to research this and found a lot of conflicting suggestions. I think for now I will stick with the nolva... but will be ordering some ai in the near future.

**jimmyinkedup** · 02-08-2012, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by bobio_69

Thanks for info jimmyinkedup! I was just curious because money is tight right now and all I had on hand was nolva... it seemed to work well for the few guys who I know that took tren. So i decided to research this and found a lot of conflicting suggestions. I think for now I will stick with the nolva... but will be ordering some ai in the near future.

You are welcome...

Just for the record i do not think this is the most prudent approach. Id get and use an ai (exemestane) with nolva on hand just in case.
JMO

**Sgt. Hartman** · 02-08-2012, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by DanB

none taken, but really? everything I have ever read states what I claimed, it may be outdated (and I'm searching now) but I'm yet to come across a study to show this I think the whole tamox upregulates the PgR receptor theory came from studies done on females with breast cancer who were taking massive doses of tamox. Then, Anthony Roberts caused the whole misconception to spread like wildfire on the internet and the idea is still parroted all over the place.

hmmmm just read the thread at top mabey I shouldnt of been so quick to dismiss it orginally, to the OP I apologise

so does this then mean that it is now understood that nolvadex CAN be used to combat progeterone by blocking the estrogen to begin with? Yes, but not just nolva, the idea is to control estrogen (preferably with an AI) as it regulates prolactin. I think it's called the long feedback mechanism. I don't fully understand it but Swifto has made several posts about it.

and this will have no effect on progesterone receptor at all?

but if prolactin sides have already become apparent then caber etc can then be used to regulate prolactin? Best course of action is to control E with AI (and tamox if gyno starts) but have a dopamine agonist on hand just in case.

^^^^