looking for a safe cycle

[Ole kristian]

hey. im planning on doing some cycles in the near future and im looking for some help.

im 5.7 tall and weigth 158 pounds. my goal is 185 pounds but im not planning on taking steroids all the way to 185 pounds.
what im looking for is something that can boost my weigth a bit. i think im a ectomorph cause i its realy hard for me to gain anything.

what im looking for is a "safe" cycle, i have been reading abit on anavar (oxandrolone) and primobolan but my knowlege about steroids in general is not good enougth to know what i should use. by earlier experience i think its smart to take steroids that have a fast half-life, if any bad side effect would come i would the be able to stop the side effects as fast as posible. dossage, cycle time, recovery and other tip is what im after.

i hope i can get good informative answers and not bullshit comment like "Get out of this forum, you dont know what you are doing!" no im not proffesonal or have a P.hd on this field, and thats the reason why im here. all i want is to get some help so i can do a cycle as safe as posible but still get some result.

im working out 3-4 times a week and i eat realy good and healthy food, my exercise is all about perfection and pushing my self to the very limmit. as a "bodybuilder" im not a new beginner and i think im ready for using steroids as a supplement.

thaks for helping me out.

[redz]

You claimed to have low testosterone in the other thread was that confirmed through blood test? if so the last thing you want to be doing is cycling. You might put yourself in a situation where you are on trt for life.

[stpete]

Care to elaborate a little more on your diet?

[Ole kristian]

thanks for the warning, ill check it up.

[Provita]

Personally, i think the question is not put right. It is not "what is a safe cycle", it is "how do I cycle safely?". Putting chemicals in your body is not a safe thing to do. You can however lower the risks by taking the right dose and other supplements.

This is just my honest opinion.

Read up on beginner cycles and once you are done, read up some more and more and more...

[MickeyKnox]

Personally, i think the question is not put right. It is not "what is a safe cycle", it is "how do I cycle safely?". Putting chemicals in your body is not a safe thing to do. You can however lower the risks by taking the right dose and other supplements.

This is just my honest opinion.

Read up on beginner cycles and once you are done, read up some more and more and more...

Take a look at this thread. This member needs to first address his low Test levels before embarking on any AAS cycle, imho..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UTKCIzcUX0E

[Provita]

Take a look at this thread. This member needs to first address his low Test levels before embarking on any AAS cycle, imho..

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UTKCIzcUX0E

Agree! I merely wanted to state the importance of knowing what aas is. It is chemicals that can do a lot of harm. And with low T levels the risk is even greater...

[Sociabear]

Diet info please....
5*7 and 158... Not eating enough IMO.

[>Good Luck<]

Hey bro, just stopped in to see what's up. I dont think 5'7" @ 158 is terrible, but hey- many disagree with me as I was a few pounds from that just a short time ago.

As someone with similar stats, I would say that the guys are right and you do need to spend some time on diet. I don't quite agree with how they come up with this assumption by sayin "5'7" @ 158 = not eating enough" because many people on here were over weight when they embarked on their journey, and some were not. I've had loads of trouble gaining weight, but as a fact from my doctor, at my height I am slightly over weight... Having said this, if you don't wish to be "normal" and want to advance in your bodybuilding journey, let's just say that you need to have more solid answers to simple questions like "what's your diet like"

Here's my diet:

Meal 1- bacon egg and cheese English muffin, hashbrown patty and 500mL full milk

855cal 44g pro 74g carb 42g fat 23g sugar

Meal 2- 500mL oj, 1 can white albacore, 1/4 Cuecombre, raspberry vinaigrette, 12 ritz crackers

579 cal 38g pro 82g carb 10g fat 49g sugar

Meal 3 - large split top bun, 30g mozzarella, mayo, turkey, soprasata, lettuce & water

614 cal 30g pro 34g carb 38g fat 0g sugar

Meal 4 - peanut butter & jam sandwich, 500mL full milk (pre-workout drive home from work)

754 cal 30g pro 77g carb 37g fat 35g sugar

Meal 5 - PWO shake - 375mL full milk, whey, rolled oats & dextrose.

713 cal 54g pro 82g carb 18g fat 48g sugar

Meal 6 - chicken breast, 1 cup rice, cauliflower, 500mL oj

601 cal 44g pro 100g carb 3g fat 46g sugar

Meal 7 - snack- oatmeal crisp almond cereal, 500mL full milk

800 cal 30g pro 118g carb 24g fat 54g sugar

Totals: 4916 cal 270g pro 567g carb 172g fat 255g sugar

Now I must say I've been able to change this from day to day, and I have cheat days, and I have substitute meals that I know the values...

My point is, you won't be able to maximize the potential of using these harsh drugs if you aren't educated on nutrition, and able to calculate what is going in and what you can afford to take out. This is the foundation for taking lifting weights to the level of bodybuilding.

Secondly, the only way for people here to give you the best advice possible, and the safest advice tailored to you is for you to be completely and utterly honest with us. Nobody is going to disregard you for not knowing something, but almost all of us will disregard you if you aren't able to show some charisma and prove that you aren't just some kid crying wolf and looking for an easy way out. About your low t, I call BS. no disrespect, but EVERY kid (under 25 is kids around here) has low t when they show up here. Forget that nonsense and let's start fresh. I'm here to help in any way I can.

Good luck!

[Bio-Active]

Hey bro, just stopped in to see what's up. I dont think 5'7" @ 158 is terrible, but hey- many disagree with me as I was a few pounds from that just a short time ago.

As someone with similar stats, I would say that the guys are right and you do need to spend some time on diet. I don't quite agree with how they come up with this assumption by sayin "5'7" @ 158 = not eating enough" because many people on here were over weight when they embarked on their journey, and some were not. I've had loads of trouble gaining weight, but as a fact from my doctor, at my height I am slightly over weight... Having said this, if you don't wish to be "normal" and want to advance in your bodybuilding journey, let's just say that you need to have more solid answers to simple questions like "what's your diet like"

Here's my diet:

Meal 1- bacon egg and cheese English muffin, hashbrown patty and 500mL full milk

855cal 44g pro 74g carb 42g fat 23g sugar

Meal 2- 500mL oj, 1 can white albacore, 1/4 Cuecombre, raspberry vinaigrette, 12 ritz crackers

579 cal 38g pro 82g carb 10g fat 49g sugar

Meal 3 - large split top bun, 30g mozzarella, mayo, turkey, soprasata, lettuce & water

614 cal 30g pro 34g carb 38g fat 0g sugar

Meal 4 - peanut butter & jam sandwich, 500mL full milk (pre-workout drive home from work)

754 cal 30g pro 77g carb 37g fat 35g sugar

Meal 5 - PWO shake - 375mL full milk, whey, rolled oats & dextrose.

713 cal 54g pro 82g carb 18g fat 48g sugar

Meal 6 - chicken breast, 1 cup rice, cauliflower, 500mL oj

601 cal 44g pro 100g carb 3g fat 46g sugar

Meal 7 - snack- oatmeal crisp almond cereal, 500mL full milk

800 cal 30g pro 118g carb 24g fat 54g sugar

Totals: 4916 cal 270g pro 567g carb 172g fat 255g sugar

Now I must say I've been able to change this from day to day, and I have cheat days, and I have substitute meals that I know the values...

My point is, you won't be able to maximize the potential of using these harsh drugs if you aren't educated on nutrition, and able to calculate what is going in and what you can afford to take out. This is the foundation for taking lifting weights to the level of bodybuilding.

Secondly, the only way for people here to give you the best advice possible, and the safest advice tailored to you is for you to be completely and utterly honest with us. Nobody is going to disregard you for not knowing something, but almost all of us will disregard you if you aren't able to show some charisma and prove that you aren't just some kid crying wolf and looking for an easy way out. About your low t, I call BS. no disrespect, but EVERY kid (under 25 is kids around here) has low t when they show up here. Forget that nonsense and let's start fresh. I'm here to help in any way I can.

Good luck!

Are you bulking?

[>Good Luck<]

Are you bulking?

Most definitely. It's also considerably dirty, and has cleaned up tremendously. I just used a c&p from my log when I first outlined my diet. I now use more eggs and less bread, less milk etc.

[Bio-Active]

Most definitely. It's also considerably dirty, and has cleaned up tremendously. I just used a c&p from my log when I first outlined my diet. I now use more eggs and less bread, less milk etc.

Lol that's what I was hoping you would say but I figured

[bstacked]

That example of diet is horrendous don't follow that even in bulk holy shit cheat days is every day lmao

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

[Rwy]

No offense Good Luck but I agree with the above. That sounds like my sunday cheat day lol

[thai007goy]

That example of diet is horrendous don't follow that even in bulk holy shit cheat days is every day lmao

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

Lmao...sorry to laugh. But your diet can definitely be better.

[>Good Luck<]

Most definitely. It's also considerably dirty, and has cleaned up tremendously. I just used a c&p from my log when I first outlined my diet. I now use more eggs and less bread, less milk etc.

Hey read the quote^^lol i know it's dirty, and it was an example of how one should know what they are eating and how it boils down into macros.

In my dirty bulk thread, I was very clear that I don't recommend this to anyone and I don't claim it to be a clean diet for "lean bulking" as everyone around here talks about. It's a good old fashioned dirty bulk. Lately I've replaced many of that with better foods because I realized that too much cals from far was hard to digest.

[>Good Luck<]

That example of diet is horrendous don't follow that even in bulk holy shit cheat days is every day lmao

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

On cheat days I eat pizza and chips and takeout chinese food and other EVEN DIRTY-er food lol

[lovbyts]

Are you bulking?

That example of diet is horrendous don't follow that even in bulk holy shit cheat days is every day lmao

Sent from my iPhone using Forum

No offense Good Luck but I agree with the above. That sounds like my sunday cheat day lol

Hey read the quote^^lol i know it's dirty, and it was an example of how one should know what they are eating and how it boils down into macros.

In my dirty bulk thread, I was very clear that I don't recommend this to anyone and I don't claim it to be a clean diet for "lean bulking" as everyone around here talks about. It's a good old fashioned dirty bulk. Lately I've replaced many of that with better foods because I realized that too much cals from far was hard to digest.

^^^ Agreed with Good Luck

Not everyone has the same goals or is trying to get or stay at sub 10% body fat. Some of us just want to look GOOD, not necessarily great and we know by cleaning things up a little we can look a lot better in a short time.

My diet is pretty close to what Good Luck's is. It's far from Clean or perfect and to be honest his is probably a lot better than mine. I'm lucky though as he probably is and I can cut pretty quick if I really want to, although I have not been to the point I want to get down to 8% body fat YET; I will soon though towards the end of the classic competition.

Back to the OP's original question.
First and foremost the way to do or be ready for a safe cycle is to make sure your current and all other health concerns are taken care of first or you will just make things worse and more complicated than they need to be.
In the mean time continue learning about proper first cycle (test only) and what you should do and watch for. You should have plenty of time to learn between now and then.

I think it's important to get blood work done 3-4 weeks into cycle to check your test levels and E2. You really dont want to guess on those things and you will know if you need more or less AI while running cycle. You cant always tell/feel if you have high E2. Mine has been over 300 and I felt fine.

[Sociabear]

Why dirty bulk? I don't get it?

Just have a cheat meal every 3 days or so. Even on the cheat meal days I keep my macros the same as a regular day

75-80 fat
500 carb
300 - 330 protein
Dirty bulking makes you gain less lbm IMO. You can't really watch the body change ect with all the water you're holding to. You have to dirt harder to being off the excessive body fat and the harder you diet the more lbm you'll accidentally eat up dieting.

[>Good Luck<]

Why dirty bulk? I don't get it?

Just have a cheat meal every 3 days or so. Even on the cheat meal days I keep my macros the same as a regular day

75-80 fat
500 carb
300 - 330 protein
Dirty bulking makes you gain less lbm IMO. You can't really watch the body change ect with all the water you're holding to. You have to dirt harder to being off the excessive body fat and the harder you diet the more lbm you'll accidentally eat up dieting.

Just different goals my friend. That's all. And a matter of opinion. I would say I'm gaining more
LBM than when I was eating so clean. I look and feel great and I actually enjoy eating. The last part is very important to me. Enjoyment of eating can be traded for any body shape IMO because eating has always been a big part of my family life. I'd rather save the chicken breast and brown rice routine for those who are very serious about keeping bf low as possible and may be choosing to compete one day. For me this is a hobby, and I am satisfied with my results so far

Op can also choose his direction, but needs to arm himself with thorough knowledge before he makes a move

[lovbyts]

Why dirty bulk? I don't get it?

Just have a cheat meal every 3 days or so. Even on the cheat meal days I keep my macros the same as a regular day

75-80 fat
500 carb
300 - 330 protein
Dirty bulking makes you gain less lbm IMO. You can't really watch the body change ect with all the water you're holding to. You have to dirt harder to being off the excessive body fat and the harder you diet the more lbm you'll accidentally eat up dieting.

That's far from an actual dirty bulk. Dirty bulk is eating sh*t all day. Fast food, ham burgers, fries, pizza, chips and most anything 24/7.
A piece of bacon or two and some hash browns is not going to kill you or hurt much of anything an extra 5-10 minutes of cardio wont take care of.

[Sociabear]

Fair enough , I understand everyone is different.

You think you feel your gaining more though just because your ballooned up from the water though?

When I run my insulin every other month I compare it to that feeling. Being a marshmallow man 24/7 lol. I look supersized but it fades as I come off.

[>Good Luck<]

Fair enough , I understand everyone is different.

You think you feel your gaining more though just because your ballooned up from the water though?

When I run my insulin every other month I compare it to that feeling. Being a marshmallow man 24/7 lol. I look supersized but it fades as I come off.

You're pretty wrong, no offense. When I make my own food I continuously watch the sodium intake, and I don't add salt unless it is absolutely necessary. Also I choose compounds that do not contribute to water retention, and I use AI that reduces the conversion of test to est and further reduces water retention. I may not be lean as some want to be but that fits my goal of bulking, and not cutting or trying to stay lean etc. If water retention was such a serious problem, there wouldn't be compounds like a-50 and dbol and such, the water retention gods lol

[swm1972]

You claimed to have low testosterone in the other thread was that confirmed through blood test? if so the last thing you want to be doing is cycling. You might put yourself in a situation where you are on trt for life.

Why did he have low t? Previous cycling or had he never touched steroids ? If the latter, he likely is a candidate for hrt for life anyway.

I was put on hrt before touching any gear. To hear hrt referred to as a negative strikes me as odd. In my case it is a medication that improves quality of life.

[swm1972]

158lbs sounds very light. But he is extremely short for a man too. Really depends on composition. Look at UFC weigh ins and you see two men of equal weight and similar height. One might looks soft and the other ripped. Huge difference in lean mass.

I think he could probably gain another 10lbs naturally if he truly dialed in his diet and training. But I doubt it is likely most 5'7" men could achieve 190-200lbs naturally.

I've seen discussions on weight/height before and the general consensus was 10lbs for each additional inch of height. I don't know how accurate this is. But if it were accurate he would be the equivalent of a 189lbs man at 5'10". I achieved a lean 200lbs before touching gear. Sounds like he is close but not quite there.

[>Good Luck<]

Why did he have low t? Previous cycling or had he never touched steroids ? If the latter, he likely is a candidate for hrt for life anyway.

I was put on hrt before touching any gear. To hear hrt referred to as a negative strikes me as odd. In my case it is a medication that improves quality of life.

Nothing wrong with HRT, but how do u feel about self-diagnosis or self medicating? Also he has a previous thread claiming to have exp with Tren and test and other compounds... Probably poor pct?

[Sociabear]

I'm not saying water retention is all evil, I meant as far as you think you're gaining good. Being watery gives the illusion of more mass IMO then you diet and deflate and realize maybe you didn't pack on as much quality as you thought.

[lovbyts]

I'm not saying water retention is all evil, I meant as far as you think you're gaining good. Being watery gives the illusion of more mass IMO then you diet and deflate and realize maybe you didn't pack on as much quality as you thought.

LOL
OK it's time for you to post up your diet since obviously we could all benefit from your superior knowledge and experience. May I suggest you then contact admin and ask to be promoted to nutrition specialist.
Now lets see it...

Just in case you dont already know it we have a saying around here; pictures or it didnt happen. It's one thing to preach but another to practice what you preach.

[Sociabear]

I'm not trying to come across high and mighty , I understand that different things work for different people.

Today was chest day and here was what my basic workout day looks like :

Pre workout:

2 whole eggs
6 egg whites
1 cup oatmeal
1 scoop pre wrek with added bcaas

Post workout:
MAxx recovery by ABB

60 min later:
8oz lean ground beef
1.5 large white Potatos

Meal 3:

8oz lean ground beef
1.5 white potatoS

Meal 4

8oz lean ground beef
1.5 white potato

Meal 5 :

8oz chicken breast
1 cup brown rice

Totals : 3695 calories
470 g carbs
298 g protein
66g fat

Fat is slightly higher as I use small amounts of real butter throughout cooking and olive oil.

Prebed - bcaas

[lovbyts]

BCAA's pre bed??? Doesnt that wire you? I take my BCAA pre workout. I get a good little energy boost from it.

I like using real butter vs anything man made any day. A little fat is good for you. I'm sure you also mean extra virgin olive oil. Costco has good prices.

[Sociabear]

BCAA's pre bed??? Doesnt that wire you? I take my BCAA pre workout. I get a good little energy boost from it.

I like using real butter vs anything man made any day. A little fat is good for you. I'm sure you also mean extra virgin olive oil. Costco has good prices.

Bcaas don't give me energy , I can also fall asleep anytime anywhere.

Yes cotsco is my new home lol.

Walmart does have a killer deal with chicken 1.99 a lb.

[Ole kristian]

Why did he have low t? Previous cycling or had he never touched steroids ? If the latter, he likely is a candidate for hrt for life anyway.

I was put on hrt before touching any gear. To hear hrt referred to as a negative strikes me as odd. In my case it is a medication that improves quality of life.

i have natural low T, i have touched steroids and it was the blood test before that cycle i saw my low T level. the cycle went just fine with no bad side effects (luck?)
250 mg test
250mg tren
250 mg deca
the plan was 8 weeks but luckly i shared my cycle on this forum and got told to stop. so i did just 4 weeks. i gained 20 pounds and kept 11 of them .
im not on hrt, my doc said i didnt have low enougth test level. im almost on the bottom on the average male test level (Age 20-30 years)

[lovbyts]

Bcaas don't give me energy , I can also fall asleep anytime anywhere.

Yes cotsco is my new home lol.

Walmart does have a killer deal with chicken 1.99 a lb.

Walmart chicken??? Ill pass on that one; Its probably from China, seriously... I like to stick with local chicken even though it's a little more. Boneless/skinless of course. Fried with BBQ sauce is good once in a while though.

[lovbyts]

i have natural low T, i have touched steroids and it was the blood test before that cycle i saw my low T level. the cycle went just fine with no bad side effects (luck?)
250 mg test
250mg tren
250 mg deca
the plan was 8 weeks but luckly i shared my cycle on this forum and got told to stop. so i did just 4 weeks. i gained 20 pounds and kept 11 of them .
im not on hrt, my doc said i didnt have low enougth test level. im almost on the bottom on the average male test level (Age 20-30 years)

Sounds like you have mild Hypothyroidism and a low dose of Synthroid might help. I would see about finding a urologist and see what he has to say.

[Ole kristian]

my "diet" is hard to write down. first of all i dont have a daily diet list. 2nd im a vegan (look up the studies of animal protein and you will understand)
i never eat the same dinner 2 a week.

this is normaly my standard food every day.
peppers, cucumbers, mushrooms, quinoa, onion, banana, apple, oatmeal, soy milk, broccoli, spinach, tomato.
i eat alot of others diffrent things to but this is what i get daily. i eat 8-10 times a day. i try to eat 15% protein, 20% fat, 65% carbs
i normaly get about 3500-4000 kcalories a day.

to write down everything would take me hours.

[>Good Luck<]

I'm not trying to come across high and mighty , I understand that different things work for different people.

Today was chest day and here was what my basic workout day looks like :

Pre workout:

2 whole eggs
6 egg whites
1 cup oatmeal
1 scoop pre wrek with added bcaas

Post workout:
MAxx recovery by ABB

60 min later:
8oz lean ground beef
1.5 large white Potatos

Meal 3:

8oz lean ground beef
1.5 white potatoS

Meal 4

8oz lean ground beef
1.5 white potato

Meal 5 :

8oz chicken breast
1 cup brown rice

Totals : 3695 calories
470 g carbs
298 g protein
66g fat

Fat is slightly higher as I use small amounts of real butter throughout cooking and olive oil.

Prebed - bcaas

If I ate like that for even one week I'd want to hang myself. I need flavor and variety in my day and wouldn't recommend anyone follow your diet. You mush poop out muffins eating all that potatoes and beef without a source of enough fibre to digest that, such as a vegetable ??

I have a feeling that this isn't your actual diet, and if it is, I highly doubt you could sustain such eating habits for any significant amount of time. If it is, then hats off to you, because there is no way anyone could enjoy that and I don't care to remove enjoyment from my life for some LBM. I'm here to increase the quality of my life.

[Provita]

You will struggle to build muscle on 15% protein a day. There is hardly enough to maintain existing muscle.

If I were you I would add soy protein my diet asap. As much as possible, to get protein as close to 40% as possible.

[Ole kristian]

the measurement is % of total kcal.
so 15% of 3500-4000kcal= 525-600.
witch means 525-600 of the 3500-4000 kcal i get a day is from protein.
maybe im wrong but far as i know 10-20% protein 50-60%carbs and 20-30% fat is optimal inntake for optimal bodyhealth. if im wrong, pleas show me the sources of your statement, im here to learn to =)

[Sociabear]

If I ate like that for even one week I'd want to hang myself. I need flavor and variety in my day and wouldn't recommend anyone follow your diet. You mush poop out muffins eating all that potatoes and beef without a source of enough fibre to digest that, such as a vegetable ??

I have a feeling that this isn't your actual diet, and if it is, I highly doubt you could sustain such eating habits for any significant amount of time. If it is, then hats off to you, because there is no way anyone could enjoy that and I don't care to remove enjoyment from my life for some LBM. I'm here to increase the quality of my life.

I have a cheat meal every 3 days. I am competing also so I guess that makes a difference. I like keeping an offseason diet close to the pre contest diet just higher carb intake.

Thanks for the hat tipping. I have no reason to lie to you or anyone for that matter, im here to share my knowledge as well as learn from everyone else, would be pretty shitty of me to give false knowledge ,but I also understand its the Internet .

I take a fiber supplement also to help with old digestion. Never really eaten veggies but I know I should.

[Provita]

the measurement is % of total kcal.
so 15% of 3500-4000kcal= 525-600.
witch means 525-600 of the 3500-4000 kcal i get a day is from protein.
maybe im wrong but far as i know 10-20% protein 50-60%carbs and 20-30% fat is optimal inntake for optimal bodyhealth. if im wrong, pleas show me the sources of your statement, im here to learn to =)

Just to put your diet under the spotlight a bit:
First of all you are getting in too much kCal. A great rule of thumb is body weight (in pounds) x 15-17 for an active person wanting to gain muscle and x 10 for someone wanting to lose weight (irrelevant for this thread). No matter which basic rule of thumb formula you use, no where should a 158lb man eat that much callories. Are you sure about the 3500-4000 kCal? The only good reason I could see someone eating that is if he does a lot of endurance sport. You burn crazy amounts of cals in that cardio sessions. If that is the case with you, and your goal is 185lb I would suggest leave the cardio and get to the weights.

Secondly, basic macros for a male wanting to gain muscle is:
40-50% carbs
30-40% protein
20% fats

Muscle needs protein to grow.

Thirdly, the reason why I suggested soy protein is that it is high in essential amino acids, arginine and glutamine. Those are all crucial for muscles to build. You mentioned that you are a vegan, and that makes protein sources limited. The proteins you get from most other plants aren't so high in all essential amino acids and specifically the ones that promote muscle growth. Therefore, if suggest soy protein as an extra source of protein. You are getting all your proteins from plants, and for that reason I would suggest you need to be closer to the 40% mark on protein than 30%.

Remember, you are trying to gain muscle, not sustain or lose weight. Your muscles need the fuel to rebuild the fibers that was torn in the gym.

From the start, you got suggestions to check your diet. Whether you do a cycle or not, check your diet, it will help you ether way.

I'm not going to write a thesis on a vegan trying to build muscle. Read up on dietary requirement if you are looking for sources.