AAS and Sleep apnea

**boz** · 03-19-2012, 08:21 PM

Hey members, been having terrible nights sleep with snoring really bad and my breathing lately has been shocking, im short of breath, and its like im a contestant of the biggest loser.

My girls, girlfriend told me she reckons i have sleep apnea which kinda makes sense, since i am feeling tired for no apparent reason during the day (to the point i want to sleep), feel lazy, and most signs pointing to it.

Whats the link with AAS and sleep apnea?

I do cruise on test all year round, and i have just finished a small dose of deca .

**gixxerboy1** · 03-19-2012, 08:24 PM

i have it bad. Wife sleeps with ear plugs and takes ambien and still makes me go on the couch some nights. Im not sure if its the actual steroids or the extra weight we carry

**boz** · 03-19-2012, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

i have it bad. Wife sleeps with ear plugs and takes ambien and still makes me go on the couch some nights. Im not sure if its the actual steroids or the extra weight we carry

Either way i never sufferd from this before AAS use, but than again the weight factor could be correct. Either way if im snoring its her going to the couch not me lol she cant move me once im asleep cause everytime she hits me and im snoring, its like i dont know what ive done wrong, and i get hell shitty. Ahh i better start hitting the couch than making me feel bad.

AD · 03-19-2012, 08:36 PM

water retention can occur in your airways too, causing narrowing and snoring. you feeling bloated elsewhere?

**gixxerboy1** · 03-19-2012, 08:36 PM

you will go to to the couch when she tells you that you arent getting any because she is to tired from not sleeping cause of your snoring.

**boz** · 03-19-2012, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by asiandude

water retention can occur in your airways too, causing narrowing and snoring. you feeling bloated elsewhere?

I know when im holding alot of water retention my face is like the moon, but my face is no where near puffed up as that.

AD · 03-19-2012, 09:01 PM

can't think of any other reason why AAS can be related to sleep apnoea. might be coincidental. have you tried any med? ketotifen nightly may decrease some airway inflammation/secretion so you can breathe better. next step might be a steroidal nasal spray. next step after that.. nose surgeon..

AD · 03-19-2012, 09:05 PM

can't think of any other reason why AAS can be related to sleep apnoea. might be coincidental. have you tried any med? ketotifen nightly may decrease some airway inflammation/secretion so you can breathe better. next step might be a steroidal nasal spray. next step after that.. nose surgeon..

**upperhandy** · 03-20-2012, 02:07 AM

TESTOSTERONE REPLA***ENT IN HYPOGONADAL MEN: EFFECTS ON OBSTRUCTIVE SLEEP APNOEA, RESPIRATORY DRIVES, AND SLEEP

A. M. MATSUMOTO*, R. E. SANDBLOM, R. B. SCHOENE, KATHRYN A. LEE, ELIZABETH C. GIBLIN, D. J. PIERSON, W. J. BREMNER

SUMMARY
The obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome occurs predominantly in men. To determine the effect of testosterone on ventilatory function and whether testosterone may play a role in the development of obstructive apnoea, we performed waking ventilatory drive studies and sleep studies in five hypogonadal men. These androgen-deficient subjects were studied both while receiving no treatment and after six weeks of testosterone repla***ent therapy (testosterone oenanthate 200 mg i.m. every 2 weeks). Hypoxic ventilatory drive decreased significantly, from 158 · 39 (mean · SEM) off testosterone to 88 · 19 on testosterone therapy (P < 0.05). Hypercapnoeic ventilatory drive did not change significantly on testosterone. Obstructive sleep apnoea developed in one man and markedly worsened in another man in association with testosterone administration. Both of these subjects also exhibited marked decreases in oxygen saturation with the development of cardiac dysrhythmias during sleep and large increases in haematocrit. The remaining three hypogonadal men did not demonstrate significant sleep apnoea either on or off testosterone. The percentage of sleep time spent in REM sleep increased from 14 · 3% to 22 · 2% when the men were receiving testosterone (P < 0.01), but the episodes of sleep apnoea tended to occur during non-REM sleep. We conclude that in some hypogonadal men, repla***ent dosages of testosterone may affect ventilatory drives and induce or worsen obstructive sleep apnoea. The obstructive sleep apnoea syndrome is a potential complication of testosterone therapy. These results suggest that androgen levels present in normal man may play an important role in the pathogenesis of obstructive sleep apnoea.

**lovbyts** · 03-20-2012, 02:19 AM

Looks like according to the study above it's possible but not likely. You may be one of the lucky ones it made worse. I would try the sprays to help stop snoring and the nose clips or tape things to hold the nostrils open to help breathing.

DONT get the uvula cut. Doesnt work or at least it didnt for me and just like the doctor said, it's 2x as worse as the worst sore throat you ever had.

**gonzo6183** · 03-20-2012, 03:15 AM

I went to the Doc when my snoring went crazy, almost choking myself at times, he said it was purely and simply the extra weight im carrying over what I have naturally spent most of my life at, im a consistant minimum of 20kg over by normal weight upto the age of 28

**auswest** · 03-20-2012, 03:20 AM

Apparently when I was at my biggest 220lbs my mrs reckoned my snoring was terrible sounds like I was chocking and everything, I never used to snore prior to this I have since dropped almost 40lbs and I sleep like a baby, it is a overweight issue, wether fat or muscle I'm not sure. But as I got bigger the worse my snoring was as I cut it disappeared.

**boz** · 03-20-2012, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Looks like according to the study above it's possible but not likely. You may be one of the lucky ones it made worse. I would try the sprays to help stop snoring and the nose clips or tape things to hold the nostrils open to help breathing.

DONT get the uvula cut. Doesnt work or at least it didnt for me and just like the doctor said, it's 2x as worse as the worst sore throat you ever had.

Hmm hopefully not im not the unlucky ones, but than again could be a completely different factor. Have not gone to the doctors yet.

Originally Posted by oznog6183

I went to the Doc when my snoring went crazy, almost choking myself at times, he said it was purely and simply the extra weight im carrying over what I have naturally spent most of my life at, im a consistant minimum of 20kg over by normal weight upto the age of 28

This is exactly the same as me when i sleep on my back, and i wake up its like i have to lay up to bring my breathing back to normal again, cause i missing that much oxygen.

Originally Posted by auswest

Apparently when I was at my biggest 220lbs my mrs reckoned my snoring was terrible sounds like I was chocking and everything, I never used to snore prior to this I have since dropped almost 40lbs and I sleep like a baby, it is a overweight issue, wether fat or muscle I'm not sure. But as I got bigger the worse my snoring was as I cut it disappeared.

The thing i dont get fellas, if u seen my physique and my frame of a body u would think there is no way i could be overweight but than again, i think it is starting to make sense, cause i am starting to creep up to the 220lbs mark as we speak, but atm im only 209lbs give or take. The weight could be a huge factor, i just want a complete diagnosis of what the problem is to treat it for peace of mind.

**600@50** · 03-20-2012, 06:10 AM

I have several family members with sleep apnea. One lost 30 lbs and it cleared up. Another got a c-pap machine and now they sleep through the night. Sleep apnea seems mostly weight related. You may want to try sleeping with your upper body elevated. Maybe in a recliner or elevate the head of your bed somehow.

**ScotchGuard02** · 03-20-2012, 08:16 AM

I wear a CPAP mask when I sleep for my apnea. I feel like Darth Vader. I'm 5'11", 203lbs, 12.5% bf and my neck is 18.5". I was told by the doc that the entire tongue muscle relaxes when I sleep. It gets so relaxed that is literally slides down my throat and chokes me. He said it wasn't my weight. I didn't have apnea before I started cycling. The CPAP machine's great except it's hard to get romantic looking like 'ol Darth.

***FireGuy*** · 03-20-2012, 12:46 PM

It's the extra weight, I had it bad and went on CPAP as well. It by far is the best invention ever. The idea of not snoring and actually sleeping through the night seemed like a pipe dream until I got my mask. I have more energy these days than I know what to do with (well not now being I am precontest). I dont even use a preworkout stimulant. I was also able to put on about 4lbs of muscle this year without any other changes and I attribute that to simply better recovery from better sleep.

**kelkel** · 03-20-2012, 01:08 PM

Ok, don't rag on me but have you considered coming off for a brief period and seeing if there's a difference?

I know, I know....

**upperhandy** · 03-20-2012, 01:13 PM

a couple years ago i read a journal article about the association between testosterone supplementation, neck circumference, and sleep apnea (can't find it right now, but i'll keep looking). obviously testosterone administration will increase neck circumference...

and this is from the mayo clinic website on sleep apnea risk factors:
A neck circumference greater than 17 inches (43 centimeters) is associated with an increased risk of obstructive sleep apnea. That's because a thick neck may narrow the airway and may be an indication of excess weight.

Originally Posted by kelkel

Ok, don't rag on me but have you considered coming off for a brief period and seeing if there's a difference?

I know, I know....

I snore substantially less when off cycle

**gixxerboy1** · 03-20-2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Ok, don't rag on me but have you considered coming off for a brief period and seeing if there's a difference?

I know, I know....

i have. Still snore.

**kelkel** · 03-20-2012, 01:19 PM

I think I'm just predisposed to it also....luckily my wife kicked me out of the bedroom a long time ago!

**FONZY007** · 03-20-2012, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by auswest

Apparently when I was at my biggest 220lbs my mrs reckoned my snoring was terrible sounds like I was chocking and everything, I never used to snore prior to this I have since dropped almost 40lbs and I sleep like a baby, it is a overweight issue, wether fat or muscle I'm not sure. But as I got bigger the worse my snoring was as I cut it disappeared.

I get this as well, as I get heavier I have problems sleeping but as soon weight is dropped breathing is better

**FONZY007** · 03-20-2012, 01:27 PM

My friend has the cpap and the doctor stated to him about 80% of men with broad shoulders will have sleep apnea

**Honkey_Kong** · 03-20-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy

It's the extra weight, I had it bad and went on CPAP as well. It by far is the best invention ever. The idea of not snoring and actually sleeping through the night seemed like a pipe dream until I got my mask. I have more energy these days than I know what to do with (well not now being I am precontest). I dont even use a preworkout stimulant. I was also able to put on about 4lbs of muscle this year without any other changes and I attribute that to simply better recovery from better sleep.

My parents and everybody I know who has one says the same thing about those CPAP masks.

**Hazard** · 03-20-2012, 08:30 PM

My father has it real bad..... went to a sleep study and they told him he stopped breathing for 90-100 seconds in his sleep. He's now on a cpap and sleeps through the nite..... no snoring. Before the cpap he would literally sleep all fvcking day when he wasn't working..... then sleep all night. His sleep was so shitty.....

I never snored at night..... that is.... until I hit 250lbs. Once the snoring started.... it never went away.

~Haz~

**boz** · 03-20-2012, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy

It's the extra weight, I had it bad and went on CPAP as well. It by far is the best invention ever. The idea of not snoring and actually sleeping through the night seemed like a pipe dream until I got my mask. I have more energy these days than I know what to do with (well not now being I am precontest). I dont even use a preworkout stimulant. I was also able to put on about 4lbs of muscle this year without any other changes and I attribute that to simply better recovery from better sleep.

How long did it take u to adjust to sleeping with a mask on, cause i wont lie, im a horrible sleeper, which is why i take at least 1mg of melatonin. The thought of a mask holding onto my face and sleeping seems like hell. Than again the thought of having alot of energy, is certainly appealing to. I was really thinking of heading down the path of getting my Adenoids removed, anything but wearing a mask.

Originally Posted by kelkel

Ok, don't rag on me but have you considered coming off for a brief period and seeing if there's a difference?

I know, I know....

Will consider definitely.

Originally Posted by Hazard

My father has it real bad..... went to a sleep study and they told him he stopped breathing for 90-100 seconds in his sleep. He's now on a cpap and sleeps through the nite..... no snoring. Before the cpap he would literally sleep all fvcking day when he wasn't working..... then sleep all night. His sleep was so shitty.....

I never snored at night..... that is.... until I hit 250lbs. Once the snoring started.... it never went away.

~Haz~

Well thats the thing, i will be alert most of the day than i will have these moments ill just completely want to shut down and lay down on the lounge, and have a quick half an hour cap nap.

**boz** · 12-12-2012, 12:16 AM

Im going to bump this thread simply because of the fact i have had my tonsils removed now i breath ALOT better now though and i still have the symptoms associated with it. I will get my CPAP asap when i do i will keep posted on how its all going. I found this article on another forums. I have been feeling very forgetful lately like my mind is elsewhere all the time, just not with it. I'm on 500mg sus and 200mg tren e and 100mcg clen ed for 2 weeks 2 weeks off not sure if that has anything to do with it, but i will post the article maybe it has to do with this.

"Testosterone administration can cause sleep apnea to worsen or develop. It's also not always related to the thickining of the neck. It can also be attributed to what is known as central apnea. This is an apnea event where the body basically forgets to breath. It's a neurochemical problem that can happen from external testosterone administration.

For those of you that know you have sleep apnea and arent' on a CPAP your playing w/your life. It's very dangerous to have untreated sleep apnea. Here is a list of what will happen if you have sleep apnea as time goes on.

1. Insulin sensitivity
2. memory loss
3. fat gain
4. low testosterone
5 loss of libido/erections
6. heart trouble

I know all but the heart trouble but left untreated it's only a matter of time. Sleep apnea causes a hormonal cascade because of the constant waking and inablility to sleep through all stages. The pituitary LH/FSH secretion is disrupted as well as other hormones.

In regards to a CPAP DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT except a CPAP that constantly blows when you exhale. They make them that stop blowing for a split second as you exhale so you can breath out. This makes a huge difference in compliance. They always try and peddle this low in CPAP for the first one. Don't accept it. You will just be waisting your time and either stop using it upon the first week of getting it or be back getting the one you should have to begin with..

In regards to the mask. Get a full face mask. MOST people are mouth breathers. Just using nassal pillows will not work for the majority of people because they just open their mouth and breath through it which renders the CPAP useless. GET A FULL FACE MASK from the get go.

If you follow my advice I promise you will have a much better experience w/your sleep apnea. What I just told you was th sum of 9 years of trials for me.

Best of luck."

**Emerald** · 12-12-2012, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by auswest

Apparently when I was at my biggest 220lbs my mrs reckoned my snoring was terrible sounds like I was chocking and everything, I never used to snore prior to this I have since dropped almost 40lbs and I sleep like a baby, it is a overweight issue, wether fat or muscle I'm not sure. But as I got bigger the worse my snoring was as I cut it disappeared.

Being a disciple of common sense I buy this response. I've come from a distance running background and being ultra lean. Since 08 I'm almost 50 lbs heavier and snoring has be one an issue. I'll add my own opinion: I think it's specifically extra fat/muscle in the throat, neck and face areas, perhaps the large pecs as well.

**Dukkit** · 12-12-2012, 09:18 AM

Broader shoulders make your head rest at a different angle while sleeping.
Which can cause throat obstruction.

More muscles usually mean bigger/thicker necks.
As stated by someone above... thicker necks can cause airway obstruction.

My sleep doc said men with necks measuring over 18 inches are more prone to sleep apnea.

All of these are caused by weight gain. Be it muscle or fat.

**fit2bOld** · 12-12-2012, 10:31 AM

I had a surgical procedure for sleep apnea was a great thing also keeping my body fat under 15% makes a big difference as well.

**Capebuffalo** · 12-12-2012, 10:45 AM

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea well before I ran any cycle and was well under 200 lbs. closer to 180 probably. Sleep test showed I was waking up 68 times an hour. So it is not a weight issue in every case. CPAP worked for a while now it fills me full of air. So looking for an alternative.

**deladude** · 12-12-2012, 02:37 PM

I get HORRIBLE sleep apnea while on tren

**boz** · 12-12-2012, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by deladude

I get HORRIBLE sleep apnea while on tren

Running tren atm i may have to keep this in mind.

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea well before I ran any cycle and was well under 200 lbs. closer to 180 probably. Sleep test showed I was waking up 68 times an hour. So it is not a weight issue in every case. CPAP worked for a while now it fills me full of air. So looking for an alternative.

You see the problem with me i didnt know what it was until i got together with my ex gf, her friend told me why i fe.lt tired all the time and from than on it all started to make sense. I could of had it for a long time, but i believe before aas use i never sufferd from it.

Originally Posted by dukkitdalaw

Broader shoulders make your head rest at a different angle while sleeping.
Which can cause throat obstruction.

More muscles usually mean bigger/thicker necks.
As stated by someone above... thicker necks can cause airway obstruction.

My sleep doc said men with necks measuring over 18 inches are more prone to sleep apnea.

All of these are caused by weight gain. Be it muscle or fat.

Very interesting dukkit thanks mate.