Overweight using test c

[juicyd2012]

I have been on a strict diet. I am using test c and letro on this cycle. Im 5' 10" and weigh 264. My clothes are getting looser, but my weight is staying the same. Im starting to see my biceps develop and get bigger than they ever had. My question is should I use winni while im on this cycle?

[austinite]

No. Winny will do nothing for you. You really shouldnt even cycle test if your body fat is high. You will develop more side effects than benefits.

[Lunk1]

I agree...you may notice some slight body recomp but it's most likely from working out harder and a change in diet (I am assuming there has been). The Test is being wasted for the most part and you would have been alot happier using it once the weight was down.

[juicyd2012]

Thanks, it has made me think about it.

[Lunk1]

Thanks, it has made me think about it.

All we can ask. Do some searching around in here...there is alot of info on using steroids with high body fat and the sides that accompany that.

[Sworder]

Plasma Free and Non-Sex-Hormone-Binding-Globulin Bound Testosterone Are Decreased in Obese Men in Proportion to Their Degree of Obesity
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/71/4/929.short
Abstract
It is known that plasma total testosterone (T) is decreased in obese men in proportion to the degree of obesity, but similar information is not available for plasma free T and non-sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-bound T. We measured the 24-h mean plasma total T in 48 healthy (non-weightstable men, aged 18–55 yr, with body mass indexes (BMI) ranging from 21–95 kg/m2. Free T and non-SHBG-bound T were calculated using the measured total T, the concentrations of albumin and SHBG, and the association constants of T to albumin and SHBG. Total body fat content was measured by deuterium-water isotope dilution. Findings were as follows. 1) BMI was very highly correlated with total body fat content (r = 0.96; P < 0.001); thus, the degree of obesity can be calculated just as appropriately from simple height and weight measurements as from measurements of total body fat content. 2) Total, non-SHBG-bound, and free T were all highly correlated inversely with BMI; for total T, r = −0.727, P < 0.01; for non- SHBG-bound T, r = 0.677, P < 0.01; and for free T, r = −0.653, P < 0.01. Thus, free T and non-SHBG-bound T are decreased in obese men in proportion to the degree of obesity, just as is the case for total T; percentagewise, the decrease was the same for all 3 parameters.

[warmouth]

I would say that once your diet is in check and you start to drop the weight, then consider. Make sure you educate on here and ask all the questions you have. Always better to be safe than sorry. I have heard Austinie say, and I would have to agree, winny is better left for a lower body fat, 15% or less. Test only for a first cycle, AI and proper PCT. Good luck!

[warmouth]

Plasma Free and Non-Sex-Hormone-Binding-Globulin Bound Testosterone Are Decreased in Obese Men in Proportion to Their Degree of Obesity
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/71/4/929.short
Abstract
It is known that plasma total testosterone (T) is decreased in obese men in proportion to the degree of obesity, but similar information is not available for plasma free T and non-sex-hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)-bound T. We measured the 24-h mean plasma total T in 48 healthy (non-weightstable men, aged 18–55 yr, with body mass indexes (BMI) ranging from 21–95 kg/m2. Free T and non-SHBG-bound T were calculated using the measured total T, the concentrations of albumin and SHBG, and the association constants of T to albumin and SHBG. Total body fat content was measured by deuterium-water isotope dilution. Findings were as follows. 1) BMI was very highly correlated with total body fat content (r = 0.96; P < 0.001); thus, the degree of obesity can be calculated just as appropriately from simple height and weight measurements as from measurements of total body fat content. 2) Total, non-SHBG-bound, and free T were all highly correlated inversely with BMI; for total T, r = −0.727, P < 0.01; for non- SHBG-bound T, r = 0.677, P < 0.01; and for free T, r = −0.653, P < 0.01. Thus, free T and non-SHBG-bound T are decreased in obese men in proportion to the degree of obesity, just as is the case for total T; percentagewise, the decrease was the same for all 3 parameters.

IN LAYMANS TERMS!!! Lol. Are you saying, that based on this article, that test can be used saftely in slightly over weight men because of the probability they have lowered testosterone? It would make sense that alot of weight gain can be attributed to lower testosterone. I know I see alot of fat guys over 30 and I know that testosterone production slows at approximately that time. I guess that why people tend to gain weight and get fatter with age. I have always been told, "just wait, all that eating will catch up to you one day". I would imagine this has something to do with Low T. I feel stupid that I didnt correlate the 2 together.

[warmouth]

All we can ask. Do some searching around in here...there is alot of info on using steroids with high body fat and the sides that accompany that.

Oh he will! Ill see to that...

[austinite]

IN LAYMANS TERMS!!! Lol. Are you saying, that based on this article, that test can be used saftely in slightly over weight men because of the probability they have lowered testosterone? It would make sense that alot of weight gain can be attributed to lower testosterone. I know I see alot of fat guys over 30 and I know that testosterone production slows at approximately that time. I guess that why people tend to gain weight and get fatter with age. I have always been told, "just wait, all that eating will catch up to you one day". I would imagine this has something to do with Low T. I feel stupid that I didnt correlate the 2 together.

^ well, overweight men are on TRT just like anyone else. So yes, they would benefit from TRT doses. Cycling however, is a whole other category and the negatives would far outweigh the benefit.

[juicyd2012]

I have read studies that being overweight lowers the testosterone that your body produces. I have actually read that some docs are giving it for weight loss.

[austinite]

I have read studies that being overweight lowers the testosterone that your body produces. I have actually read that some docs are giving it for weight loss.

Yes, it's posted above

[warmouth]

^ well, overweight men are on TRT just like anyone else. So yes, they would benefit from TRT doses. Cycling however, is a whole other category and the negatives would far outweigh the benefit.

I absolutely agree. Nothing you say I will disagree with, with the exception of cardio..........lol. Just kidding. I have been doing it, but only because you told me I needed too.

[Sworder]

^ well, overweight men are on TRT just like anyone else. So yes, they would benefit from TRT doses. Cycling however, is a whole other category and the negatives would far outweigh the benefit.

Yes, more testosterone that is administered the more goes to "waste", I think it actually becomes subject to aromatase. I have yet to find references for this tho... Which would be even worse having high estrogen and high BF because it could be hard to tell when gynecomastia starts developing.

[Sworder]

IN LAYMANS TERMS!!! Lol. Are you saying, that based on this article, that test can be used saftely in slightly over weight men because of the probability they have lowered testosterone? It would make sense that alot of weight gain can be attributed to lower testosterone. I know I see alot of fat guys over 30 and I know that testosterone production slows at approximately that time. I guess that why people tend to gain weight and get fatter with age. I have always been told, "just wait, all that eating will catch up to you one day". I would imagine this has something to do with Low T. I feel stupid that I didnt correlate the 2 together.

Yes, I think it is an interesting study because it stimulates the thought process you have. What comes first as a male ages? low testosterone -> high body fat elevating estrogen and then coming back on negative feedback to suppress testosterone further.

If a obese person were to use AAS I would suggest a non-aromatase steroid . Such as winny, I think he would have great results. Winny is famous for getting you that dry look which is nice but not noticable when you have a lot of body fat. All androgens will increase your fat burning(lipolysis) regardless if it is known as a "bulk" or "cutter". You can cut or bulk on anything it will be the diet that is the decider. Winny only not recommended because of the lack of testosterone. BUT, and this is personal speculation is that since he has enough estrogen in his body due to all his body fat his libido won't suffer from it. I don't believe in the testosterone concept, it's not that special. It's an androgen that is subject to aromatase. Lets say a persons next cycle would be Deca /Tren /Mast I don't think libido would be an issue! This is theory though and absolutely not recommended. It's quite insane to be honest... No not really if you really understand the mechanics of the AR. Certain steroids will act on the same exact receptors testosterone acts on for libido, there is no testosterone specific libido receptor. You are going to need some aromatase and that can be given from deca. Anyway it's just personal thoughts and theories pay it no mind

[warmouth]

So, maybe low dosing for overweight men, that is, if BW shows low T? Possible TRT doses prescribed by a liscensed physician I would assume. But lets just say an overweight person decides to cycle. Would yall think it would be better for them to start out with a basic 200mgs Test C pinning a week, or possibly 2- 100mgs shots per week? Basically just to get the positive effects of testosterone in order to help them shed extra fat along with proper diet and excercise. I would think that low dosing like this would possible benefit a larger person and help speed up the "cutting" process. Then after their desired weight is reached and BW is taken, an actual cycle could be recommended based on time off and BW results? I only ask these questions to help, in case the OP wants to ask or know.

[austinite]

I absolutely agree. Nothing you say I will disagree with, with the exception of cardio..........lol. Just kidding. I have been doing it, but only because you told me I needed too.

Run Warmouth, run!

[austinite]

Yeah, always get bloodwork. Self treatment with no panels is just silly.

[Sworder]

I would lose the weight first. Gonna need to learn the basics sooner or later. Being in a hurry won't help much!

[warmouth]

Yes, I think it is an interesting study because it stimulates the thought process you have. What comes first as a male ages? low testosterone -> high body fat elevating estrogen and then coming back on negative feedback to suppress testosterone further.

If a obese person were to use AAS I would suggest a non-aromatase steroid . Such as winny, I think he would have great results. Winny is famous for getting you that dry look which is nice but not noticable when you have a lot of body fat. All androgens will increase your fat burning(lipolysis) regardless if it is known as a "bulk" or "cutter". You can cut or bulk on anything it will be the diet that is the decider. Winny only not recommended because of the lack of testosterone. BUT, and this is personal speculation is that since he has enough estrogen in his body due to all his body fat his libido won't suffer from it. I don't believe in the testosterone concept, it's not that special. It's an androgen that is subject to aromatase. Lets say a persons next cycle would be Deca /Tren /Mast I don't think libido would be an issue! This is theory though and absolutely not recommended. It's quite insane to be honest... No not really if you really understand the mechanics of the AR. Certain steroids will act on the same exact receptors testosterone acts on for libido, there is no testosterone specific libido receptor. You are going to need some aromatase and that can be given from deca. Anyway it's just personal thoughts and theories pay it no mind

Ok cool. So in this type of situation, winny only could possibly be ran alone. I see you dont recommend it, but due to the already speculated high estrogen levels, the non-aromatizing winstrol cold possibly benefit by not converting into more estrogen? If this were the case, could you see him running a low dose of test, say 125mgs weekly and winstrol? I am not, and I know you are not recomending this, but this is for further learning for the OP and myself. I could see slight supression from the winstrol, but him being 31, I would say he is somewhat supressed now, especially being that he is over-weight and estrogen levels could be rather high. I think BW should be in his future and then go from there. A rock solid diet and proper exercise to lose any fat is definitely going to be the best and most sustainable means of keeping the weight off.

[warmouth]

Run Warmouth, run!

Oh I am.....eh. And it is not fun. But the heart loves it. And I do believe the treadmill and my heart are in talks about starting a joint facebook account

[austinite]

Oh I am.....eh. And it is not fun. But the heart loves it. And I do believe the treadmill and my heart are in talks about starting a joint facebook account

lol. Grand theft joke!

[warmouth]

ha ha ha!

[Sworder]

Ok cool. So in this type of situation, winny only could possibly be ran alone. I see you dont recommend it, but due to the already speculated high estrogen levels, the non-aromatizing winstrol cold possibly benefit by not converting into more estrogen? If this were the case, could you see him running a low dose of test, say 125mgs weekly and winstrol? I am not, and I know you are not recomending this, but this is for further learning for the OP and myself. I could see slight supression from the winstrol, but him being 31, I would say he is somewhat supressed now, especially being that he is over-weight and estrogen levels could be rather high. I think BW should be in his future and then go from there. A rock solid diet and proper exercise to lose any fat is definitely going to be the best and most sustainable means of keeping the weight off.

I was just brainfarting m8, I don't feel comfortable recommending any AAS to an obese person nor to a person who doesn't go to the gym except for when he is on cycle. Lose the weight first!

[Sworder]

Estrogen is highly suppressive a lot more than winny. Bloodwork and possibly just an AI might help get his testosterone levels back to normal. No AAS needed

[warmouth]

I was just brainfarting m8, I don't feel comfortable recommending any AAS to an obese person nor to a person who doesn't go to the gym except for when he is on cycle. Lose the weight first!

I understand that. I stated that I knew you didnt recommend anything you stated. It was just hypothetical, which I relayed to the OP, so were good there. I was just getting info to log for myself. I thought it was a good read and would like to go deeper into it. I know the OP is busting his butt off to get his weight down and such. He is just getting info that I cannot give, and understand that you are not comfortable giving advice in a situation you are in the dark about. But I was wanting to dig more into the non-aromatizing compounds and thier use other than for performance enhancing. It is just a neat subject, and I have learned quite a bit from this little thread. I love learning!

[Sworder]

The thing is that estrogen doesn't drop over night. If you estrogen is elevated it will take some time for it to drop, starting winny only wouldn't shut the HPTA down overnight either. The curve for LH/FSH would take a couple weeks to drop, the low testosterone production he has will drop as well. But for general well-being you need some estrogen, you can't run a cycle with no testosterone or other aromatase compound.

The best course of action is to get bloodwork done, and then look at your estrogen levels and possible starting an AI to take away the estrogen induced suppression. Low testosterone will lead to higher fat storage too. Less androgens, less lipolysis.

[marcus300]

Fat cell receptors have more of an affinity to aromatising so if you have more fat cells than you have more of a chance to increased estrogen related sides. Usually poor diet is related to higher bf % so this needs addressing first before steroids are used, especially if it increases side effects .I would stop the cycle go into pct and once youn have recovered start addressing your diet and increasing your cardio and drop you bf right down.

[warmouth]

This has been very helpful and very educational. Overall, I learned alot and it has gotten me thinking and I will continue to research. Thanks alot guys!

[warmouth]

Fat cell receptors have more of an affinity to aromatising so if you have more fat cells than you have more of a chance to increased estrogen related sides. Usually poor diet is related to higher bf % so this needs addressing first before steroids are used, especially if it increases side effects .I would stop the cycle go into pct and once youn have recovered start addressing your diet and increasing your cardio and drop you bf right down.

Alright! So this should put the nail in the coffin, so to speak. This has been great! Alot of great info I got to log for my personal journal! Lets say the OP has been on cycle for 7 of a proposed 10 weeks, should he still stop now, or finish and then work out the diet and get BW done? I am only asking for his benefit here. Whatever you say Marcus is exactly what will be done.

[Lunk1]

Alright! So this should put the nail in the coffin, so to speak. This has been great! Alot of great info I got to log for my personal journal! Lets say the OP has been on cycle for 7 of a proposed 10 weeks, should he still stop now, or finish and then work out the diet and get BW done? I am only asking for his benefit here. Whatever you say Marcus is exactly what will be done.

Are you and the OP 1 person with multi personalities??? Like Sybal or INK lol

[fit2bOld]

Are you and the OP 1 person with multi personalities??? Like Sybal or INK lol

Yeah that has me a bit confused?

[warmouth]

Ha ha no. I personally know him and told him to come here for the best advice possible! I did a good thig, no?

[JohnnyVegas]

Now that all the AAS talk seems to be done...I have 2000 and 1800 calorie cutting diets that worked for me. Let me know if you are willing to eat the same five foods every day.

[warmouth]

Now that all the AAS talk seems to be done...I have 2000 and 1800 calorie cutting diets that worked for me. Let me know if you are willing to eat the same five foods every day.

Johnny, he has been reading up in the nutrition section. Would it be ok if he got a good diet nailed down from you? I know he is having a problem eating the foods he has been eating. Maybe he could post in the nutrition section until he gets to 50 posts?

[fit2bOld]

You did good Warmouth! Keep pulling for the guy... The world needs more of this people helping out people...

[Lunk1]

You did good Warmouth! Keep pulling for the guy... The world needs more of this people helping out people...

Be nuts if ppl just helped each other...couldn't have that

[JohnnyVegas]

Johnny, he has been reading up in the nutrition section. Would it be ok if he got a good diet nailed down from you? I know he is having a problem eating the foods he has been eating. Maybe he could post in the nutrition section until he gets to 50 posts?

I am on my phone so I don't won't be able to post the diet until tomorrow. I will try to remember.

[warmouth]

You did good Warmouth! Keep pulling for the guy... The world needs more of this people helping out people...

Thankg you Fit2b! I am trying my best without getting out of line. I figure this is THE BEST place for people to learn. It sure was for me, thats for sure!

[court628]

Look I am not doctor but here is one thing I have learned.......everyone reacts different when they put different things into their body. Maybe I was just lucky but I was 6' and weighed 310lbs when I decided it was time to do something about it. I started with a trainer who got my diet in check and I ate clean 100% of the time and spend 1.5 hours a day at the gym 6 days a week. I started at 46% body fat. Three weeks after I started when I felt I was for sure going to stick with this I started a cycle of 300 test e and 400 tren e. 14 weeks later I am 262lbs at 21% body fat and still going. The only sides I had were they typical tren sides like sleeping and sweat issues. Other than that nothing. I am continually monitored by my doctor and to this point everything has been cool. So is it way riskier to to do being overweight......I have no doubt it is but with a doctor monitoring me I thought it was worth trying. Everyone is different and this has worked great for me.