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    Difference in dosing of long and short esters

    I'm a little confused about how the results can be similar between a cycle of test prop and test e, as an example. I understand that the short ester has a shorter cycle and kicks in faster, but the mgs of test are so dramaticly different that it doesn't make sense to me that the results would be similar.

    As I understand it, a test prop cycle would be 8-10 weeks. At 100mg eod, that would total 300mg one week and 400mg the other for a total of 2800mg-3500mg. A test e cycle of 250mg twice per week for 12 weeks would be a total of 6000mg. Maybe these numbers are meaningless, but it's such a large difference that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how the results can be similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lestat85 View Post
    I'm a little confused about how the results can be similar between a cycle of test prop and test e, as an example. I understand that the short ester has a shorter cycle and kicks in faster, but the mgs of test are so dramaticly different that it doesn't make sense to me that the results would be similar.

    As I understand it, a test prop cycle would be 8-10 weeks. At 100mg eod, that would total 300mg one week and 400mg the other for a total of 2800mg-3500mg. A test e cycle of 250mg twice per week for 12 weeks would be a total of 6000mg. Maybe these numbers are meaningless, but it's such a large difference that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how the results can be similar.
    Nobody said 100mg is the rule! When doing EOD injections just multiply by 3.5 and that is your average across the board. If you are interested in 500mg EW then do 500mg EW. Does not matter if it's prop or E. If you multiply 150mg X 3.5 it's 525mg EW. Close enough....

    I understand the confusion and have also seen where some end up rec. lower doses for some reason when discussing prop. 300-500 is a good starter no matter which ester you choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    Nobody said 100mg is the rule! When doing EOD injections just multiply by 3.5 and that is your average across the board. If you are interested in 500mg EW then do 500mg EW. Does not matter if it's prop or E. If you multiply 150mg X 3.5 it's 525mg EW. Close enough....

    I understand the confusion and have also seen where some end up rec. lower doses for some reason when discussing prop. 300-500 is a good starter no matter which ester you choose.
    It sounds like the 100mg eod recomendation is more for keeping the math simple, than it is that less is required. Am I understanding you correctly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lestat85 View Post
    It sounds like the 100mg eod recomendation is more for keeping the math simple, than it is that less is required. Am I understanding you correctly?
    150mg seems like simple math too lol.

    I think for most its a matter of CC's consideration. Most test E is 250mg/ML so 2 equal doses of 1 CC is 500mg EW
    While most prop is 100mg/ML so 1 CC X 3.5 is 350mg EW

    I still prefer 500mg o (or close to it) as a starting point, but thats my preference and some may say 300mg or others may say 400mg!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    150mg seems like simple math too lol.

    I think for most its a matter of CC's consideration. Most test E is 250mg/ML so 2 equal doses of 1 CC is 500mg EW
    While most prop is 100mg/ML so 1 CC X 3.5 is 350mg EW

    I still prefer 500mg o (or close to it) as a starting point, but thats my preference and some may say 300mg or others may say 400mg!
    Math has never really been a problem for me, just seemed from your post that it must be the recommendation because its simplest to say 1 cc (100mg), rather than explain the math. I've seen some guys get rather confused on what seemed, to me, to be very simple math.

    I'm coming up to the end of my first cycle (1.5 weeks left) of 500mg/week test e and have been starting to look at what to do for my next cycle. I'll be trying to get everything ready well in advance, as I won't be doing another until March or April at the earliest. I don't like to leave things like this till the last minute, never know what will go wrong and I prefer having time to deal with any problems, so everything can go smoothly.

    A lot of people seem to love prop and I've been reading that there is less water retention. I just didn't understand why the dose was recomended so much lower and wanted to make sure that i understood before making my decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lestat85 View Post
    Math has never really been a problem for me, just seemed from your post that it must be the recommendation because its simplest to say 1 cc (100mg), rather than explain the math. I've seen some guys get rather confused on what seemed, to me, to be very simple math.

    I'm coming up to the end of my first cycle (1.5 weeks left) of 500mg/week test e and have been starting to look at what to do for my next cycle. I'll be trying to get everything ready well in advance, as I won't be doing another until March or April at the earliest. I don't like to leave things like this till the last minute, never know what will go wrong and I prefer having time to deal with any problems, so everything can go smoothly.

    A lot of people seem to love prop and I've been reading that there is less water retention. I just didn't understand why the dose was recomended so much lower and wanted to make sure that i understood before making my decision.
    The only TRUE benifit to prop is the "kick in" time and the quicker your on PCT (although you can finish up an E cyclewith prop to acomplish this). Also some will get wrapped up in the ester weights and make an issue that prop is more test gram for gram (not enough to cry about imo).

    Water retention is about diet and proper AI usage...NOT which test you choose. This is more common BS than just about anything (other than prop causes PIP or tren causes cough).

    To me it comes down to timing. If I an trying to het a goal by a certain time and know that cycling may be more difficult (like during summer) then I might use prop but if time is not an issue I like to take it slow and steady with E

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1

    The only TRUE benifit to prop is the "kick in" time and the quicker your on PCT (although you can finish up an E cyclewith prop to acomplish this). Also some will get wrapped up in the ester weights and make an issue that prop is more test gram for gram (not enough to cry about imo).

    Water retention is about diet and proper AI usage...NOT which test you choose. This is more common BS than just about anything (other than prop causes PIP or tren causes cough).

    To me it comes down to timing. If I an trying to het a goal by a certain time and know that cycling may be more difficult (like during summer) then I might use prop but if time is not an issue I like to take it slow and steady with E
    Thanks for the info. It makes a lot more sense to me now.

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    Dont forget that the prop ester takes up less room. In other words the mg rating is for that ester. so 100mg of test p is like 85 mg actual testosterone after the ester is removed, and test E the E ester takes up more of the 100mg leaving more like 68mg of actual testosterone.

    So to make it simple, 1mg of test p is more powerful then 1 mg of test e.

    SO 85mg x 3.5 =297.5mg per week prop, 170mg x 2= 340mg per week ethanate so the difference is only about 40 mg of actual testosterone a week. Im not even sure if the 85 and 68 are the actual numbers but i think they are close. So with that small of a difference over a week factors like diet and sleep and training effect gains more. the cycles at such doses, are basically identical. hope that made sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAAS
    Dont forget that the prop ester takes up less room. In other words the mg rating is for that ester. so 100mg of test p is like 85 mg actual testosterone after the ester is removed, and test E the E ester takes up more of the 100mg leaving more like 68mg of actual testosterone.

    So to make it simple, 1mg of test p is more powerful then 1 mg of test e.

    SO 85mg x 3.5 =297.5mg per week prop, 170mg x 2= 340mg per week ethanate so the difference is only about 40 mg of actual testosterone a week. Im not even sure if the 85 and 68 are the actual numbers but i think they are close. So with that small of a difference over a week factors like diet and sleep and training effect gains more. the cycles at such doses, are basically identical. hope that made sense.
    So if I'm understanding this correctly, 350 mg test p (average per week) is roughly 40 mg less than 500 mg test e? This is actually a lot more actual test from what seems like a much smaller dose. Thank you for this breakdown. I'll have to look into the ester weights a little more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lestat85 View Post
    So if I'm understanding this correctly, 350 mg test p (average per week) is roughly 40 mg less than 500 mg test e? This is actually a lot more actual test from what seems like a much smaller dose. Thank you for this breakdown. I'll have to look into the ester weights a little more.
    No lestat...it's the other wy around. the prop ester is smaller and therefore mg for mg you get more test. You will never notice 30 or 40 mg believe me and if your exteremely concerened...draw a little more.

    My best suggestion. Don't over think it to much. Decide if you have time for a long cycle or if you want to be in and out with a short, decide if you prefer EOD or 2Xweek pins and choose your mg per week. END OF STORY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1

    No lestat...it's the other wy around. the prop ester is smaller and therefore mg for mg you get more test. You will never notice 30 or 40 mg believe me and if your exteremely concerened...draw a little more.

    My best suggestion. Don't over think it to much. Decide if you have time for a long cycle or if you want to be in and out with a short, decide if you prefer EOD or 2Xweek pins and choose your mg per week. END OF STORY!
    It sounds like what DAAS is saying is that the ester weight makes the smaller dose of prop so close in actual test that it is basically the same, even though it seems less. I just want to make sure I completely understand. I tend to over think most things, it's just who I am.

    Your advice has helped a lot. The extra pinning isn't a problem for me. Timing will likely be the deciding factor, as any extra from matching the dose would only be beneficial. From what I understand, it not only kicks in faster, but also clears faster, allowing you to pass a drug test sooner. This is a very appealing aspect.

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    If its a huge concern then the breakdown of 500mg is this;

    Prop=425
    Enth=340

    Difference of 100mg of Test E. So 500mg of Test E is comparable to 400mg of prop.
    Now! Do you now what the difference in the effect of that 100 mg (85 of actual test) would be? NOTHING NOTICABLE!

    I agree...consider your timing and schedule. By the way...when you say dug test, what are you refering to. Very few employment tests are for AAS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1
    If its a huge concern then the breakdown of 500mg is this;

    Prop=425
    Enth=340

    Difference of 100mg of Test E. So 500mg of Test E is comparable to 400mg of prop.
    Now! Do you now what the difference in the effect of that 100 mg (85 of actual test) would be? NOTHING NOTICABLE!

    I agree...consider your timing and schedule. By the way...when you say dug test, what are you refering to. Very few employment tests are for AAS!
    I'm considering trying again for a career with my local police next year. I know they do a drug test, but don't know about AAS. I'll probably play it safe though, as their salary would see my pay more than doubled over 5 years.

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    LE is making AAS testing more common but I know that MOST do not yet as the expense is too great. You can always contact them and ask about there drug testing as it is most likely public knowledge!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1
    LE is making AAS testing more common but I know that MOST do not yet as the expense is too great. You can always contact them and ask about there drug testing as it is most likely public knowledge!
    I think I might look into finding out. I'm in Canada and possession for personal use is legal, so I'm not sure if they can test for it. Just thinking that cautious might be best. $85k/year before OT is worth missing a cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lestat85 View Post
    I think I might look into finding out. I'm in Canada and possession for personal use is legal, so I'm not sure if they can test for it. Just thinking that cautious might be best. $85k/year before OT is worth missing a cycle.
    I have no idea what the cost of living comparison is but for 85K I may never touch it again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1

    I have no idea what the cost of living comparison is but for 85K I may never touch it again!
    $85k is definitely enough to live comfortably on.

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    Best of luck...I think it is a noble proffesion and even a calling for some!

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    Maybe the detection times for your pct drugs are your greater concern, remember to add those to the end of your cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAAS View Post
    Maybe the detection times for your pct drugs are your greater concern, remember to add those to the end of your cycle.
    Do you think drug tests will look for SERMs???

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAAS
    Maybe the detection times for your pct drugs are your greater concern, remember to add those to the end of your cycle.
    Very good point. This is definitely something ill have to look into if I go this route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1

    Do you think drug tests will look for SERMs???
    I'm not even sure if they are allowed to test for AAS at all. If not, I would assume they don't test for SERMs. If they do, I would imagine they would test for at least the most common chemicals associated with AAS use.
    Last edited by lestat85; 11-07-2012 at 03:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunk1 View Post
    Do you think drug tests will look for SERMs???
    well if it is a test only cycle then i dont see how that would show up? because after the cycle his levels will just be low or normal.
    things like AI's and serms would leave a more traceable trial... not sure, I have no experience with drug testing. If he was to take deca or tren or halo or dbol , I think those leave more specific signatures. Again I am not sure. What ever the case may be they will be in his system longer then the test e simply because you wait a week after its done then take them for about a month or so then they have to clear. Again this is one area where I am just speculating. Ask a Vet.

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