Calling on those who have run NPP ................. Please Critique

**_Romeo_** · 10-25-2012, 08:52 AM

Your Input is appreciate.

Goal: Lean Bulk
Stats: 32 years old, 5'7, 198, 14% BF, lifting for more than 10 years.

Proposed Cycle:
Week 1-10 test Prop at 125 EOD
Week 1-9 NPP at 125 EOD
Week 4-10 Var at 75mg ED

Aromasin at 12.5mg ED
Caber at .5mg E3D
HCG 250iu Twice a week throughout Cycle

PCT (3rd day after last shot of prop)
Week 1-4 clomid 100/100/50/50
week 3-4 Nolva 20/20

Rotating 3 injection sites: Glutes, Quads, Delts
pins used: 18g to draw, 23g 1" , 25g 1"

Feel free to Critique... thank you.

**songdog** · 10-25-2012, 09:04 AM

Npp is a good compound the only thing I dont like about it is it kills my libdo.Your cycle looks Bro good luck.

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 09:13 AM

Well posted cycle! Only thing I would change is to up the test to create at least a 3:2 ratio test to NPP... It's a 19nor at the end of the day and running the test higher is my rule of thumb and 9/10 times prevents those libido issues.

**_Romeo_** · 10-25-2012, 09:30 AM

thank you guys... how does this look ?

weeks 1-12 Prop at 150 EOD
weeks 1-10 NPP at 100/125mg EOD
Last 6 weeks Var at 75mg

better ?

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 09:42 AM

Romeo, I don't know your experience and targeted dosing range etc. For me example those doses are on the VERY low end for a Prop + NPP cycle! You however seem to have sound research from your first post so I presume the dosing range you playing in is what you feel comfortable with. Give the 100mg NPP and 150mg prop a go and try hit every second day! The more stable you can keep the levels of those substances in your blood the better especially on a blitz

one of my favorite cycles, and you pretty much nailed the protocol!

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 09:52 AM

My question is are both of these necessary Aromasin at 12.5mg ED
Caber at .5mg E3D?

Or have the caber on hand in case of prolactin issues.

I ask because I start NPP for the first time today.

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 10:11 AM

Necessary? Essential? Personal choice... When you see the benefits of caber on hand vs running on cycle especially with a 19nor and weigh up your decision that's all that it comes down to. 12.5mg arom will prevent prolactin sides with enough est suppression from person to person depends if you prone or not too low to guarantee IMO. I will always run caber on Tren for example and not even consider prolactin sides because I have never got them. I run it because of beneficial effects which I enjoy from sex drive to well being to the piece of mind of prolactin "protection".

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by mmgearworks

Necessary? Essential? Personal choice... When you see the benefits of caber on hand vs running on cycle especially with a 19nor and weigh up your decision that's all that it comes down to. 12.5mg arom will prevent prolactin sides with enough est suppression from person to person depends if you prone or not too low to guarantee IMO. I will always run caber on Tren for example and not even consider prolactin sides because I have never got them. I run it because of beneficial effects which I enjoy from sex drive to well being to the piece of mind of prolactin "protection".

I ask because I have run 900 mgs of tren a w/ 500 mgs test on more than a few occasions with just liquidex. and no issues. I know NPP and tren are both nor19 but as said have no experience with NPP. And just like covering my bases. Do research lets say. Lol

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 10:33 AM

Ha ha

honestly bro it's personal from the science of the compounds and personal bloods and even clients bloods I gotta call the chances of prolactin sides on Tren at a noticeably higher level than NPP if that helps your decision.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by mmgearworks

Ha ha

honestly bro it's personal from the science of the compounds and personal bloods and even clients bloods I gotta call the chances of prolactin sides on Tren at a noticeably higher level than NPP if that helps your decision.

It does
Thanks

Didn't mean to hijack thread.

**_Romeo_** · 10-25-2012, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Didn't mean to hijack thread.

Really ?!!! Now you are telling me this ?!! ... just messing with you man.lol it's all good. Got a good few points from your posts

AT mmgearworks... thanks for the help. I did do a lot of research. this is my 2nd cycle. first being 16 weeks on Test E at 500 a week (no sides other than Test Flu, and being soooo horny

). Q: would it be a good idea to increase dosage during cycle, say Test at 150mg and NPP at 150-200 EOD ?

**songdog** · 10-25-2012, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

It does
Thanks

Didn't mean to hijack thread.

I ran 700 tren 200 test never had a problem with just Adex.Now with Npp 300mg test 500 Adex Caber no libdo.Go figure.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

I ran 700 tren 200 test never had a problem with just Adex.Now with Npp 300mg test 500 Adex Caber no libdo.Go figure.

Possibly from the caber?

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 12:11 PM

Curious on your pct why not
Novla 40/20/20/20
Clomid 100/50/50/50

Why no novla for the first two weeks?

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by songdog

I ran 700 tren 200 test never had a problem with just Adex.Now with Npp 300mg test 500 Adex Caber no libdo.Go figure.

Same here also more shut down on the nandrolone , strange science to these goodies ha ha... Prolactin though Tren has more complaints and higher scores in the bloods/feedback I've seen comparing to nandrolone.

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Possibly from the caber?

Why would you say the Caber?

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by mmgearworks

Why would you say the Caber?

Because that is the only substance that was different. Test and a nor19. Were used both times. One with dex the other with caber.
I do know caber is used for increasing libido and works for over 70% of patients.
Hypothesis based on not much.
Your thoughts?

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Because that is the only substance that was different. Test and a nor19. Were used both times. One with dex the other with caber.
I do know caber is used for increasing libido and works for over 70% of patients.
Hypothesis based on not much.
Your thoughts?

Fair enough hypothesis and your 70% patient libido increase sounds about right from the studies I have seen. However have never seen a single report relating to diminished or bad effects on the libido from the caber nor have I experienced it myself or with clients.

It's odd classing these families 19nor is a 19nor...DHT is a DHT etc don't you think? Nice for generalization but not specifics. I do it all the time. And sometimes when noobs (not to say you are, i know you not, i see where you're hypothesis is coming from) get on the family thinking chain they immediately class a steroid within a family with various effects off the bat... You cant do that and you cant compare Tren to Deca so straight forwardly simply because they 19nors, it runs a lot deeper than that. As a base on the most concerning sides I call libido worse on nandrolone and prolactin worse on Tren.

**Capebuffalo** · 10-25-2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by mmgearworks

Fair enough hypothesis and your 70% patient libido increase sounds about right from the studies I have seen. However have never seen a single report relating to diminished or bad effects on the libido from the caber nor have I experienced it myself or with clients.

It's odd classing these families 19nor is a 19nor...DHT is a DHT etc don't you think? Nice for generalization but not specifics. I do it all the time. And sometimes when noobs (not to say you are, i know you not, i see where you're hypothesis is coming from) get on the family thinking chain they immediately class a steroid within a family with various effects off the bat... You cant do that and you cant compare Tren to Deca so straight forwardly simply because they 19nors, it runs a lot deeper than that. As a base on the most concerning sides I call libido worse on nandrolone and prolactin worse on Tren.

I understand what you are saying. I was being very basic and general. That is also the reason I ALWAYS run more test than deca but always run more tren than test.
With liquidex. Have never had to go higher than .5 mg eod. And knock on wood never had libido issues either way or prolactin.

I would like to hear your thoughts on running tren a and npp together with test.

**mmgearworks** · 10-25-2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

I understand what you are saying. I was being very basic and general. That is also the reason I ALWAYS run more test than deca but always run more tren than test.
With liquidex. Have never had to go higher than .5 mg eod. And knock on wood never had libido issues either way or prolactin.

I would like to hear your thoughts on running tren a and npp together with test.

Well you're a lucky guy... Higher Tren than test dose and zero libido hit? When iam on a 19nor (generalizing again) my test is always double! My little "rule of thumb" from trial and error + feedback.
Seems to cancel out all libido sides completely + I never run less than 1g of test when on cycle as a base so this ratio is easy for me.
Blitz's and contest prep etc my test dose will be lower on occasions but its not my prime or my basal construction.

Regards to your 2 19nors in 1 cycle those 2 fast esters in particular I would never suggest it and guys have done it and been dealt a solid libido blow even with 2:1 test ratio over both 19nors! But hey? Give it a go if you wish, I would never, but the esters clear fast and you can drop one if you run into a Deca dick state and even double test isn't setting you straight. Drop one and continue and you'll be firing again when the ester tapers.
What would your reasoning be for those 2 compounds together is the real question

**_Romeo_** · 10-26-2012, 07:25 AM

Adjustment:

weeks 1-12 Prop at 150mg eod
Weeks 1-10 NPP at 125mg eod
Last 6 weeks Var at 75mg ED.

How does that look?

**austinite** · 10-26-2012, 07:32 AM

I'd just run this entire cycle for 10 weeks max. Last 5 with var.

**_Romeo_** · 10-27-2012, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

I'd just run this entire cycle for 10 weeks max. Last 5 with var.

this is wanted to do initially... but i kept getting feedback as to run it for 12 weeks... any reason why you would run it for 10 weeks not 12 ?

**austinite** · 10-27-2012, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by _Romeo_

this is wanted to do initially... but i kept getting feedback as to run it for 12 weeks... any reason why you would run it for 10 weeks not 12 ?

If you were using a long ester, I'd go 12, but you're not. You can even go with 8 weeks. Short esters will kick in much faster, and your effects will begin much sooner. You can accomplish what you want on a short ester with 8 weeks, where a longer ester would take 12 weeks to do the same. 12 is overkill for short esters.

**_Romeo_** · 10-27-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

If you were using a long ester, I'd go 12, but you're not. You can even go with 8 weeks. Short esters will kick in much faster, and your effects will begin much sooner. You can accomplish what you want on a short ester with 8 weeks, where a longer ester would take 12 weeks to do the same. 12 is overkill for short esters.

makes sense... yet the number of people that tell me to go 12 weeks is ridiculous... i guess i am going for it and make adjustments along the way...also you mentioned var for 5 weeks? that's a new one, usually i get the "at least 6 weeks on Var" ..some said 8 weeks.