T3 or clen

**Homeslice12** · 07-09-2012, 12:43 PM

LookIng to shed some of bf post cycle. What's better for that. I keep reading clen is hardcore on your body. Not sure at my age I'm up for sleepless nights and shaking all day long. T3 has had some good posts. Any opinions. And I know cardio/diet is the best way to shed it. Thx.

**tboney** · 07-09-2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Homeslice12

LookIng to shed some of bf post cycle. What's better for that. I keep reading clen is hardcore on your body. Not sure at my age I'm up for sleepless nights and shaking all day long. T3 has had some good posts. Any opinions. And I know cardio/diet is the best way to shed it. Thx.

In bold.

I know thats not what you want to hear but it the best solution! I am not a fan of using thyroid hormone for weightloss. In fact I think it is somewhat stupid. I dont care what people say, it can have lasting effects on your thyroid.

I tried clen and it made me to jittery so I have never used it again..

**t-dogg** · 07-09-2012, 02:15 PM

Clen is imo. As said t3 messes with your thyroid. Run clen and see what results you get.

AD · 07-09-2012, 08:26 PM

t3 burns everything, fats and muscles too.
clen and albuterol at least will spare the muscles.

**sharmabrah** · 07-09-2012, 08:28 PM

Cardio.

**blainer** · 07-09-2012, 09:37 PM

T3 can permenantely damage your thyroid and cause you to have to take thyroid meds for the rest of your life. It's a very serious drug that I think to many people jump into using without understanding the side effects.

**Bonaparte** · 07-09-2012, 10:33 PM

So all you guys talking about T3 messing with your thyroid permanently...where are you getting this idea from?

I've used it several times without issue, as have tons of others.
Hell, medical studies all show rapid thyroid recovery as well, even with hypothyroid patients on it for years at a time.

**Razor** · 07-09-2012, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Homeslice12

LookIng to shed some of bf post cycle. What's better for that. I keep reading clen is hardcore on your body. Not sure at my age I'm up for sleepless nights and shaking all day long. T3 has had some good posts. Any opinions. And I know cardio/diet is the best way to shed it. Thx.

Use both if your serious

**mi-chan** · 07-10-2012, 12:49 AM

Hi, I'm no medical expert and a chic to boot... however, I wanted to point out that T3 has been used in the medical community (not just for thyroid issues, but for depression/bipolar as well). It has long standing usage and is considered safe. That being said - you can abuse anything, and understanding what it does is helpful.

It does increase your metabolic rate. Great. Awesome.
It does increase your systolic blood pressure. Ok, maybe not so awesome. That's the figure we don't want creeping up too far past 120
It does increase protein synthesis. Back to pretty awesome.
It does increase your heart rate. Again, maybe not so awesome... Might get palpitations, etc. If you have a history of heart problems, well... be careful.

Important details no one seems to mention:
Kinda important: It can effect your sleep as well.. you take too much, can cause nervousness and sleeplessness (basically you'll mimic hyperthyroidism).
Important: Some folks have an allergic reaction to it. It can cause hives.. or you can have a serious reaction to it. Just be aware of this possibility if you've never taken it.
Very important: In clinical/medical settings - you ramp up on T3. Patients start on a fairly low dose... like 25mcg, and up it after about a week. You can bump it about 25mcg each week... maintenance for someone with a thyroid condition is about 100-150mcg... no idea what recommended dosing is for weight loss for an average sized dude... but I can't shrug off the medical communities advice on ramping up the dosage over 2-3 weeks.... You might consider tapering it down gradually as well... else you might feel peculiar...

All that being said... I'm not advocating one over the other. I think it depends on personal pref and how your body responds. Clen isn't without it's issues - not the least of it being - it's toxic.

I hope some of this was helpful. Best of luck -- m

**Razor** · 07-10-2012, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

Hi, I'm no medical expert and a chic to boot... however, I wanted to point out that T3 has been used in the medical community (not just for thyroid issues, but for depression/bipolar as well). It has long standing usage and is considered safe. That being said - you can abuse anything, and understanding what it does is helpful.

It does increase your metabolic rate. Great. Awesome.
It does increase your systolic blood pressure. Ok, maybe not so awesome. That's the figure we don't want creeping up too far past 120
It does increase protein synthesis. Back to pretty awesome.
It does increase your heart rate. Again, maybe not so awesome... Might get palpitations, etc. If you have a history of heart problems, well... be careful.

Important details no one seems to mention:
Kinda important: It can effect your sleep as well.. you take too much, can cause nervousness and sleeplessness (basically you'll mimic hyperthyroidism).
Important: Some folks have an allergic reaction to it. It can cause hives.. or you can have a serious reaction to it. Just be aware of this possibility if you've never taken it.
Very important: In clinical/medical settings - you ramp up on T3. Patients start on a fairly low dose... like 25mcg, and up it after about a week. You can bump it about 25mcg each week... maintenance for someone with a thyroid condition is about 100-150mcg... no idea what recommended dosing is for weight loss for an average sized dude... but I can't shrug off the medical communities advice on ramping up the dosage over 2-3 weeks.... You might consider tapering it down gradually as well... else you might feel peculiar...

All that being said... I'm not advocating one over the other. I think it depends on personal pref and how your body responds. Clen isn't without it's issues - not the least of it being - it's toxic.

I hope some of this was helpful. Best of luck -- m

Does t4 have the same benefits as t3 that you mentioned?

**tboney** · 07-10-2012, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

Hi, I'm no medical expert and a chic to boot... however, I wanted to point out that T3 has been used in the medical community (not just for thyroid issues, but for depression/bipolar as well). It has long standing usage and is considered safe. That being said - you can abuse anything, and understanding what it does is helpful.

It does increase your metabolic rate. Great. Awesome.
It does increase your systolic blood pressure. Ok, maybe not so awesome. That's the figure we don't want creeping up too far past 120
It does increase protein synthesis. Back to pretty awesome.
It does increase your heart rate. Again, maybe not so awesome... Might get palpitations, etc. If you have a history of heart problems, well... be careful.

Important details no one seems to mention:
Kinda important: It can effect your sleep as well.. you take too much, can cause nervousness and sleeplessness (basically you'll mimic hyperthyroidism).
Important: Some folks have an allergic reaction to it. It can cause hives.. or you can have a serious reaction to it. Just be aware of this possibility if you've never taken it.
Very important: In clinical/medical settings - you ramp up on T3. Patients start on a fairly low dose... like 25mcg, and up it after about a week. You can bump it about 25mcg each week... maintenance for someone with a thyroid condition is about 100-150mcg... no idea what recommended dosing is for weight loss for an average sized dude... but I can't shrug off the medical communities advice on ramping up the dosage over 2-3 weeks.... You might consider tapering it down gradually as well... else you might feel peculiar...

All that being said... I'm not advocating one over the other. I think it depends on personal pref and how your body responds. Clen isn't without it's issues - not the least of it being - it's toxic.

I hope some of this was helpful. Best of luck -- m

I agree. I am aware of the fact that it is safely used by the medical profession for certain conditions as you mentioned above. However docs are not using the same doses and protocol as many use it weight loss. If you have hypothyroidism then yes docs are now starting to use t3 to treat it. I was on t3 for two years to treat my hypothyroidism.....That is different then using it soley for weightloss. I have never heard of them prescribing it [B]to people who have normal, healthy thyroid functioning, at the doses we talk about here. I am not saying that people dont recover just fine.... but some do not. I just feel like fat loss can be acheived through diet and cardio. [/

**tboney** · 07-10-2012, 07:58 AM

Bonaparte,

I agree. Some recover without any issues at all. But some do not.. My endo told me that he has had a couple of patients who have permanently altered their thyroid functioning by using it at the doses we speak of here. Again these are people who had normal thyroid functioning..

**mi-chan** · 07-10-2012, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by tboney

I agree. I am aware of the fact that it is safely used by the medical profession for certain conditions as you mentioned above. However docs are not using the same doses and protocol as many use it weight loss. If you have hypothyroidism then yes docs are now starting to use t3 to treat it. I was on t3 for two years to treat my hypothyroidism.....That is different then using it soley for weightloss. I have never heard of them prescribing it [B]to people who have normal, healthy thyroid functioning, at the doses we talk about here. I am not saying that people dont recover just fine.... but some do not. I just feel like fat loss can be acheived through diet and cardio. [/

T3 is sometimes prescribed (often with other anti-depressants) in people with normal thyroids, for treatment of depression and bipolar.

But I do agree with you - anything is easy to abuse (more is not always better)... I tend to proceed with great caution when mucking with my own personal chemistry. Again, not advocating usage - rather just want to provide some info on using, including risks (ie don't give yourself a heart attack or cause your blood pressure to spike). As for long term damage - that is an area I am uneducated/have a lack of info on. I know of a few long term studies for t3 in depression patients (up to 2 years), with no reported thyroid damage... but, again.. those are controlled studies, with an emphasis on something else.

At lower levels, I'd say it's likely relatively safe - our own t3/t4 levels fluctuate quite a lot... And if someone's coming off a cycle, and they have some degradation in liver function - it might be they aren't converting their own levels of t4 to t3 efficiently.. In this case - it might be a good idea to bump the levels. I don't know - I'm not a doctor... I'd say in the spectrum of drugs discussed in this forum, it probably falls on the safer side in terms of risk (as long as you don't take mega-doses).

And you are absolutely correct - the safest/healthiest path is diet and exercise... no argument there!

**tboney** · 07-10-2012, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

T3 is sometimes prescribed (often with other anti-depressants) in people with normal thyroids, for treatment of depression and bipolar. Right but not 75 to 125 mcgs....
But I do agree with you - anything is easy to abuse (more is not always better)... I tend to proceed with great caution when mucking with my own personal chemistry. Again, not advocating usage - rather just want to provide some info on using, including risks (ie don't give yourself a heart attack or cause your blood pressure to spike). As for long term damage - that is an area I am uneducated/have a lack of info on. I know of a few long term studies for t3 in depression patients (up to 2 years), with no reported thyroid damage... but, again.. those are controlled studies, with an emphasis on something else. Right again but not at dosages of 75 to 125 mcgs...
At lower levels, I'd say it's likely relatively safe - our own t3/t4 levels fluctuate quite a lot... And if someone's coming off a cycle, and they have some degradation in liver function - it might be they aren't converting their own levels of t4 to t3 efficiently.. In this case - it might be a good idea to bump the levels. I don't know - I'm not a doctor... I'd say in the spectrum of drugs discussed in this forum, it probably falls on the safer side in terms of risk (as long as you don't take mega-doses).

And you are absolutely correct - the safest/healthiest path is diet and exercise... no argument there!

Bold

**mi-chan** · 07-10-2012, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by tboney

Bold

Tboney- I'm not gonna get in a pissing match with you b/c you have the equipment advantage on that one, and I think we actually agree... I would never dream of dosing that high, but then again, I barely weigh 100lbs soaking wet (and truthfully, I'm good with the eca stack for a little boost if I'm trying to cut.Yeah, I'm old school that way). And, I think I did point out, at lower levels, it prob ain't a bit deal... can't speak for the dosing you've cited. So, thanks for clarifying.

Really my whole point was if you don't know your blood pressure or have problems with your heart, be cautious. If you're ramping up your cardio and taking something that makes your heart contract harder (like t3), it might be risky. Get big and strong, boys. But be safe.

**mi-chan** · 07-11-2012, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Razor

Does t4 have the same benefits as t3 that you mentioned?

Now, this is where I get a little hazy to be truthful... T4 is actually what the thyroid produces and it's converted to t3 by the liver.... I don't know much about this conversion process, how efficient it is, etc. Taking t4 will increase your t3 levels, so it follows that it will have the same effect over time. The thing I do know - stays in your system longer - any sides might take a bit longer to surface...

Maybe some other folks can chime in - I have heard t4 is 'safer', but that is just word of mouth. Sorry I couldn't provide more info on this one... --m

**Razor** · 07-11-2012, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

Now, this is where I get a little hazy to be truthful... T4 is actually what the thyroid produces and it's converted to t3 by the liver.... I don't know much about this conversion process, how efficient it is, etc. Taking t4 will increase your t3 levels, so it follows that it will have the same effect over time. The thing I do know - stays in your system longer - any sides might take a bit longer to surface...

Maybe some other folks can chime in - I have heard t4 is 'safer', but that is just word of mouth. Sorry I couldn't provide more info on this one... --m

Well I was diagnosed with bipolar and depression stemming from PTSD from the war in the middle east, so anything that helps with those I'm all ears. I'm on t4 and seem to feel a lot better since I been on it. I enjoyed reading your post about this, thank you!

**tboney** · 07-11-2012, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

Tboney- I'm not gonna get in a pissing match with you b/c you have the equipment advantage on that one, and I think we actually agree... I would never dream of dosing that high, but then again, I barely weigh 100lbs soaking wet (and truthfully, I'm good with the eca stack for a little boost if I'm trying to cut.Yeah, I'm old school that way). And, I think I did point out, at lower levels, it prob ain't a bit deal... can't speak for the dosing you've cited. So, thanks for clarifying.

Really my whole point was if you don't know your blood pressure or have problems with your heart, be cautious. If you're ramping up your cardio and taking something that makes your heart contract harder (like t3), it might be risky. Get big and strong, boys. But be safe.

Wow I wasnt aware you were feeling that way.... I thought all along that we were saying the same thing. I was just pointing out that the off label uses were given in doses much lower trhan we talk about here......

**jasc** · 07-11-2012, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

Now, this is where I get a little hazy to be truthful... T4 is actually what the thyroid produces and it's converted to t3 by the liver.... I don't know much about this conversion process, how efficient it is, etc. Taking t4 will increase your t3 levels, so it follows that it will have the same effect over time. The thing I do know - stays in your system longer - any sides might take a bit longer to surface...

Maybe some other folks can chime in - I have heard t4 is 'safer', but that is just word of mouth. Sorry I couldn't provide more info on this one... --m

Since T4 is converted to T3 in the liver, would supplementing T4 further stress the liver and be more dangerous if used in conjunction with other hepatoxic oral AAS? Or would the stress caused by this conversion be negligible?

BTW, Thank you for your knowledge and insight on these thyroid meds. Being new to these compounds this thread has been very informational.

**jasc** · 07-11-2012, 09:35 AM

Tboney, in your opinion, what do you feel is an appropriate maximum dosage for someone who does not require T3 but supplements it for increased fat burn? Also, what legnth of time do you feel would be a responsible maximum for this supplementation?

I'm looking to try T3 and would like to do this as safely as possible. In my research it seems that 50mcg/day can be run with little to no suppression.

**tboney** · 07-11-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by jasc

Tboney, in your opinion, what do you feel is an appropriate maximum dosage for someone who does not require T3 but supplements it for increased fat burn? Also, what legnth of time do you feel would be a responsible maximum for this supplementation?

I'm looking to try T3 and would like to do this as safely as possible. In my research it seems that 50mcg/day can be run with little to no suppression.

I think for those that have decided to use t3 for weightloss and do not have any medical conditions that would make t3 use containdicated...ie, High bp, have to start out low and see how their body reacts. I used it many years ago until I developed hyperthyroidism. Im am NOT sure my t3 use had anything to do with it. In my case I think it was genetic since both of my parents have thyroid issues.... Anyway, I would start very low, maybe 15 mcgs or under, see how you feel, pay attention to any ill effects and move up from there. If your diet and cardio are dialed in I believe that a max 50mcgs should do the trick. As far as length of time, it depends on how much fat you have to lose...

As far as the question of suppression, as I have said before, most people who run t3 responsibly have no issues. There is really no way to know? Most people dont have any lasting ill effects.. but some do, so it is not a question I could answer.

**jasc** · 07-11-2012, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by tboney

I think for those that have decided to use t3 for weightloss and do not have any medical conditions that would make t3 use containdicated...ie, High bp, have to start out low and see how their body reacts. I used it many years ago until I developed hyperthyroidism. Im am NOT sure my t3 use had anything to do with it. In my case I think it was genetic since both of my parents have thyroid issues.... Anyway, I would start very low, maybe 15 mcgs, see how you feel, pay attention to any ill effects and move up from there. If your diet and cardio are dialed in I believe that a max 50mcgs should do the trick. As far as length of time, it depends on how much fat you have to lose...

As far as the question of suppression, as I have said before, most people who run t3 responsibly have no issues. There is really no way to know? Most people dont have any lasting ill effects.. but some do, so it is not a question I could answer.

Thanks man... I was planning to start at 25mcg but maybe I'll try 15 instead, I'm not in a big hurry. I only have maybe 2% to lose and I'll be happy. I've been changin around my diet n cardio with the help of a few good ppl on here and just need to shed those last few stubborn lbs in my mid section.. My top 4 abs show nicely but those bottom 2 seem to never wanna come out. I've run clen in the past n it always makes me feel like sh*t so I figured I'd give this a shot.

**tboney** · 07-11-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by jasc

Thanks man... I was planning to start at 25mcg but maybe I'll try 15 instead, I'm not in a big hurry. I only have maybe 2% to lose and I'll be happy. I've been changin around my diet n cardio with the help of a few good ppl on here and just need to shed those last few stubborn lbs in my mid section.. My top 4 abs show nicely but those bottom 2 seem to never wanna come out. I've run clen in the past n it always makes me feel like sh*t so I figured I'd give this a shot.

I hope it goes well for you ..

**mi-chan** · 07-11-2012, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by tboney

Wow I wasnt aware you were feeling that way.... I thought all along that we were saying the same thing. I was just pointing out that the off label uses were given in doses much lower trhan we talk about here......

Oh hon, I'm not the slight bit offended or taken aback - sorry if I came off that way. I have a bit of a sense of humor and sometimes it doesn't translate right when I type things out... I think you were smart to point out the dosing, glad you did! And glad we are both on the same page. My bad for for communicating otherwise!

**tboney** · 07-12-2012, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by mi-chan

Oh hon, I'm not the slight bit offended or taken aback - sorry if I came off that way. I have a bit of a sense of humor and sometimes it doesn't translate right when I type things out... I think you were smart to point out the dosing, glad you did! And glad we are both on the same page. My bad for for communicating otherwise!

No sweat! I appreciate the humor... its refreshing around here.. We are good to go! You made some great points!