First Cutting Cycle (Actually Researched)

[Deez55]

To start, stats:

Age: 30
Height: 6'7"
Weight: 266
BF: Dunno
Cycle Exp: Currently on 2nd bulking cycle (more info in a bit)
PCT Knowledge: I get my PCT through my doctor. He knows everything I take, for how long and at what doseages. I see him once a month and get blood work every time. All he's concerned with is that I regain all my natural bodily functions (test production, etc) and can have kids at some point in my life afterwards.
Training Exp: I have been lifting heavy, more of a body builder style for about 8-9 years but got pretty serious about gaining size a year ago
Diet: I go to a nutritionist every 3-4 weeks who also knows everything I'm taking and adjusts my diet accordingly depending on what I'm looking to do. He knows his shit and I listen to him. Diet is in check.

My first cycle ever was at the end of last year. 10 weeks of:
300 mg test enan
200 mg tren enan
200 mg mast enan

I gained 21 lbs lean mass and lost just over 4% body fat (started at 14.31%)

Did my 4 weeks of PCT per my doctor and started my 2nd cycle which I am now in my 5th week of.

Cycle 2:

200 mg Test cyp every 5 days
450 mg Test enan every week
300 mg tren enan every week
300 mg mast enan every week
25 mg Clomid ED
.50 mg Armidex EOD

I plan to continue this cycle for a total of 10 weeks, maybe extending to 12 depending on what my doctor thinks or if you guys yell at me for something.

On to the point. For my cutting cycle, I plan to use:

- 200 mg test cyp every 5 days
- 100 mg Var every day
- 140 mg Clen every day (start at 20 mg and bump up 20 ED until 140 or i notice too many sides)
- 120 mg L-T3 every day (start at 40 and bump up 40 EOD)
- Benadryl (use instead of Ketotifen, NO IDEA WHAT DOSEAGE OR HOW OFTEN, HELP)
- 5g Taurine every day
(Note: I always have clomid, novaldex and arimidex on hand just in case)

(Looking to get down to 4-5%. just for me, no competitions or anything)

My main questions are these:

How much Benadryl to take and how often?

I will do my PCT for ~4 weeks after my cycle per my doctor, will 4 weeks post cycle be too soon to start a cutting cycle? Should I wait an extra month or so and let my body adjust to keeping the newly added muscle?

How long should I let this cycle go on?

Everything I have read has said clen is 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off unless you use Benadryl or ketotifen, in which case you can go up to 8 weeks. My plan is to do a cutting cycle for somewhere between 8-12 weeks, all depending on how quickly I get to where I want to be or any new information I find between now and then. I will most likely run the test and var for the full 12 weeks just because I want to. Keep all my gains and fat losses throughout the summer

Any thoughts, suggestions, flaming etc would be much appreciated.

In the beginning I told my nutritionist I wanted to look like dwayne Johnson. He laughed and said "Alright, it's going to suck but we can do it". My arms are within 1 inch of his. STOKED

[DamageDealer]

1. Prop is better to use in cutting cycles than cyp
2. I don't get why you want to be 4-5% bf if you're not competing? you do realise it's virtually impossible to hold your bf that low without tremendous doses of gear? you're pretty much putting your health at risk for nothing, which is stupid, because imho 4-5% doesn't even look that good in real life

[Brohim]

Lets see a pic of you at your current 7%

[Deez55]

....

[dsldsl1980]

I'm no pro but I'm guessing there going to put you at about 9% BF with that pic.

[DanB]

benadryl dosnt work that an outdated approach

keto is what you need to upregulate beta-2 receptors

and no not 7.8% I.M.H.O

how did you measure that?

[Deez55]

I'm no pro but I'm guessing there going to put you at about 9% BF with that pic.

That's fine. It doesn't look like a traditional 8% body fat person, but all I can go on is what the dude tells me. I don't have a fancy water tank sitting around where I can measure the water displa***ent and get a more accurate count.

[Deez55]

benadryl dosnt work that an outdated approach

keto is what you need to upregulate beta-2 receptors

and no not 7.8% I.M.H.O

how did you measure that?

Thanks for the advice. I didn't measure it. Maybe he's lying to me, that's honestly not the point of this whole thread.

[DanB]

no sorry i wasnt implying that it was, just usually the measurement is only as accurate as the man taking it and sometimes they also have motives, your looking good none the less

ok i just reread because if im honest i only skimmed through and saw the clen first time around because its late,

but your cycle is a bit unconventional

why test e and cyp? personally i would just pick one and stick to it, far easier

what is your line of thinking on clomid during cycle? not something i can say i have done before

if it is prolactin issues from the tren that worrys you then have nolvadex or caber on hand

i would run the test for 12 weeks tren for 10, pct start time will depend on what test you decide to use

here is a thread which lists most common start times
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...s#.T1WIYnktmSo

sorry i re-read again lol its late here haha they are all questions about your current cycle ah well. . . . .

time on + pct = time off, so in your case thats 10 or 12 week cycle + 2 week wait for pct + 4 week pct = either 16 or 18 weeks off

your proposed cutting cycle looks fine, im about to run t3 and im starting at 25mcg and bumping by 25mcg eod up to mabey 125mcg then taper back down in same fashion, i dont know how yours is dosed but personally i wouldnt jump by 40mcg at a time, big difference between 40 and 80 and again 80 and 120

i would also use prop personally there is no real reason not to use cyp, possibly more bloat and takes longer to kick in but just my preference really

if prop then 8 weeks is fine, cyp then i would go for 12

sorry if i missed anything, its late and im off too bed any more questions post them up, if they arent answered by somebody else tonight for you i shall check back in morning

oh yeah the clen can be 2-4-6-even 8 weeks with ketofien but prolonged use comes with health risks and also having to endure sides for long periods, the t3 will do the job nicely mabey just run the clen 2 weeks on/off or even look into ECA, its proven to be effective for up to (dont quote me on this) 16 weeks I think, if not that exact lenght then somewhere in that region, im too tired to look it up lol

good luck bro

[Deez55]

Thank you DanB.

The reason for my jacked up test e and cyp is because the test e, tren and mast comes as a tri-blend with all 3 in there. The cyp i got from my doctor and insurance pays for it so I figured since I have it, might as well take it.

Clomid is because my doctor prescribed it to me and said it would help keep the testies at their normal size. I must say I have noticed zero shrinkage this go around as opposed to the first cycle I did.

16-18 weeks off.....gew....so long, lol. But I know that's the safest way to do it.

I'll definitely take your advice on not jumping by 40 on the t3 each time, no real reason to for me.

As far as prop vs cyp.....I figured with the small amount of test i'd actually be taking (200 mg), there would be minimal water retention anyways.....perhaps I'm underestimating?

I have done the eca stack before and am aware of it. I'll probably judge what I do based on how the sides from clen are affecting me. If i'm actually able to sleep at night and not have my hands shaking so bad I can't take a drink, I'll probably just stay on it. We shall see.

My only remaining question is, how much Keto should I take? From what I've found, people take 1 mg 2 times a day, up to 2 mg twice a day. Thoughts?

Thanks again.

[DamageDealer]

deez55, you've got be kidding me with your picture. you're nowhere close to 7.8%, maybe like 14-15% or even more. At 10% you should have fully visible abs, while at the moment you have excess fat on your stomach, bro. with that much bf, you can actually cut naturally, without the use of aas.

[D7M]

Agreed with DanB. Good post.

Only thing I would add is, yes, you're not 7%bf. More like 12-14. But that's ok, that's why you're cutting.

And I wouldn't go up to 140mcg of T3. You really shouldn't need to go over 100mcg/ED.

[DanB]

I was about to tell you to dose keto at 1mg before bed each night and was looking for something to back this up

Had a look and surprise, surprise swifto already has it covered

Orginally posted by Swifto

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...777&query_hl=6
Effects of ketotifen on the responsiveness of peripheral blood lymphocyte beta-adrenergic receptors.
"The effects of ketotifen therapy on the responsiveness of lymphocyte beta-adrenergic receptors was evaluated by measuring cyclic AMP elevations caused by isoproterenol [a beta2-agonist] in cells isolated from patients treated with ketotifen for more than 1 year. Binding of 3H-dihydroalprenolol to beta-receptors was also evaluated. The isoproterenol-induced rise in cyclic AMP relative to each individual's baseline level was greater in patients on current ketotifen therapy than in other asthmatic patients or non-asthmatic subjects. Ketotifen therapy increased the apparent equilibrium dissociation constant for specific 3H-dihydroalprenolol binding to the receptors. Receptor numbers in symptomatic asthma patients on standard drug therapy were decreased. The results indicate that long term ketotifen therapy is associated with increased responsiveness of beta-receptors to stimulation by catecholamines and that this alteration may involve changes in the receptors themselves, their membrane environment, adenylate cyclase or components of the adenylate cyclase coupling system."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...319&query_hl=2
Effects of ketotifen and clenbuterol on beta-adrenergic receptor functions of lymphocytes
"Applying ketotifen and clenbuterol together the beta-adrenergic receptor function increased compared to the values obtained after application of clenbuterol alone (intraindividual-control) as well as vs. the group of healthies (control). Data presented support the view that therapeutic doses of selective beta 2-agonists do not lead to damage of the beta-adrenoceptor function. The improvement of receptor function after parallel administration of clenbuterol and ketotifen may be a consequence of the participation of ketotifen in the control of beta-adrenergic receptor system."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...180&query_hl=6
Effects... of ketotifen on beta 2 adrenergic receptor regulation in intact human lymphocytes
"KET alone also induced an up-regulation of cell surface beta adrenergic receptors."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...002&query_hl=6

(Tachyphylaxis is rapidly diminishing response to successive doses of a drug, rendering it less effective)
"The majority of the clinical studies in healthy volunteers have shown that chronic inhalation or oral intake of sympathomimetics causes tachyphylaxis of the bronchial beta adrenergic receptors... Several well controlled studies have however shown that chronic administration of sympathomimetics results in a significantly decreased sensitivity of the bronchial beta adrenergic receptor... Corticosteroids, given orally or parenterally, restore the sensitivity of the beta adrenergic receptors. [B]In a double blind, placebo controlled study in healthy subjects we have observed that ketotifen prevents the development of a tachyphylaxis of the bronchial beta adrenergic receptor during prolonged treatment with inhaled sympathomimetics."

Keto 1-2mg before bed.

[DanB]

Clomid on cycle this intreguied me as I hadnt heard of it before so I had a look around, yeah your right enough it seems it was common practise until HCG came onto the scene

And yeah the water retention should be nominal on that dose. if you notice any then start armidex at .25mg eod and that should do the trick

[boxin23]

You say you ended your PCT which you get through your doctor and started your next cycle??? How much time did you take between cycles??

Honestly does not sound like your cycling properly at all brother.

[Deez55]

Keto 1-2mg before bed.

Thanks a ton Dan, you've officially answered my questions.

To the rest, I really don't care what my body fat is. All I said was that's what my nutritionist measured. Maybe he's a quack, maybe not. Either way, that wasn't the point of this thread. Thanks again DanB for being so helpful!

[tall76]

Deez- lookin good bro. I'll put ur bf at around 14-15%. Ur goal of being 4% bf is questionable. It's not healthy to maintain bf levels that low- you will feel like shit and ur workouts will suffer. You can easily get down to 10% and be ripped with diet and cardio- u wouldn't even need clen

[boxin23]

so first cycle was 10 weeks at end of year (so i will guess end of de***ber??) and then 4 weeks of pct....which would put you at the end of jan. then you started next cycle without proper time between cycles. you are in your 5th week now which my math adds up correct puts us right here where we are now....

Did your Doctor and nutritionalist explain PCT to you....you should be cycling something like this...time on=time off + PCT. So where is your 10 week break? If you cared about your system recovering and not having to later deal with limp dick you would be listening to what I am saying.

GL