Low T, Doctors and Replacement Therapy to steroids. Help Q

**Joe7** · 11-21-2012, 02:48 PM

I have been reading on different websites and forums and so far this one is the one with more serious people that know what there doing.

I started working out 2 years ago after finding out that I had diabetes type 2 and the medicines were not helping me. So now I'm happy to say that Diabetes, Cholesterol, High Blood pressure, Triglycerides and a few other problems are now perfectly in check.

So I lost 54 pounds but I've noticed that even busting my ass working out and dieting I still can't make good muscle gains and loose the last bit of fat. I've done everything. So I went to the doctor and asked him to do a Testosterone test and the result was 320, he says that I'm withing range but the range is between 300 and 800 and for my age the average is 680. So I'm at the low end of the range and doctors don't really help if within the range.

-I'm a bit confused and don't know which way to go. if I should seek one of those clinics for hormone replacement (not covered by my insurance anyway) or to just get into steroids and growth hormone etc?
-Should I start with the pills sold in this site?
-If I start, can you stop and bring test levels back to normal?

I love this new lifestyle and love my family, I have 2 beautiful kids. I really appreciate all the help I can get. If some one could PM me or something I would love to consult with someone with experience. I have been reading a lot but it's very time consuming and very eassy to get confuse and make mistakes.

Stats are,

40 years old
5'8"
205 pounds.
20-23% Bf.

Nutrition: 6 to 7 meals,a day. 2500 cal
Supplement: Anabolic freak (DAA), ZMA, Multi Vitamins,
Workout: 6 days a week mix between weights and cardio. Change routines every 2 to 3 weeks. Mix between Heavy low reps and high reps Low weight etc ..drop sets, super sets ,etc

My goal is to get a little bigger but mostly loose the fat, and it's been impossible.

If anyone is here in Miami please let me know. I love to meet you and may be hang out. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

**38jumper38** · 11-21-2012, 02:56 PM

TRT is an option, if you got the money for, go with it. (in case your insurance don't cover, they got good clinics down in miami, mine is from there)
TRT alone won't solve your problems, you need to start working on your diet and cardio. and a lot of cardio.
Then eventually after some year or two, when all in place, you can rum a cycle. If you cycle now with 20-23% bf, you won't see any results, trt, Diet and cardio will do it for you.

**Peer** · 11-21-2012, 04:02 PM

Welcome

As a doc I would retest with a full testosterone panel along with your a1c, tsh, ltp, bmp in 4 months, especially if you are symptomatic for low testosterone .
It can be tough getting insurance to cover TRT if levels are still in ref range, that does not preclude the option to treat but is more expensive for the patient. Testosterone cyp TRT is around $10/wk cash pay depending on dose and retail pharm.

**Joe7** · 11-22-2012, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Peer

Welcome

As a doc I would retest with a full testosterone panel along with your a1c, tsh, ltp, bmp in 4 months, especially if you are symptomatic for low testosterone .
It can be tough getting insurance to cover TRT if levels are still in ref range, that does not preclude the option to treat but is more expensive for the patient. Testosterone cyp TRT is around $10/wk cash pay depending on dose and retail pharm.

Hey guys Tks for your responses. By the way Happy Thanksgiving !!

My doctor had me tested twice in 4 months, but only tested Testosterone total LC/MS/MS (dont know what it means ) came in at 321 and Free Testosterone came in at 51.4. I wanted to test my Estrogen and cortisol but he is being a little stupid about it because Im at normal levels and he is against replacement says too many side effects etc. I asked him to give me a referral to the endo, so I'm waiting on that.
I have a few Q's:

-SO TRT will be better than steroids or is it almost the same thing? Money wise?

-Should I start with the pills sold in this site? I was thinking on buying the Growth Hormone Stack Any good?

-Once you start TRT you can't stop ? is this this true? What about the steroids can you do a few cycles and then stop After a pct will my sytem produce the same or not?

Sorry for asking so much is just that all this stuff is overwhelming and it's just hitting me so fast. Has me confused.

**EZ E** · 11-22-2012, 10:14 AM

TRT is generally for life so I would exhaust all other options before going down this road. Not to say you can't get off TRT but it will take a good PCT and you may not get back to where you are now. Head to the TRT section and post complete bloodwork there along w/ ranges. FYI, most doctors are idiots when it comes to this so 99% of the battle is finding a good doc.

**Peer** · 11-22-2012, 10:52 AM

Looks like your free test is low, varies by lab
Was the blood draw in the a.m.?
You may need a new doc, I have hundreds on TRT as a primary doc and I cannot recall one that did not have a net improvement in comorbid conditions (like diabetes) on a replacement dose.
I have had patient come off of TRT after they lost fat mass.
Is your a1c <6?

**warmouth** · 11-22-2012, 10:56 AM

Welcome. If you can talk to gixxer, he can definitely shed some light on this subject for you if you wanted to get in tough with him.

**kelkel** · 11-22-2012, 11:23 AM

Op, do what EZ-E recommended. Copy and paste your post into a new thread on the HRT Forum. You'll get more responses there. There are many members from the Florida area that may be able to help as well. Take the time to read all the stickies there as well please.

Kel

**Joe7** · 11-22-2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Peer

Looks like your free test is low, varies by lab
Was the blood draw in the a.m.?
You may need a new doc, I have hundreds on TRT as a primary doc and I cannot recall one that did not have a net improvement in comorbid conditions (like diabetes) on a replacement dose.
I have had patient come off of TRT after they lost fat mass.
Is your a1c <6?

Peer, Yes it was fasting in the morning. Yes my A1C is good, now under <5.7

I'm waiting to see the Endo once my doctor sends the referal. Will the Endo be able to set me on TRT?
How high can your T move on TRT compared to Steroids ?

Thank you all for your help I will definatley repost it on the other thread. Tks again !

**kelkel** · 11-22-2012, 12:45 PM

Joe it just takes a knowledgeable doctor. Title does not matter. Endo, euro, ect. They just need to understand hormones.

**Peer** · 11-22-2012, 12:52 PM

Joe,
TRT is steroids !
Acceptable level depends on your doc and your response to treatment.
Consider a sleep study as well, untreated/undiagnosed sleep apnea would make attaining your goals much more difficult.

**Joe7** · 11-22-2012, 02:55 PM

Thanks Peer, I thought there was a difference between the both.

Yes I only sleep about 6 to 7 hours a day. Since taking ZMA at bedtime, I've been sleeping better. Can you recommend the best way to get a blood test that will tell me everything needed to make a good decision.

In case the doctor doesn't want to order a good blood work. I asked and its expensive here in Miami. How are the saliva tests? I would like to test my self a lot making some changes before going all out with the TRT.

**InsaneInTheMembrane** · 11-22-2012, 11:15 PM

From personal experience, my low total test levels (300-350 ng/dl were complemented by high free test %. And when I did have high overall test (500ng/dl +) , i had low % free so either way, they always worked out to the same absolute amount of free test (around 90-120).

Doctors will most likely put you on proviron to (lower shbg and free up test) and an anti-e (to prevent conversion to estrogen). If it seems to bring your free test up, you should be okay. if not, then TRT is in order. Doctors will also try to keep you within the 700-1000ng/dl test range with TRT, but you need to also make sure that your free test should be atleast 150.

**Joe7** · 11-23-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by InsaneInTheMembrane

From personal experience, my low total test levels (300-350 ng/dl were complemented by high free test %. And when I did have high overall test (500ng/dl +) , i had low % free so either way, they always worked out to the same absolute amount of free test (around 90-120).

Doctors will most likely put you on proviron to (lower shbg and free up test) and an anti-e (to prevent conversion to estrogen). If it seems to bring your free test up, you should be okay. if not, then TRT is in order. Doctors will also try to keep you within the 700-1000ng/dl test range with TRT, but you need to also make sure that your free test should be atleast 150.

So if this works, it could probably stabilize everything and then I will have no need to do TRT. Someone told me to do everything possible before doing TRT. I guess its a commitment for the rest of your life once you start right?

Are there any places where you could go get tested for everything and tell you what to do ? Or like online doctors humm.

**Peer** · 11-23-2012, 04:59 PM

Proviron is not available in the U.S. (legally) so is not an option.
Again, what is the free test ref range?
We only have testosterone and oxandrolone as legal AAS's
Test cyp injection again is quite inexpensive.
I encourage you to spend a few days researching on the TRT subforum, many of the posts have far more info than what most docs know about TRT

**Rwy** · 11-23-2012, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Peer

Proviron is not available in the U.S. (legally) so is not an option.
Again, what is the free test ref range?
We only have testosterone and oxandrolone as legal AAS's
Test cyp injection again is quite inexpensive.
I encourage you to spend a few days researching on the TRT subforum, many of the posts have far more info than what most docs know about TRT

Lots of anti aging clinics push deca also in the US. How do they get away with that?

**Peer** · 11-24-2012, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Rwy

Lots of anti aging clinics push deca also in the US. How do they get away with that?

I have no idea, maybe they have already "surrendered" their DEA # and possibly State licensing to practice medicine.

**Joe7** · 11-24-2012, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Peer

Proviron is not available in the U.S. (legally) so is not an option.
Again, what is the free test ref range?
We only have testosterone and oxandrolone as legal AAS's
Test cyp injection again is quite inexpensive.
I encourage you to spend a few days researching on the TRT subforum, many of the posts have far more info than what most docs know about TRT

Guys tks for all the help, Ive been reading around the forum.

The Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS is 321 range is 250-1100ng/dl
Free Testosterone 51.4 range is 35.0- 155.0 pg/ml

I have been taking some pills that contain D-Aspartic Acid and its supposed to increase your testosterone by 40 % in 12 days. So I want to see if it works before going to the doc. Where can I pay for a cheap new test before seeing the doctor ? Are those saliva test online any good?

**kelkel** · 11-24-2012, 11:33 PM

privatemedlabs.com

**Joe7** · 12-04-2012, 11:49 AM

I'm doing the Female hormone panel at privatemedlabs, $59 should I do the human growth hormone test also? is there any other test you recommend getting? Pisses me off that I have to pay this for my self instead of my doctor ordering a full panel.... Health insurance is BS.

**FRDave** · 12-05-2012, 05:59 PM

Here is a 15% off coupon code good till 31Dec2012 for privatemdlabs: t5ej9gd

I just got the female hormone panel for $50 using coupon code and had my Dr. check D3, DHEA-S, Pregnenolone, Cortisol, lipid panel, etc.

Hope this helps,
Dave

**Joe7** · 12-06-2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by FRDave

Here is a 15% off coupon code good till 31Dec2012 for privatemdlabs: t5ej9gd

I just got the female hormone panel for $50 using coupon code and had my Dr. check D3, DHEA-S, Pregnenolone, Cortisol, lipid panel, etc.

Hope this helps,
Dave

Tks Dave , i got the discount. But only got the female panel. I' ll post the results when I get them. I hope all the Supplements Im taking raised my T a little.

**Joe7** · 12-07-2012, 08:40 AM

Ok I got my Lab results today. I need someone to take a look and tell me how this looks. My testosterone went up from 320 to 400 I guess from taking ZMA, Vit D and Anabolic Freek ( contains DAA) Been trying to go the natural way, but I'm beginning to think it's useless.

Here are the results, basically I did the Female Hormone Panel through privatemedlabs.com. Everything was within NORMAL range. I see the estradiol is on the high range and testosterone is super low. Let me know please if you see anything interesting. tks

Testosterone , Serum 407 .......348-1197 Range
LH 3.8.....1.7-8.6
FSH 3.5....1.5-12.4
Estradiol 34.8....7.6-42.6

**Joe7** · 12-12-2012, 11:16 PM

Ok went to doctor today to get a referal to the endo. What I got from him was some cialis samples and he told me not to think about my testoreno so much because my levels are normal. I told him that before doing TRT I wanted to try all posible natural routs but looks like he doesnt want to even test me right. Thos shit is frustrating, Im paying 640 a month for insurance for jack.