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Thread: First Cycle Critique

  1. #1
    kronz is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up First Cycle Critique

    Hey guys,

    Joined the site in 2009 (can't believe I remembered my login details), was going to start a cycle back then but decided to give it a few more years.

    Info;

    Turning 26 this year
    Weight 202Lbs
    BF around 10%
    Been lifting for about 5 years
    Moderate cardio daily, nothing crazy
    Diet is good, 6 meals a day, macros are in check

    Current cycle idea is as follows;

    10 weeks
    WK 1-4 D-Bol 40MG ED (willing to drop this as its my first cycle, keen on opinions of how nessecary this is)
    WK 1-10 Test E - 500MG (So basically just your standard Test cycle if the DBol is dropped)
    WK 1-12 Nolvadex 10MG ED (figured I'll run it the whole time, rather than using it reactively to potential gyno)
    WK 1-12 Arimidex .25MG ED

    PCT
    Standard Clomid/Nolva/Arimidex tapering down for about a month (commencing 2 weeks after last test pin)

    FYI I'm not about to run out and get the gear tomorrow, still research to be done, hence this thread.

    Any input would be great.

  2. #2
    marcus300's Avatar
    marcus300 is offline ~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
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    Seeing that its your first cycle your better just sticking with the test E, even though you could try the dbol kickstart but your probably better seeing how you respond to just the test first because dbol can cause some bloating and if you tried both you wouldn't know if the bloat was from the test of dbol so just see how you go with test only IMHO. I would also look keep the cycle open ended and consider going to 12 weeks if your still gaining at 10 weeks, but if your gains have slowed down and stopped then come off and recovery.

    I would drop the arimidex in pct its not needed just stick with nolva and clomid and also I doubt you will need nolva during the cycle seeing that your taking an AI.

    I would also get some hcg for during the cycle to maintain testicular size and function, will help with recovery at the end. 250ius 2 x weekly.

    Remember to adjust your cals to suit the new stats as the cycle develops and make sure your training hard and intense enough to produce growth.
    Java Man likes this.

  3. #3
    kronz is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    I would also look keep the cycle open ended and consider going to 12 weeks if your still gaining at 10 weeks, but if your gains have slowed down and stopped then come off and recovery.
    Will keep that in mind, don't want to cut a good thing short. Without the Dbol , I think a 12 weeker sounds better.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    I would drop the arimidex in pct its not needed just stick with nolva and clomid and also I doubt you will need nolva during the cycle seeing that your taking an AI.
    Can you explain the key differences between the Nolva and an AI? I know the AI is to prevent estrogen production, and Nolva is to block receptors, but what is the practical implications of each in reality? (Laymans terms basically)

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    I would also get some hcg for during the cycle to maintain testicular size and function, will help with recovery at the end. 250ius 2 x weekly.
    Did consider this on my last cycle, some advised it's perhaps overkill. I'm not really concerned with testicular size during cycle, that aside, what are the negatives of having no HCG during cycle? PCT benefits of it are obvious, but curious to the benefits of it during..

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Remember to adjust your cals to suit the new stats as the cycle develops and make sure your training hard and intense enough to produce growth.
    Yeah will play with this during cycle, will probably add another 500 clean cals on top of my current (which is about 700cal above maintenance, has done me pretty well)

    EDIT: Formatting
    Last edited by kronz; 06-05-2013 at 05:16 AM.

  4. #4
    fit2bOld's Avatar
    fit2bOld is offline Knowledgeable Member- Recognized Member Winner - $100
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    Using the AI just as you said blocks the production no need to block the receptor if there is no excess to block. Nolva and clomid work very well together to get you up and running Nolva40/40/20/20 clomid 50/50/25/25 on first cycle test only some may say a bit more on the clomid but we all have an opinion.

    There is a whole thread on AI in the educational threads as well as PCT check those out so you know the how and why for each compound

  5. #5
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    yeh test e only first. N even 3 or so cycles if your still gaining from it. N just grow into the dose. Doesnt matter what others di (within reason), its how.u personally react to it. Adding one compound at a time ensure IF u were to have any unwanted sides its simple to eliminate.the compound

  6. #6
    Juced_porkchop's Avatar
    Juced_porkchop is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Seeing that its your first cycle your better just sticking with the test E, even though you could try the dbol kickstart but your probably better seeing how you respond to just the test first because dbol can cause some bloating and if you tried both you wouldn't know if the bloat was from the test of dbol so just see how you go with test only IMHO. I would also look keep the cycle open ended and consider going to 12 weeks if your still gaining at 10 weeks, but if your gains have slowed down and stopped then come off and recovery.

    I would drop the arimidex in pct its not needed just stick with nolva and clomid and also I doubt you will need nolva during the cycle seeing that your taking an AI.

    I would also get some hcg for during the cycle to maintain testicular size and function, will help with recovery at the end. 250ius 2 x weekly.

    Remember to adjust your cals to suit the new stats as the cycle develops and make sure your training hard and intense enough to produce growth.
    I agree with all cept i would make cycle 12-14 weeks not 10 and that HCG is not needed but may help. HCG still shuts you down but would help recovery. its such a simple short cycle though. for me I personally only rec it with heavy or long cycles over 14 weeks and I only rec it at end of cycle the last 4-5 weeks leading up to BUT NOT into PCT @ 500iu 2X a week.
    If you REALLY care about nut size.. then i guess you could use whole cycle or if you were on hrt. I don't see the value unless your a porn star personally lol.

    but deff dont run SERM during cycle you already got an AI to control gyno/.estro and i would not bother with the AI in pct.

    good luck!

    ** If you must add an oral maybe look at Tbol it wont give you the estro issues Dbol might.

  7. #7
    kronz is offline Junior Member
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    All good advice thanks to all. Looks like I'll drop Nolva from the cycle, keep it PCT only, and run an AI throughout...

  8. #8
    Java Man's Avatar
    Java Man is offline Known Troll
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    Above. X2. What Marcus said. My past position changed before I posted I feel asleep with this thread loaded and answered when I got up.. Boom a bunch of new posts had been here but I didn't refresh before posting. Lol
    Last edited by Java Man; 06-05-2013 at 07:14 AM.

  9. #9
    marcus300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronz View Post
    Will keep that in mind, don't want to cut a good thing short. Without the Dbol , I think a 12 weeker sounds better.

    Can you explain the key differences between the Nolva and an AI? I know the AI is to prevent estrogen production, and Nolva is to block receptors, but what is the practical implications of each in reality? (Laymans terms basically)



    Did consider this on my last cycle, some advised it's perhaps overkill. I'm not really concerned with testicular size during cycle, that aside, what are the negatives of having no HCG during cycle? PCT benefits of it are obvious, but curious to the benefits of it during..

    Yeah will play with this during cycle, will probably add another 500 clean cals on top of my current (which is about 700cal above maintenance, has done me pretty well)

    EDIT: Formatting
    Nolva will prevent estrogen from binding to the E receptor in the breast tissue, were an AI will prevent Testosterone being converted to E in the first place by disabling the aromatase enzyme so it doesn't become elevated. So there is no need for nolva in a cycle if your using an AI because your testosterone and estrogen balance should be in order.

    HCG during a cycle will maintain testicular size and function which will aid recovery, keeping your testicles more responsive during a cycle is better than them being dormant and going into recovery.

  10. #10
    kronz is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    keeping your testicles more responsive during a cycle is better than them being dormant and going into recovery.
    Seems logical.

    Would Nolva be recommended during cycle at least to have on hand? (I do obviously plan to have all PCT ancillaries ready before commencing cycle), or should estrogenic sides (gyno) be kept well and truly in check with the use of an AI?

  11. #11
    MuscleInk's Avatar
    MuscleInk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronz

    Seems logical.

    Would Nolva be recommended during cycle at least to have on hand? (I do obviously plan to have all PCT ancillaries ready before commencing cycle), or should estrogenic sides (gyno) be kept well and truly in check with the use of an AI?
    As Marcus indicated, with proper AI dosing there should be very little estrogen to bind to any estrogen receptors anyway.

    AI DURING CYCLE
    TAMOXIFEN (and clomiphene) PCT

    .....and kudos for making the RIGHT decision years ago to wait!

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