All Year Long Cycle, (Vets, Mods, and Anyone with Knowledge & experiance)

[ECKO 747]

Originally posted by PHATCAT
ECKO 747 Now were gettin what we asked for! Pretty Intence!!!!!!!!!

I know bro ....This is awesome. Thanks for the great contribution fellas

[JohnnyB]

It's hard to remember everything in a long post so I'm sure I said something that didn't add up. After those 12 weeks you'll be doing more gear, right?

I'll check into the slin thing and see how long it can shut down hgh secretion. I don't think I finished with the melitonin thing. It makes you more insulin sensitive so your own insulin goes down, so you can release hgh. I won't be able to do it today, because I'll be out for the day.

Glad you do have liver checked. Bro at 6'-6" you could get in the 335-350 range, if you wanted to.

If you would mind I'd like to see the rest of your cycle. I'll put mine up later. I'm doing the opposite of you, I'm getting rid of the fat first then going to bulk. No reason just thought it might work better, I won't know until next year

JohnnyB
P.S. pork chop is better then a hamburger and fries any day.

[The Butcher]

JB,
Yeah pork chops are pretty good, but the smell of those Freaking French Fries is pretty powerful sometimes!

I like the idea of leaning out and then bulking. I actually did that in the year long cycle I did last year. I started with Winny/EQ/Sus, and then after about 8 weeks I switched it up to Dbol /Enan/Deca . I really liked it as well b/c it was early Summer and I was vascular even while I was on Dbol. I'm sure the growth had something to do with me being able to stay lean while taking the dbol b/c I ate everything in sight. Most notably was about 3 nights a week I had a huge brownie and icecream from this one place that tastes so freakin' good. I think you will like the results of the cut then bulk cycle. Since my cycles kind of run together, it's sorta hard to say if I am cutting before bulking now.

Yeah, when you get the time I'd like to see the info on the melatonin and it's effect on gh secretion. Maybe I'll be able to tweak my intake even more after that.

And yes, 330+ is the end goal. I say that now, but I'm sure once I get there 350 will be what I want. It's pretty funny to think that 4 or 5 years ago I thought 275 would be more than plenty. Funny how your perception skews once you achieve one goal. Hell, I thought for sure 300 would be enough, but now I feel like I HAVE to get to 330!

I think I posted the second half of my cycle below, but I'll paste it here for ease of finding it:

Second 12 Weeks Will be as follows
Sustanon 250- 250mg on a 2 day on 1 day off split(1000-1250mg/week)
Week 14-26
Eq- 600mg/week Week 14-26
Winny- 100mg/eod or I may do 50mg/day on a 10 on 10 off split (this has worked pretty good for me in the past if you are wondering why I would run it this way) Week 15-22

I will continue the growth, and probably the slin during this time as well. I may throw in some Fina near the end of this as well if I get bored or want to try and harden up a little more. But, if my diet stays clean as I know it will , the winny and eq should do just fine for keeping me hard and more vascular than I already am. Summer is almost here Kids!!!!

The second half is real simple. Not too exotic. Again, my goal is a gradual shift in body composition. If I lose 10lbs of fat, and gain 10lbs or so of muscle (probably doable, or maybe close to it. The muscle part that is. The fat is obviously easier to take off than the muscle is to put on), then I will have dropped from my approximate 12%bf down to sub 10%. I've never been lower than 7% (but I was at least 60lbs lighter!), sub 10% sounds pretty good to me. I'm not a naturally lean guy. It takes pretty strict attention to diet for me to drop sub 10%.

Put your cycle up, I'm curious to see what you have planned. Later.

[skii96]

About the HCG this is the only way i've ever ran it and i really respond well to it. My balls swell up and my sex drive goes through the roof! If using 5000iu's all at once works for you then stick with it by all means. But I had heard something about using too high of doses at one time is not good for you and can actually hinder your recovery, not really sure why though......

[PHATCAT]

Butcher/ JOHN B/ SKI ....... glad you guys are keepin this thread alive it really informative to listen in to some guys that are a couple steps Ahead in the game, (form where I stand) , 70-80 lbs Ahead!!!! LOL REALLY glad this thread was taken serious this time!!!!!!! TONS of insite!

[JohnnyB]

Hey Butcher, I haven't forgot about the pm slin shots, but I've been gone most of the weekend. So I'll start looking for it tomarrow. But some of the stuff I've been going through suggest am and post w/o, slin/hgh injections.

JohnnyB

[The Butcher]

JB, that's cool. Whenever you get time. I still want to take a look at your cycle too.

Skii, I think I have heard something along those lines as well, but it doesn't seem to me that 5000iu at once was a problem. Perhaps it's the way I am reading it, but William Llewellyn really doesn't tell us in his article whether the hcg needs to be taken all at once, or spread out over the course of the week. I copied the part from his article that tells us we need the hcg, and it even talks about taking it at too high of a dose being possible damaging to the LH receptor. But, my conclusion (both b/c I have tried it both ways, and b/c it makes more sense to me to take it all at once if you are supposed to take it every 6 days) is that it should all be taken at one time(ie, all 5000iu at one time, then wait 6 days, and hit the other 5000iu, then wait 6 days and hit the 2500iu).:

Look at the second BOLDED quote below to see the part of the article that I copied b/c it applies to both what I have said above, and below.

I also think it is interesting to note that he is not a fan of taking hcg while you are on cycle. Many bros on this board suggest taking it every 4 weeks or so while on cycle to keep your nuts from atrophying(sp?) and that makes some sense b/c earlier in his article Llewellyn suggested the possibility that if your nuts shrink and stay shrunk for a long period of time they could possibly lose the capacity to produce enough natural test later on. Ok, I just wrote that line and then went back to reread what he had wrote, and I think I misinterpreted what he had said originally. At first I thought he was suggesting that your nuts could possibly lose the capacity to produce test EVER again (which I suppose is true to some extent), but I think what he was stating was the obvious that once your nuts have atrophied (ie, when you are on cycle) they lose the capacity at that moment to produce test. Here is the line he actually wrote, does it read the way I have interpreted it to the rest of you?:

This lack of correlation makes clear that the problem in getting androgen levels restored is not the level of LH, but in fact testicular atrophy and desensitization to this hormone. After a period of inactivation the testes have apparently lost mass (atrophied), making them unable to perform the workload required by heightened levels of LH.

Anyway, what I was going to say before I went of on that little tangent was that, like Llewellyn, it has never made sense to me to take hcg while on cycle. Here is what Llewellyn has to say about hcg when "on" cycle:


An ideal post-cycle recovery program will focus on two things really. The first is hitting the testes hard with HCG. It is important, however, not to overuse this drug. Taken for too long, or at too high a dosage, the LH receptor will actually become desensitized to LH(2) , which may further exacerbate our post-cycle problem instead of helping it (this is why I am not in favor of regular HCG use on-cycle). My experience with HCG has led me to feel comfortable using it for a course of three weeks, at a dosage of maybe 5000-7500IU weekly. Often the last week I limit the dose to 2,500IU, unless the cycle has been particularly long or potent.

My thinking is that I would rather save the big "bang" effect from administering the hcg at the end of the cycle instead of using it some while on cycle (and possibly desensitizing yourself to it?). Like wise, why stimulate the LH if you will just get shut right back down b/c your body will read the excess test in your system from the cycle you are on? Anyone have thoughts on that?


If someone has their Anabolics 2000 book handy, would you please look up what is written about hcg for post cycle therapy . I am trying to figure out where I got the whole "6 day spread for taking hcg shots" from. I thought it was from the article I pasted into this thread, but after re-reading it, it's not clear to me that he suggests 6 days or what. So, I'm thinking I might have gotten from Anabolics2K. Thanks to whoever looks that up. I loaned my copy to a buddy, so it's not here to look at.

[PHATCAT]

Anabolic 2000

The usal protocal is to inject 1500-3000 iu every (4th-5th) day for a duration usally no longer than 2-3 weeks . If used for to long or at too high of a dose the drug may actually finction to desensitize the Leydig's cells to Lutenizing Hormone , futher hindering a return to homeostasis! Timing the inital dose is also very crucial . If you were cycle of sustanon for example , testosterone levels in your blood will likely stay elevated for at least 3-4 wks after your last injection. Taking HCG onthe day of your last shot would therefore be useless . Instead one would want to calculate this last week in which androgen levels would be above normal, and begin ancillary theropy at this point . In this case HCG would be started around 3-4 wk. Considering the As used also plays a large role in prescription. EQ 8 wk cycle would only need 1500-2500iu as likely sufficaient dosage. On the other hand 750-1000mgs of SUS per week might incline the user to inject a much larger dose, perhaps as much as 5000iu for the opening application It would also be a good idea to lower the dosage on subsequent shots, so as to step down the intale of HCG during the 2 or 3 wks of intake.Hcg mimics the action of LH. It is like wise not the perfect hormone to combat testoterone suppression, and for this reason it is used most often in conjunction with estrogen antagonist. These drugs have a different effect on the regulating system namely inhibiting the estrogen - induced suppresion at the hypothalamus . this also helps to restore the release of testosterone through a diffferent mechinism than HCG. Acombination of both drugs appears to be very synergistic. HCG shocking the testes out of inactivity while the antiestrogens helps to later block inhibition on the hypothalamus and resume normal release of gonadotrophins from the pituitary. Begin the anti's fromthe start with HCG then continue after HCG has been discontinued. While unfortunately there is NO WAY to retain all of the muscle gaons produced by AS , using ancillaries to restore a balanced hormonal state is the BEST WAY to minimise the LOSS felt with ending a cycle!!!!!!!!!

Butcher you mentioned 6 day spread here it suggest 4-5. This is what I think you were looking for!!!!!!! Iwish everyone would read this little passage its So vital to keeping gains yet how many POST have you read where Members are taking there AS with out PROPERLY preparing There ANCILLARIES and ANTI'S..........
your protocal seems to work for you but considering this article may be to much and shut some down.
This may also be why you say your NUTS never shrink.....LOL overstimulated! ............PHATCAT

[The Butcher]

Thanks PhatCat. I appreciate your effort. Yeah, I thought it was either 5 or 6 days, but I couldn't recall exactly. Well, after reading that passage, what do you guys think about whether the hcg dose should be spread out over the week, or administered all at once? It looked to me like he was advocating an all at once dosing. However, as the saying goes, "there is more than one way to skin a cat." So, if spreading it out works too, then I suppose that's just one other way to go about getting your test production back.

PhatCat, I have to agree with you on the whole rant about not having your ancilliaries lined up. Everyone is always so eager to fork out $ for stuff that makes them grow, but they seem very stingy when it comes to the stuff that will keep them from getting gyno and keeping their gains!

By the way Ecko, sorry for high-jacking your thread to talk about hcg administration. But, I suppose it is pertinate since I am talking about taking it when coming off of a year-long cycle. Surely more than 3 or 4 of us do long cycles and have some input about this subject. Rickson, where you at? One post on this thread and that's it? Given the cycle you outlined, (ie 12-16 on, then cruise for 8) does that mean that you are on year-round as well? Or, do you take the 4 to 6 month recovery time you mentioned?

[JohnnyB]

Here's my cycle that I've started. I'm sure it'll change as time goes on.

I'm on HRT, so I'm always on at least 100mg of cyp a week. I'll be running t3, HGH and hcg with my gear. I'm using t3, 3-14, the cycleon method 100mcg max. HGH 23-55, 16 weeks 2iu 5 on 2 off and 16 weeks 2iu ed. HCG 2 days a week at 500iu a day, while I'm on gear. I'm not running the t3 and HGH together because it's been shown to stop IGF-1. T3 alone raises HGH slightly. The first part of my cycle is QV gear and the second part is human grade. Glucophage all the way through at 500mg 2x a day, up it if I need to. This is up dated since the last time I posted it. I might do prop/fina/masteron /var weeks 39-46, which would mean I would move the var from weeks 33-40 to 39-46, I haven’t decided yet.

1 prop 100mg ed
2-4 prop 100mg eod
1-14 enan 250mg e5d
1-14 eq 225mg e5d
15-17 prop 100mg eod
16-23 anavar 15mg ed
16-17 hcg 2000iu e5d + 20mg nolva
18-20 20mg nolva
21 have blood work do for HRT
22 prop 100mg ed, Testopin-100
23-23 prop 100mg eod
22-38 enan 300mg e5d, ICN
22-38 primo 250mg e5d, Schering, don't worry there real
33-40 20mg anavar
39-40 100mg prop eod
39-40 hcg 2000iu e5d + nolva 20mg
41 back to HRT for 4-6 months.

JohnnyB

[PHATCAT]

No problem Bro Im learning alot with this thread as I mentioned and I do wish some more BROS would chime in with there EXPERIENCES on these longer cycles Doesnt mean they have to be Year Long.....EVEN 3 mons./ 6mons. , but "Higher dose stacks" and Espesially if theres any out there closer to my height and weight 5'8" 215lbs. 16% BF.........I want to see the effectivness with them and how much they kept! HOW it is altering there Muscle Maturity and Set Point! Its NOT easy gettin to that 250 mark!!!!!!!

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by PHATCAT
No problem Bro Im learning alot with this thread as I mentioned and I do wish some more BROS would chime in with there EXPERIENCES on these longer cycles Doesnt mean they have to be Year Long.....EVEN 3 mons./ 6mons. , but "Higher dose stacks" and Espesially if theres any out there closer to my height and weight 5'8" 215lbs. 16% BF.........I want to see the effectivness with them and how much they kept! HOW it is altering there Muscle Maturity and Set Point! Its NOT easy gettin to that 250 mark!!!!!!!

Hey Bro you should pm IFL79, I think he went up to 1500mg or 2000mg I believe, on a 60 weeker.

JohnnyB

[skii96]

Yeah on my 8 month cycle i went up to 2g's of test. Im 5'9 and around 230-235 around 8% BF. Im only 21 so muscle maturity is still happening and i can see it getting better and better as i get older and older. I am going to bulk up for a little longer now then start dieting in July for my show in Sept!!!!!

[The Butcher]

JB, that's quite the intricate cycle. No heavy oral androgens, huh? Out of curiousity, if you are on HRT, what's the point in the HCG ? Is that to combat testicular atrophy, or do you have another reason? Have you tried the Glucophage before? What were your results, or what are you expecting to have it help with? What kind of var are you using? Var is about the only thing I've never tried (too damn expensive 'round here). I like how you have stacked your test so that you end the Enan but keep your levels up with the prop until you hit the hcg 3 weeks after the enan stops. I might have to try that at the end of this one.

[skii96]

JB what are your stats? Curious, thanx.

[PHATCAT]

Ya, you guys fill in yur stats on the profile Then I would have KNOWN WHOS WHO and whats what !!!!!! and thanks JB Ill hit him up, Im thinkin more like startin with Tren /prop.kick off, followed w/ 1g TEST enan. or cyp, w/ front load Adrols or Dbols finishing with prop/tren! Over 6 months for the first time stretch at those doses, then 2 mon Break and get things back in check hcg , clomid, and novaldex then re-evaluate the plan! Never been over 14 weeks! ITS Nothin compared to your guys year stack but Ill do it slow and steady work my way up safely!!! LISTENING to my body!

[JohnnyB]

The hcg is to keep my nut(only have 1) from turning into a raisin. The gulcophage is for insulin resistance, which hgh can cause. It's the same idea as using slin, but not as potent. The var is the orange Pentagon shaped ones from China. I may up the test and primo in the second half of the cycle. I'm thinking of doubling my dose in the second part of the cycle or doing a gram a week of the combination.

Hey Bro you didn't mention what kind of slin you're using. So here a chart on how long different slins are active. I got it from Harvey Balboner at FG. Humalog is the shortest acting slin, but it still in the system almost 6 hours, which would be cutting it close. You should look into hgh/slin injections.

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

Skii I'm an old man, 47 years old, 6' 310lbs. Hoping to be at 260-270 at about 10% b/f when this is all said and done. Which I think is more then doable.

JohnnyB

[skii96]

Very cool! What week are you in on your posted cycle?

[JohnnyB]

I'm in week 6, it seems to be working out fine, but we'll see how it all turns out. I think the disadvantage of long cycles, is they seem to change as time goes on.

JohnnyB

[The Butcher]

JB, I'm using Humilin R. I've seen that chart you listed, but the thing it doesn't give you is a value on the y-axis to tell you exactly how much of it is in your system. Yeah, it's does dependant as far as the actual value goes, but I guess what I am still looking for is whether taking the slin that late is affecting anything as you hypothesized it might. Oh well, this shit all gets so damn complicated sometimes. What happened to the day when i could gain 30 pounds off 500mg/week of Sus for 10 weeks?! Long gone, they are.

I think if I were you, I'd probably bump up the test for the second half as you suggested you might. Maybe just one of the tests, and not the other. Say 600mg/week of Enan, or perhaps 700mg/week of the Prop. I'd probably do the Prop. But, as you also suggested, the problem with long cycles is that they are constantly changing. I get tired of doing shit after awhile and get lazy with some of the stuff. It seems like such a pain in the ass to load all the syringes and mix shit together in one syringe, etc. I have to laugh when I read the posts by guys that get excited when shot day comes around b/c I used to feel the same way. Now, I'm like, shit is it shot day again?

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to start doing my slin and gh at the same time. Like I said before, as far getting and staying lean, I found that PM only shots really worked the best for me. So, maybe I'll switch back. I'm thinking I might get back off of the slin b/c I can't really say that it has done a whole hell of alot for me, and I feel like I am holding water for no reason this week. Who knows. Like you said, things on long cycles have a tendency to change quite a bit.

A buddy of mine did say something interesting to me today that he found on Chad Nicholls website. I guess Chad is suggesting that slin be taken 2x a week, 3x a day at something like 10iu a time. Essentially take it three times throughout the day on Monday, and then take it 3 times throughout the day on Thursday and that's it for the week. He couldn't recall the reasoning behind this, but I'm a bit curious to find out. I'll see if I can't dig up why he suggests doing that.

Skii, sounds like you should be doing pretty damn good in your show given your current stats. Damn, only 21 and already built like that. Very nice.

Oh, and JB, you're six inches shorter than me, but you weigh 10 more pounds than I do! You fucker!!!!

[JohnnyB]

LOL, Bro you must be reading my mind I was thing the same thing about upping the test to 600mg.

When you do your pm shots do you do an am also or just pm? I've been hearing mixed reviews on this, some say am and pm other pm only. Some say your hgh is shut down 24 hours after injection, some 4-6 and others 12. Like you said what happened to the days when you could do some test make your gains and move on to the next cycle.

I know what you mean about the injection, I use suppose to do my hcg yesterday, I remember this morning.

JohnnyB

[The Butcher]

Originally I just did PM only shots. Right before I went to bed. This was about a year and a half ago. When I started the gh again (3 months ago) I did the AM and PM shots where I divided my doses up between the two. For the past 3 weeks I have been doing AM only. I really didn't think much of the AM and PM shots. The typical numbness I would get in my hands/arms that I used to get was not there. When I switched to AM only shots, I got it for a little while, but now I really don't feel it. So, who the hell knows. I am thinking that since I want to lean out a little more now, I will switch back to PM only shots since it seemed to work well for me before. To add to our confusion, I saw a post the other day that suggested that once the growth was injected it was in and out of your system in 30 minutes! So, looks like I'll have to get off of my ass and search the net for some true scientific answers as opposed to what I find on a bunch of bodybuilding boards! Not that these boards don't have good info, but it all gets so convoluted some times that it's hard to say which was correct.

Yeah, bump it to 600. Are you using Primotest? Answered my own question ( I saw the ICN on there). Primotest is pretty much my favorite test. I don't really hold water on Enan, so I like to use it over most any of the other tests. But, if you don't mind the frequent shots, Prop is a good one too. But, as I said before, when i get lazy the shots aren't always spaced out like they should be, which can be a problem for keeping levels even when you are using a short ester like Prop.

Don't forget your HCG . Gotta keep that nut swole!

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by The Butcher
Don't forget your HCG . Gotta keep that nut swole!

LMAO I;ve heard hgh has a half life of 20-30 minutes too, but they say it take 3-4 hours before your liver converts it to IGF-1. That's suppost to be the reason some say don't do hgh injection closer then 6 hour of each other. I know what you mean about things getting convoluted.

I just read a post of someone wanting to do hgh iv, which is awhole different ball game. That's not for me.

JohnnyB

[skii96]

Originally posted by The Butcher
A buddy of mine did say something interesting to me today that he found on Chad Nicholls website. I guess Chad is suggesting that slin be taken 2x a week, 3x a day at something like 10iu a time. Essentially take it three times throughout the day on Monday, and then take it 3 times throughout the day on Thursday and that's it for the week. He couldn't recall the reasoning behind this, but I'm a bit curious to find out. I'll see if I can't dig up why he suggests doing that.

Skii, sounds like you should be doing pretty damn good in your show given your current stats. Damn, only 21 and already built like that. Very nice.

Oh, and JB, you're six inches shorter than me, but you weigh 10 more pounds than I do! You fucker!!!!

I think this is a good way to run slin when NOT on GH. I've tried it and i seemed to gain alot less fat then when i used it on my workout days. But since you're on growth i suggest taking it on the days you use growth 1-2x a day, depnding on how much growth you are using.

And thanx for the complement bro. Im still not even close to where i want to be but im getting there. Dieting down is very hard for me and i am still finding better and better ways of doing it that my body responds to. I'd love to get up to 250-260 lean then diet down and walk on stage a hard 220 or so! Time will tell.....

[The Butcher]

Any of you guys (JB, Skii, Phatcat) notice we are the only one's that have replied to this thread for the last 4 days? Way to keep it going fellas!!!!!!!

The moderators are probably like, "allright, enough with this thread already!"

Skii, speaking of getting fat, I seem to have done so in these past two weeks. It is one of two things ( I know it's not diet, b/c that has been really good):

1)I started my slin again two weeks ago, and it has made me fat.

2)I also started the two weeks of 1g of Primotest only, and that has made me hold water.

I think it is water, b/c I carried a bag earlier today with the strap across my forearm, and the indentation stayed there for over an hour. This is kind of odd though, b/c Primotest (in the past) has not made me hold water like this. I have been on Primotest for the past 10 weeks or so, and I was leaner when taking the dbol and drol with it!!!! WTF?!!! I've got a couple of tabs of Armidex I am going to take, and then I switch to Sus next week. Hopefully it will take this god awful bloat off of me. I also stopped the slin. Maybe I will try the 2 days a week thing. Oh, and I am going to move my gh shots to the PM. Perhaps that will help too.

Oh, and JB, no thanks on the IV gh injection. I'll pass too.

[PHATCAT]

Ya Butcher I do wish more would contribute, but it just might be that you (Butcher), ski, and JB are the only ones Here doing this type of regemin!!! I think most stick to the SUS/ DECA or Eq stack 10-12 weeks for bulking and Fina/ prop/ winny for cut, from what Im reading! Thats pretty funny considering your cutting phase was triple there bulking phase ( Butcher)! LOL
Hey about that slin what do you think are your actual gains from this supp. added to your stack? seems most all see a large gain in fat, is it worth the gains you achive in LBM??? ALSO I was wondering if you think its worth it how much of it would you contribute to your large leap in size! If I remember right you said you remember saying you thought 275 would be huge now your pushing for 330/ maybe 350! I geuss the real questin is comparing all the AS which maid the biggest Impact GH? SLIN? 1g + test over the long hall??????????? AND I havent forgottin your 300 @ 6'6 and 300+ isnt unrealistic for you!!!! But me at little 5'8 , DAMN your about a foot taller than me!!!! Jolly Green Giant

[The Butcher]

LOL, I'm not always Jolly.
As far as what has made the biggest impact, it is hard to say. Like I said in one of my other posts, "what ever happened to the day when I could take 500mg/week of Sus and gain 30lbs?!" JB sympathized with that one.

But, I would have to say that staying on test for longer periods of time is one of the biggest things that has helped set my new "natural set-point" as far as bodyweight is concerned. it's not so much that you have to use 1g+, but rather what works best for you. Some guys still respond well to 500-750mg/week of test. For financial reasons alone I wish I could take less stuff than I do.

I will have to be totally honest and tell you that I haven't really been blown away by growth or slin. I feel like the slin helped to give me some incredible pumps, but it's not like I put on 30 pounds by taking it. But, given I feel like I have stretched what my body would naturally hold by quite a bit, it's probably unrealistic to assume that anything at this point would allow me to put on over about 12-15lbs at a time. And when I say 12-15 pounds, I am talking about lbm, not just weight for the sake of weighing more. I'm sure I could put on 30-40lbs on a cycle if I wanted to, but 20 of it would be fat. Who needs that?

I did not notice that slin put fat on me. If you eat right, then slin shouldn't make you fat. I think that those who say slin made them fat were probably trying to bulk when using slin, and subsequently they ate like shit (to try and bulk) so they got fat. But, if they had eaten right, the slin should have been fine to use. Notice guys often get fat when bulking even if they don't use slin. Heavy androgens can do that too you, expecially when you are trying to up your calories considerably when trying to bulk.

[skii96]

Butcher i noticed that when i went up to the 1500mg/wk mark of test i actually started to burn fat off easier. Not sure if all that test had any effect on my metabolism, but it sure seemed like it did.

Yeah and im with Butcher on the slin part. I was taking it 3x a day, 5x a week at 10iu's a shot. I tried keeping my diet as clean as possible but i still gained about 15lbs of fat that i didnt need. This is why i stick with the 2-3 days a week thing now and have had no fat gain. Actually i think if you used it 3x a week post work out and took more frequent time off it you wouldnt gain the fat either. Going 2 wks on 1 wk off while bulking would allow you to eat more of what you want too and then when taking slin it would be easier to eat cleaner cause you have binged and gotten that out of your system. Just something i have noticed for myself.

Also a little tip if you are really having problems with gaining fat with slin is to take some HCA with your slin shot. You can look up the explanation of this over on BB'ing.com, and also pick it up there too.

[PHATCAT]

Thanks Butcher and Thanks Ski !!! I put this up before but I guess Ill try again WHAT do you guys think??? PLAN, startin with Tren /prop.kick off, followed w/ 1g TEST enan. or cyp, w/ front load Adrols or Dbols finishing with prop/tren! Over 6 months for the first time stretch at those doses, then 2 mon Break and get things back in check hcg , clomid, and novaldex then re-evaluate the plan! Never been over 14 weeks! ITS Nothin compared to your guys year stack but Ill do it slow and steady work my way up safely!!! LISTENING to my body! NOW this is First Longer cycle soooooooooo ....... Can you critique it for me???

[skii96]

Heres what i would do with the gear you said.......

wks 1-4, 8-11 Dbol 50mg/ed
wks 1-16 Test enan or cyp 1g/wk
wks 17-24 Test prop 100mg/ed
wks 17-24 Fina 75-100mg/ed

Now i would throw in HCG wks 12, 16, 20, 24 @ 1000iu's/ed each of the wks i stated. I would also run some arimidex /liquidex @ .5-1mg/ed throughout this cycle and post cycle recovery.

[The Butcher]

Phatcat, I think Skii has a pretty good layout there. You might notice that once you get 16+ weeks into it that you don't really gain much as far as weight goes, but there will be a shift in body composition, so if the scale psychs you out, stay off of it at that point. Look at your body, not at the scale.

Skii, I think you are right about the fat burning on 1500mg/week of test. Here is one for you guys to contimplate. Currently I am in the second week of my 1g/week of Primotest only before I hit the Sus/Winny/EQ combo next week. I am holding water worse now than I have this entire cycle. Some of it might be fat too, but it seems more like water. I never hold water on Primotest, yet that is all I am taking, and I look fat as shit. I got on the scale last night, and I was at 304lbs AFTER my workout. I was 300lbs. preworkout on Monday. So, in four days I have gained 4+lbs. My diet has been the same, if not cleaner than it was all of this cycle. Anyone care to guess why in the hell I am suddenly holding so much damn water? The vascularity in my arms has almost disappeared, and my stomach looks watery as a mofo. I did slin and my creatine/dextrose mix last week for the first time in about 3 weeks, but I cut it out this week b/c I felt the water coming on, and I thought it might have been from that. I got my BP checked today (and will tomorrow as well to be sure) and it was at the upper end of normal. So, that's not too bad. Any guesses as to why this might have occurred?

I'm back on 1500mg/week of test next week, so maybe that will help.

[PHATCAT]

Yes I wil be following his advice here, only considering if every thing comes through sup wise! Thanks you Guys!!!!

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by PHATCAT
Yes I wil be following his advice here, only considering if every thing comes through sup wise! Thanks you Guys!!!!

Hey getting ready to go for a long cycle. You'll probably change it once you start, I think that's one of the problems with longer cycles, you have more time to tweak it to much. With a 10 or 12 you just do it, with them a longer one your always trying to fine tune it. But go with the one skii layed out, I'm not much on d-bol, but that looks sensible. You basiclly have 2 cycle in one there, whivh should be easy to stick to. Good luck Bro.

JohnnyB

[PHATCAT]

Thanks again! What Do you guys think of Anadrols over the dbols? I was leaning towards those more!

[JohnnyB]

I'm not much on orals, except for var, so I can't comment.

JohnnyB

[skii96]

I love my naps!

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by skii96
I love my naps!

I figured you did

JohnnyB

[skii96]

lol, and thais too. )

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by skii96
lol, and thais too. )

So you have more then one love do ya

JohnnyB