Lunk and Mickey et. al Please help

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:10 PM

Ok guys, plain and simple i dont want just a no answer.

After reading and reading and reading again: Atominis Tren thread, I want to use tren second cycle.

Best results, and I can run an 8 week cycle. Im thinking about a low dose for my first tren cycle. He pretty much says everything else is a waste of money except tren, so why not take the best?

I know rule of thumb is third or fourth cycle, but what about a low dose for second cycle?

Dont slam me or anything, I am just looking for opinions and had to get your attention here since you guys didnt respond to my question in my log.

Thanks all

**stpete** · 12-20-2012, 05:18 PM

Your profile states that this will be your first cycle. What is your BF% right now?

**MickeyKnox** · 12-20-2012, 05:21 PM

Its always best to have few cycles under your belt before adding Tren . The reason for this is so that you get some experience with different sides and you see how you react to them, not juts your body but YOU personally - how you handle them is just as important.

On Tren you may experience eye bulging coughing fits or a host of others including insomnia or ED. If you panic or or you're unable to calm yourself during one of these coughing fits, it become serious depending on your reaction.

Tren, as you know, is extremely anabolic and not to taken lightly. But if you're convinced that you are going to include it next cycle, i would highly recommend you start out small and titrate up over a few cycles. 50mg EOD is a solid starting point for anyone. Keep in mind that's the equivalent of 250mg of Test E EOD.

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:22 PM

Bro, I havent updated my profile. I have a log in the members section, I am on cycle right now. Just started week 8 of Test C @ 400mg/wk.

**MickeyKnox** · 12-20-2012, 05:22 PM

First Tren cycle or first cycle?? Ok nevermind ^^

**Bio-Active** · 12-20-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Bro, I havent updated my profile. I have a log in the members section, I am on cycle right now. Just started week 8 of Test C @ 400mg/wk.

What kind of gains have you made?

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by MickeyKnox

Its always best to have few cycles under your belt before adding Tren . The reason for this is so that you get some experience with different sides and you see how you react to them, not juts your body but YOU personally - how you handle them is just as important.

On Tren you may experience eye bulging coughing fits or a host of others including insomnia or ED. If you panic or or you're unable to calm yourself during one of these coughing fits, it become serious depending on your reaction.

Tren, as you know, is extremely anabolic and not to taken lightly. But if you're convinced that you are going to include it next cycle, i would highly recommend you start out small and titrate up over a few cycles. 50mg EOD is a solid starting point for anyone. Keep in mind that's the equivalent of 250mg of Test E EOD.

Gracias. I personally dont want to use orals if I can stay away from them. I care about my liver. Tren just sounds unbelievable to me especially for my goals.

**stpete** · 12-20-2012, 05:24 PM

Oh. Well, nothing like planning ahead. Let's see how you do on this cycle including PCT. Plenty of time to consider.

Good Luck

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

What kind of gains have you made?

I have maintained weight and have made an awesome visual transformation. Have put up bench numbers ive never seen. Dont have enough weights at my house to make my squat go up, but im not looking for bigger legs yet. I plan on posting my pictures when my cycle is complete. Everyone who hasnt seen me in a while always asks what supplements i have been taking, or what kind of training am I doing.

Those little things like that make me happy.

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by stpete

Oh. Well, nothing like planning ahead. Let's see how you do on this cycle including PCT. Plenty of time to consider.

Good Luck

I just read my response to you, it sounded rude on text, wasnt meant to be like that lol. But yes i love planning. "failure to prepare is preparing to fail" - John Wooden

**songdog** · 12-20-2012, 05:47 PM

Not enough weights to do legs! but you are cycling? No less want to run Tren ? 1st you really need to get in a gym before you cycle.2nd you can make great gains without using Tren.Smart guys use other compounds until their gains slow then hit the big dawg.This way you get more out of your cycles.Beacuse you are only going to grow so much on each cycle.But until you go to a real gym.You are wasting your money.And in the end you will look bad with chicken legs.

**Bio-Active** · 12-20-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

I have maintained weight and have made an awesome visual transformation. Have put up bench numbers ive never seen. Dont have enough weights at my house to make my squat go up, but im not looking for bigger legs yet. I plan on posting my pictures when my cycle is complete. Everyone who hasnt seen me in a while always asks what supplements i have been taking, or what kind of training am I doing.

Those little things like that make me happy.

Why not finish this cycle, do pct , take correct time off and run another test only cycle and see if you can continue to gain before adding another compound?

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 05:52 PM

Here is my thoughts...for what they are worth. I have not mentioned this much but why hide it. I ran tren my very first cycle and have not looked back! It has been a bumpy road of trial and error!

Thank god I have found this site and learned more than I EVER thought I would learn or thought I would ever NEED to learn.

At the end of the day use of tren for anyone at ANY time imo comes down to maturity! This determines if you can responsibly handle the mental and physical sides. I will be honest that your log has impressed me but you have at the same time showed that you were willing to take risks to prove a point vs listening to sound advise fron dozens of very experienced users. Tren has been known to put ppl in the hospital and I fear you may take the same cavalier attitude with tren and that scares me!

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by songdog

Not enough weights to do legs! but you are cycling? No less want to run Tren? 1st you really need to get in a gym before you cycle.2nd you can make great gains without using Tren.Smart guys use other compounds until their gains slow then hit the big dawg.This way you get more out of your cycles.Beacuse you are only going to grow so much on each cycle.But until you go to a real gym.You are wasting your money.And in the end you will look bad with chicken legs.

A real gym? I have a platform and bumpers up to 300lb. I have squat stands. I have rubber hex DB's to 80. what more do I need? I dont use machines. I lift olympic and powerlifting. Ive been training since i was 15.... Weights are expensive, you slowly add to your collection... its much easier to walk downstairs then to drive to a gym. plus fasted cardio is ten times easier at my house since I have an elliptical too...

Just stick to the topic please.

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Why not finish this cycle, do pct , take correct time off and run another test only cycle and see if you can continue to gain before adding another compound?

I never said I wasnt finishing my cycle! My current cycle has nothing to do with planning a second.

**panntastic** · 12-20-2012, 05:56 PM

^^^ glad you posted this brother nothing like honesty being the best policy and as always I admire you for it

**panntastic** · 12-20-2012, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by panntastic

^^^ glad you posted this brother nothing like honesty being the best policy and as always I admire you for it

Sorry that was meant for links last post about running tren first cycle

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Here is my thoughts...for what they are worth. I have not mentioned this much but why hide it. I ran tren my very first cycle and have not looked back! It has been a bumpy road of trial and error!

Thank god I have found this site and learned more than I EVER thought I would learn or thought I would ever NEED to learn.

At the end of the day use of tren for anyone at ANY time imo comes down to maturity! This determines if you can responsibly handle the mental and physical sides. I will be honest that your log has impressed me but you have at the same time showed that you were willing to take risks to prove a point vs listening to sound advise fron dozens of very experienced users. Tren has been known to put ppl in the hospital and I fear you may take the same cavalier attitude with tren and that scares me!

You have honestly given the best response. Risks I have taken? Like clomid over hCG ? Dont think its working out too well, which is why im on hCG now... forgot to mention that. What other things have I done to prove a point? Im on plain Test C. Finishing this cycle with test and test only, and the logic behind my question is very good. If tren is the best, and as a mature athlete and one who takes his training seriously, it just seems logical to take tren. Granted it would be along the lines of what mickey said. Im not looking for a yes or a no, but simply advice on whether you would or wouldnt do it.

You said you never looked back, may I ask what your first dosing of tren was?

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by songdog

Not enough weights to do legs! but you are cycling? No less want to run Tren? 1st you really need to get in a gym before you cycle.2nd you can make great gains without using Tren.Smart guys use other compounds until their gains slow then hit the big dawg.This way you get more out of your cycles.Beacuse you are only going to grow so much on each cycle.But until you go to a real gym.You are wasting your money.And in the end you will look bad with chicken legs.

Chicken legs? Do you see what my username is? I have another nickname, tree trunks. These puppies just need toned man.

**Bio-Active** · 12-20-2012, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

I never said I wasnt finishing my cycle! My current cycle has nothing to do with planning a second.

Sorry bro I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't finish your current cycle. I was just saying why not run your 2nd cycle test only till you max out your gains before adding another compound?

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Sorry bro I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't finish your current cycle. I was just saying why not run your 2nd cycle test only till you max out your gains before adding another compound?

I see, it was completely confusing the way you said it then. Um, I dont know and thats just the thing. People say you dont need to increase the amount of test you take. I just posed a question through PM to someone about maybe just prop next cycle ed but if its the same as cyp well then im not really adding anything, and again I want to stay away from orals if at all possible. I dont want bloat. and I want the best, and people who use Tren properly say nothing except "its the best". So thats why i started the thread

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

You have honestly given the best response. Risks I have taken? Like clomid over hCG ? Dont think its working out too well, which is why im on hCG now... forgot to mention that. What other things have I done to prove a point? Im on plain Test C. Finishing this cycle with test and test only, and the logic behind my question is very good. If tren is the best, and as a mature athlete and one who takes his training seriously, it just seems logical to take tren. Granted it would be along the lines of what mickey said. Im not looking for a yes or a no, but simply advice on whether you would or wouldnt do it.

You said you never looked back, may I ask what your first dosing of tren was?

My first dose was Prop 100 EOD and Tren A (started at 50 EOD and worked up to 100 EOD).

Yes...the way you decided to go against alot of Vet advise to not use Clomid during the cycle seemed very immature! Considering this is your first cycle and some of these guys who advised you not do have done more cycles than you have had Bdays. if you decide to experiment and go against good advise on a tren cycle it could have adverse effects!

**Bio-Active** · 12-20-2012, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

I see, it was completely confusing the way you said it then. Um, I dont know and thats just the thing. People say you dont need to increase the amount of test you take. I just posed a question through PM to someone about maybe just prop next cycle ed but if its the same as cyp well then im not really adding anything, and again I want to stay away from orals if at all possible. I dont want bloat. and I want the best, and people who use Tren properly say nothing except "its the best". So thats why i started the thread

Test is test, I am not fond of pinning every day. So I prefer cyp. Remember this is not a race. I would suggest continuing to run test only cycles until you are not happy with the gains you are making before considering adding another compound. Honestly I don't think you will feel as good on a Tren test cycle as just a test cycle cause of the sides. Spend some time researching the sides of Tren before deciding. Just my .02

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Test is test, I am not fond of pinning every day. So I prefer cyp. Remember this is not a race. I would suggest continuing to run test only cycles until you are not happy with the gains you are making before considering adding another compound. Honestly I don't think you will feel as good on a Tren test cycle as just a test cycle cause of the sides. Spend some time researching the sides of Tren before deciding. Just my .02

Respect man, good post.

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

I see, it was completely confusing the way you said it then. Um, I dont know and thats just the thing. People say you dont need to increase the amount of test you take. I just posed a question through PM to someone about maybe just prop next cycle ed but if its the same as cyp well then im not really adding anything, and again I want to stay away from orals if at all possible. I dont want bloat. and I want the best, and people who use Tren properly say nothing except "its the best". So thats why i started the thread

There was a thread a bunch of us were in the other night were we were ALL bitching about tren (those who have done it). It is the strongest steroid no doubt but....many off us are tired of dealing with the ass kicking it can give you. I for one will be dumping it (for a while)

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

My first dose was Prop 100 EOD and Tren A (started at 50 EOD and worked up to 100 EOD).

Yes...the way you decided to go against alot of Vet advise to not use Clomid during the cycle seemed very immature! Considering this is your first cycle and some of these guys who advised you not do have done more cycles than you have had Bdays. if you decide to experiment and go against good advise on a tren cycle it could have adverse effects!

That was the one thing I specifically wanted to try based on published university studies... hCG works significantly better. and now that problem is solved so now I can vouch 100 times more for hCG. Not that I didnt think it would work, but I wasnt the only one asking about clomid.

But yes, you were right.

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

There was a thread a bunch of us were in the other night were we were ALL bitching about tren (those who have done it). It is the strongest steroid no doubt but....many off us are tired of dealing with the ass kicking it can give you. I for one will be dumping it (for a while)

How much are people dosing when they complain? What complaints do you have about it?

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

That was the one thing I specifically wanted to try based on published university studies... hCG works significantly better. and now that problem is solved so now I can vouch 100 times more for hCG. Not that I didnt think it would work, but I wasnt the only one asking about clomid.

But yes, you were right.

I'm not pointing out anyone was wrong or right...just that you had the I'll try it and see for myself attitude which went against all the sound advise. I'm just very concerned you may decide that some article you read on not needing an AI on tren or someshit will cause you to experiment again and take risks that could cause health problems!

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

I'm not pointing out anyone was wrong or right...just that you had the I'll try it and see for myself attitude which went against all the sound advise. I'm just very concerned you may decide that some article you read on not needing an AI on tren or someshit will cause you to experiment again and take risks that could cause health problems!

I dont want gyno, hell no. No way no how. Would never not run AI!

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

I dont want gyno, hell no. No way no how. Would never not run AI!

I think your missing my point argggg! Tren takes maturity plain and simple!

**gonebluffn** · 12-20-2012, 06:44 PM

Agree with songdog I have a fitness room at home as well fasted cardio as you said is much easier at home.I also have dumbells from 10 lbs to 80 lbs and 450 lbs of plates and its good when I dont have time to make it to the gym . But there is no way I can get the workout at home that I can at the gym and if you only have 300lbs in plates your legs are going to stop growing soon .

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by panntastic

^^^ glad you posted this brother nothing like honesty being the best policy and as always I admire you for it

Well...then let me see new pics of that butterball baby

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by gonebluffn

Agree with songdog I have a fitness room at home as well fasted cardio as you said is much easier at home.I also have dumbells from 10 lbs to 80 lbs and 450 lbs of plates and its good when I dont have time to make it to the gym . But there is no way I can get the workout at home that I can at the gym and if you only have 300lbs in plates your legs are going to stop growing soon .

Well like i said before. I don't want bigger legs. And in my opinion, if you can't train at home with what you have, then something is wrong with your workouts.

I want my own home gym for a reason. To be home. I've been powerlifting and Olympic lifting since age 15. What I have at home is more than I can get at a gym. Can be as loud as I want. Can slam the weight onto my platform. Don't have to wait to be next on the squat rack. Can take a dump mid workout on my own toilet.

**Atomini** · 12-20-2012, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Ok guys, plain and simple i dont want just a no answer.

After reading and reading and reading again: Atominis Tren thread, I want to use tren second cycle.

Best results, and I can run an 8 week cycle. Im thinking about a low dose for my first tren cycle. He pretty much says everything else is a waste of money except tren, so why not take the best?

I know rule of thumb is third or fourth cycle, but what about a low dose for second cycle?

Dont slam me or anything, I am just looking for opinions and had to get your attention here since you guys didnt respond to my question in my log.

Thanks all

I don't want my words to be misquoted or misunderstood here. When I said that Trenbolone is the strongest thing out there for your dollar, I was not saying that one should just throw the baby out with the bathwater and dive head-on into Tren without regard for building up a good cycle experience under your belt with some Testosterone -only cycles.

Trenbolone is very powerful, yes. It is the biggest bang for your buck, yes. But at the same time it is not something to just instantly jump to on your second cycle. If you're only up to your second cycle, why not just use Testosterone again? I might be a big Trenbolone user, but even I still run Testosterone-only cycles once in a while. There is a reason why people came up with the old adage "Test is best". That's because it really is. It is the safest, easiest on the body, most natural AAS out there. Why not build up your mass and make your gains off of Testosterone for the next few cycles before you decide to hit the hard stuff?

One of the other reasons why Trenbolone is reccomended for advanced users only is because its so damn powerful that it's actually OVERKILL for a beginner. Highly experienced AAS users that have been at this game for a while use Trenbolone because weaker anabolics such as Testosterone don't work as well for them because they have come far closer to their genetic limits than you have. Their response isn't as great as a beginner. But for you, man... you would make incredible gains from some more Testosterone. If you use Trenbolone now, you're wasting your money. At your stage as a beginner, Trenbolone will NOT give you anything greater than Testosterone will...

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

I don't want my words to be misquoted or misunderstood here. When I said that Trenbolone is the strongest thing out there for your dollar, I was not saying that one should just throw the baby out with the bathwater and dive head-on into Tren without regard for building up a good cycle experience under your belt with some Testosterone -only cycles.

Trenbolone is very powerful, yes. It is the biggest bang for your buck, yes. But at the same time it is not something to just instantly jump to on your second cycle. If you're only up to your second cycle, why not just use Testosterone again? I might be a big Trenbolone user, but even I still run Testosterone-only cycles once in a while. There is a reason why people came up with the old adage "Test is best". That's because it really is. It is the safest, easiest on the body, most natural AAS out there. Why not build up your mass and make your gains off of Testosterone for the next few cycles before you decide to hit the hard stuff?

One of the other reasons why Trenbolone is reccomended for advanced users only is because its so damn powerful that it's actually OVERKILL for a beginner. Highly experienced AAS users that have been at this game for a while use Trenbolone because weaker anabolics such as Testosterone don't work as well for them because they have come far closer to their genetic limits than you have. Their response isn't as great as a beginner. But for you, man... you would make incredible gains from some more Testosterone. If you use Trenbolone now, you're wasting your money. At your stage as a beginner, Trenbolone will NOT give you anything greater than Testosterone will...

Now that was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks a lot atomini. I really mean it. I see what you mean.

**Atomini** · 12-20-2012, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Now that was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks a lot atomini. I really mean it. I see what you mean.

I really wasn't expecting such a reaction, lol.

But i'm glad you're taking my advice. Because trust me, when the time comes for you to use Trenbolone , whether that be 5 cycles from now or 10 cycles from now, it will make it all that much better. It will really feel like a breath of fresh air in a room full of farts when you've reached the point where 500mg weekly of Testosterone just isn't doing it like it used to, and now it's time to decide to do a cycle of (for example) 100mg/week Testosterone with 300mg/week Trenbolone. Remember that Trenbolone is 5x stronger than Testosterone. 300mg weekly of Trenbolone is the equivalent of 1,500mg weekly of Testosterone(!!!), and when you're experienced enough that Testosterone just isn't doing it for you anymore, that's when your body will take full advantage of that 1,500mg (hypothetical) strength of Trenbolone. So you see how what I was saying about "wasting money" applies here. If you currently respond well to 300-500mg weekly of Testosterone, keep doing that! If you suddenly start using 300mg of Trenbolone (1,500mg equvalent strength in Testosterone), all that potency will just be wasted when you could just easily respond the same to 300-500mg weekly of Testosterone.

**Squats33** · 12-20-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Atomini

I really wasn't expecting such a reaction, lol.

But i'm glad you're taking my advice. Because trust me, when the time comes for you to use Trenbolone, whether that be 5 cycles from now or 10 cycles from now, it will make it all that much better. It will really feel like a breath of fresh air in a room full of farts when you've reached the point where 500mg weekly of Testosterone just isn't doing it like it used to, and now it's time to decide to do a cycle of (for example) 100mg/week Testosterone with 300mg/week Trenbolone. Remember that Trenbolone is 5x stronger than Testosterone. 300mg weekly of Trenbolone is the equivalent of 1,500mg weekly of Testosterone(!!!), and when you're experienced enough that Testosterone just isn't doing it for you anymore, that's when your body will take full advantage of that 1,500mg (hypothetical) strength of Trenbolone. So you see how what I was saying about "wasting money" applies here. If you currently respond well to 300-500mg weekly of Testosterone, keep doing that! If you suddenly start using 300mg of Trenbolone (1,500mg equvalent strength in Testosterone), all that potency will just be wasted when you could just easily respond the same to 300-500mg weekly of Testosterone.

Yeah it makes sense. Ill research more. Maybe Prop, NPP cycle perhaps... who knows, all I know is, this thread finally got somewhere!

**stpete** · 12-20-2012, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

I just read my response to you, it sounded rude on text, wasnt meant to be like that lol. But yes i love planning. "failure to prepare is preparing to fail" - John Wooden

No problem, buddy. I didn't take it that way.

Originally Posted by Atomini

I don't want my words to be misquoted or misunderstood here. When I said that Trenbolone is the strongest thing out there for your dollar, I was not saying that one should just throw the baby out with the bathwater and dive head-on into Tren without regard for building up a good cycle experience under your belt with some Testosterone -only cycles.

Trenbolone is very powerful, yes. It is the biggest bang for your buck, yes. But at the same time it is not something to just instantly jump to on your second cycle. If you're only up to your second cycle, why not just use Testosterone again? I might be a big Trenbolone user, but even I still run Testosterone-only cycles once in a while. There is a reason why people came up with the old adage "Test is best". That's because it really is. It is the safest, easiest on the body, most natural AAS out there. Why not build up your mass and make your gains off of Testosterone for the next few cycles before you decide to hit the hard stuff?

One of the other reasons why Trenbolone is reccomended for advanced users only is because its so damn powerful that it's actually OVERKILL for a beginner. Highly experienced AAS users that have been at this game for a while use Trenbolone because weaker anabolics such as Testosterone don't work as well for them because they have come far closer to their genetic limits than you have. Their response isn't as great as a beginner. But for you, man... you would make incredible gains from some more Testosterone. If you use Trenbolone now, you're wasting your money. At your stage as a beginner, Trenbolone will NOT give you anything greater than Testosterone will...

X2...Well said.

**stpete** · 12-20-2012, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Yeah it makes sense. Ill research more. Maybe Prop, NPP cycle perhaps... who knows, all I know is, this thread finally got somewhere!

Since you mentioned NPP, brings me to something else. I think that a person should start w/a lighter 19-nor than the king of all 19-nors. I think you might like that for maybe a third cycle. assuming you'll have no problems pinning ed or eod. And that's something you need to be totally sure of before starting. Second cycle you might want to consider dbol for the first 4-5 weeks and maybe up your test a bit.

I've ran some crazy cycles in my day but forgot till last august how much i really missed test. So i've been running test and loving it! and my first 3 cycles were test only. Good old days.

**Lunk1** · 12-20-2012, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Squats33

Yeah it makes sense. Ill research more. Maybe Prop, NPP cycle perhaps... who knows, all I know is, this thread finally got somewhere!

So nothing anyone else said made sense, helped out or "got anywhere"? This is my point! Run tren please...I would love to see your arrogance get the best of you! Nobody in this thread has done anything but offered you good advise, just like any other thread.

Hmmmm...NPP! Great idea but jeez, I guess your only NOW getting the answers that make sense!