Is this bullsh*t or what???

**Cronos** · 11-01-2012, 03:06 PM

So I have a serious question for anyone else with lots of gym experience please feel free to chime in. This has been bugging me for the last couple days. I work at a very large gym chain across north america, and at my location I recently met a couple individuals who have successfully (no intent of their own) made me feel pretty low about myself.

Person A: 42 year old male, just placed in the top 4 in one of the worlds biggest "natural" bodybuilding shows. 5'10, 190 SHREDDED. I mean 11 different veins just in his bi's and feathering in his back shredded. GREAT physique, you get it. I got to know this guy over the last while and we get on the topic of juice. Swears up and down he's all natural, and NEVER even touched a steroid . Now, I'm pretty open and honest with my gym buddies after we get to know each other for a while, I mean we're all in this together so no point in juicing and everybody know it, and then me saying "uh, no, no way man, never touched it". when asked by one of my seasoned gym buddies. You just look like an idiot to me. On top of being in this shape, the guy pushes 315 on the bench at his weight and condition for reps! He's 42!

Person B: a 25 year old male I befriended who just happens to have that "perfect" structure for bodybuilding. Really tiny joints, swollen big round muscle bellies EVERYWHERE (wtf), around 8% bf, 5'10 194. On top of that, he's freakishly strong! 5 plate deads for 10! 4 plate squats for several sets of 8-10 AT THE END OF HIS LEG WORKOUT! after leg extensions, after leg press etc. 4 plate bench for 3. Again, swears on his mother's grave he's on NOTHING. On top of that, he tells me he only consumes 100g of carbs per day and 30g fats from fish oils, about 250g protein. Can he really look that swolen, be that freakishly strong at that weight with those tiny joints on those few carbs and calories and be CLEAN?!?

I sincerely hope for some honest answers and opinions here please, because I'm honest about what I'm on, the weights I move etc. and I don't even compare to these guys. To give you an idea of myself, I turn A LOT of heads my self (don't mean to brag, just trying to give some contrast here) and I'm only 180 at 5'7 about 8% bf. But I'm on stuff, and I admit and I'm no where near these 2 individuals. I've got a sloppy 335 bench AT BEST, 513 dead for 1, and 407 squat for 1. I've just kinda slipped into a bit of a depression about all this, I know it may sound silly. So lets hear your honest opinions. I mean, are any of you here like these 2 guys? I'm no idiot, I've seen a lot of people like these guys, and they were all on stuff. So how is it possible for them to achieve this "naturally" but not 10'000 others, you know? I call bs

Thanks

**Dpyle** · 11-01-2012, 03:27 PM

These guys could very well be all natural. I felt the same way when I realized I need about 3600 cals per day to put on weight at 5'6" and 160lbs. That's about 1000 cals more than what the standard equations say I should need to put on size. It sucks but sadly that's the cruel world of genetics. Some have it and some have to work much harder for it.

**OnTheSauce** · 11-01-2012, 04:27 PM

another thing to question is if he has taken any ph's or oral only cycle. i have people tell me they are natural just because they havent used a needle. they dont realize superdrol and dbol cycles count as aas....

**ppwc1985** · 11-01-2012, 05:01 PM

Some guys are just naturally strong, as far as being 42, I'm 45 and a lot stronger than I used to be at 25. I think you get stronger as you age up to a point. Another point is, you can be that way if you have good genetics. My room mate in the military was 5'6" maybe 150 wet, I seen him bench 315 line it was nothing beating out guys twice his size. And IMO you can be like that, but it takes dedication and I'm talking 25 hrs a day dedication to do it naturally but I think it can be done. When I was younger I put on 30 lbs in 4 months doing two cycles of a program called cybergenics. 6 day a week workout consisting of giants sets to include forced reps, negatives and all that. Eating like 6000 cals a day. It can be done but I lived it, it would be hard to keep that up 365 days every year. IMO most ppl who turn to gear me included in this just don't want to wait, Ed human we want it now.

**ShredMN** · 11-01-2012, 05:51 PM

They could be natural, but they could also very well be using steroids . Nobody likes admitting to using gear because of the stigma behind it, and it makes them feel better if they try to convice others they did it by themselves. Don't get too down on yourself though, we (fitness/bodybuilder enthusiasts) don't strive to compete against others in the gym, we strive to compete against ourselves.

**fit2bOld** · 11-01-2012, 06:06 PM

I can believe it. There are people that just have the genetics, others are stupid strong and others work their a$$es off. that type of physique requires total dedication regardless of the use of drugs.

**Chx beach 79** · 11-01-2012, 06:08 PM

They could be on TRT and they think that is natural. Most doctors prescribe about 4X the natural level of test for pretty much anyone that says they are tired sometimes. Not that I"m complaining but since I started my TRT people have always accused my of being on steroids . I guess I am for life, just under a much closer eye. But I never considered it steroids because my body should have been producing it anyway just wasn't producing enough.

Just my 2 cents.

**Metalject** · 11-01-2012, 07:31 PM

Most guys like you're talking about are not being honest. A lot of people are ashamed to admit they've ever used steroids . No surprise, regardless of how responsible you are in your use according to a message board, as far as most people are concerned you've got a problem and should be embarrassed about it. Other guys are just scared to admit it because of a fear of getting into trouble. While they might very well be a little over protective of the issue, it's really not a dumb move when you think about it.

All that said, I have known a couple guys in my lifetime who had genetics that produced a physique and strength far beyond your average gear head and they were natural. I know they were natural for fact. Pro level physiques? Of course not, but far beyond the average man. These types of people are extremely rare.

The average man who stands at 5'10" and 200+lbs and is below 8% BF and can generally maintain it is not normal if steroids are not being used IMO. Possible? Yes, but not often.

**Mrcivil** · 11-01-2012, 07:48 PM

I can only comment on the strength side of things I have known and trained with a lot of natural powerlifters and some on gear and have seen some absolutely freaky strong people one guy was raw squatting 315 kg at 21 years old was benching 167 kg in his teens and a few other guys that used to train where I trained that I knew were very similar squatting 260kg for multiple sets of reps so strength sometimes I can buy they are natural but guys who sit at that low a bf% with crazy definition and still move a lot weight I call bullshit

**OnTheSauce** · 11-01-2012, 08:13 PM

plus you know slin and hgh guys still compete in natural bodybuilding lol. claim natty

**freddy1418** · 11-01-2012, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by ShredMN

They could be natural, but they could also very well be using steroids. Nobody likes admitting to using gear because of the stigma behind it, and it makes them feel better if they try to convice others they did it by themselves. Don't get too down on yourself though, we (fitness/bodybuilder enthusiasts) don't strive to compete against others in the gym, we strive to compete against ourselves.

X2 very true

**stpete** · 11-01-2012, 08:57 PM

Some people are just gifted. I have a few friends that eat like shit and still strong as hell. Stronger than me actually. I get so pissed that one of my friends can eat krispy kreme doughnuts prior to a workout and kill me. Just devastates me. But, nothing you can do about it. I wish i had it that good.

**diabolicsoul** · 11-01-2012, 08:59 PM

Some people can get very strong naturally.

I was watching old videos. one of the guys were 17-18. squatting 700. benching 315-405 for reps. Natty.

Some people just have the genetics.

**Cronos** · 11-02-2012, 10:45 AM

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. As someone said above, I personally call bs not because they're sub 8% bf, or the fact that they are freakishly strong at that weight with eating those few cals a day, or their overall gifted proportions, I call BS because they have ALL of those things combined while still claiming "clean" you know?

**evander87** · 11-02-2012, 11:21 AM

Check out number 77 the Tight End for Ohio State University. He's listed at 6' 8" 310lbs at 8% bodyfat. I'm not the guy so I don't have any idea if he's natty or not, but I do know the NCAA tests for it. I want to believe he's a genetic freak.