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  1. #1
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Any Insight or Advice is Appreciated

    Hello, I am new to this site.
    To start off I will give my stats:
    22 years old
    5'9''
    172lbs
    7-8% bf last read was 7.3 to be exact, but not sure how accurate that is.
    Lifting experience: about 5 years
    1rm WAS (didn't work out for the year of 2012 due to injury but am currently 6 months back into it
    squat:420
    bench:300
    power clean:250
    dead lift:375

    My first experience with gear was a ph, (acl tren xtreme) I made the mistake of running it at an early age (17) to get an edge for hs football. This was a mistake I didn't take likely and have not touched anything since (was waiting to do it correctly and at the right age). I have now educated myself and have done my research. I am planning to run a simple var cycle.
    My goals are: to gain strength, lean muscle (looking to add 5-8 lbs of lbm with proper dieting), obviously harden up and get to a legitimate 6% bf (with proper dieting).
    I know it is recommended to run a test base but I am choosing not to, not for fear of needles, but to reduce suppression, and to avoid as many negative sides as possible. (not too worried about reduced sex drive for a few weeks and keeping gains mild to moderate).

    I will be running var at 50-75 mg ed for 6 weeks.
    week 1-2 50 mg ed split into two doses
    week 2-6 75 mg ed also split
    May stick to 50 mg for 3 weeks and keep it at that dose if I see fit. I know the var I have is good so this may be sufficient.

    My biggest question will be: I want to add some letro either after my cycle and before pct, or after cycle and after pct. Reason for this is to hopefully reverse a mild case of gyno caused by the acl tren xtreme. I just have puffy nips, left side is a little worse, and some extra tissue on my chest at and a little below the nipple level. I want to reduce the puffiness and tighten up my chest area and reduce the extra tissue. Basically get back to normal looking again.

    Pct will be:
    week 1-3 nolva 20mg ed and clomid 50mg ed
    and slowly taper off week 4

    Again I am especially looking for thoughts on this cycle in general, and especially your thoughts on when to run the letro, I will be following Bino's Letro reversal protocol for that.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is offline Beach Bodybuilder ~Elite-Hall of Fame~
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    First up, excellent first post. Lots of detail

    Straight to the crux of the matter, here on this forum we do not advocate cycling under the age of 25. Please read

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-steroids.html

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...%2A%2A%2A.html

    Anavar is suppressive to your natural test levels as you know, but there is no guarantee that it will only be light suppression and you really don't want to be trying to function without at least a low dose of testosterone in your symptom. There's more to it than low sex drive.

    Letro is a really harsh compound and should really only be used for experienced users. If you want to try and reverse some gyno (and 5 years on its possibly too late) then you should look into raloxifene.

    http://forums.steroid.com/questions-...treatment.html

    Also, why do want to get to 6%? That's incredibly low and dangerous of any length of time. It's the kind of level that most people step on stage at local shows. Can you post a pic of your current 7%, does it look like the 7% here (except the mass)

    Any Insight or Advice is Appreciated-image-1879301282.jpg

    I think you could get excellent results with a great diet at your age, if your stats are correct then it's clear you already know how to do lots of things right. Can you post your proposed diet for gaining lean mass in our nutrition forum to see what work it may need?
    Last edited by Back In Black; 06-24-2013 at 02:19 AM.
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  3. #3
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Thank you, I will read the links you posted.

  4. #4
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Yes I was not looking forward to running Letro, but was hoping it would work. I know it has been probably too long to still reverse, but it still acts up and then mellows out when I irritate my hormone levels a little bit (the morning after drinking for example, or with little tweaks in my diet) so I was hoping to see a little positive result with the right treatment. Plus it is mild to begin with but frustrating as hell to me. I want my cuts in my lower chest back lol. I have heard of raloxifene and will look into it more as I mostly educated myself on letro, aromasin , arimidex and some supposedly progerterone treatments bromo, caber etc. Also by looking at that chart I am (as I thought not at low 7%) lol as I said in my post I was unsure on how accurate that was as I didn't really feel like 7%. So to correct myself I would like to drop 2% as I am probably at a 9% right now. I wanna lean out more than I am right now that's for sure. I have been dieting now and hitting it hard for a solid 6 months, including a good cardio regime and cant seem to make noticeable progress past where im at (plateau).

  5. #5
    clarky.'s Avatar
    clarky. is offline MONITOR
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    your still not doing it right your going to run a oral only with no test you should hang off and do some research and you are to young be a smart man and do it right.

  6. #6
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Okay so if I was to hold off on the var for a little while longer would it be safe to just run a gyno reversal for now? As I have no problem with waiting to run a var cycle. Im guessing your going to say not to run Letro because it will still alter hormone levels, will running raloxifene be safe in your opinion as it is a serm? Also your opinion as to pros and cons of running running a test based var cycle possibly next summer as I will be approaching 25. I know the basics but for me the cons (increased chance of negative sides ie: im gyno proned, and more of a shutdown or harder to recover after) outweighed the pros to adding it to my cycle.
    Thanks again guys

  7. #7
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is offline Beach Bodybuilder ~Elite-Hall of Fame~
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    Raloxifene is gaining a much better following for reversal than Letro so if you want to try that procedure then yes R is the way to go. Dosing from what I recall is 60mg per day but expect to be running it for several months rather than weeks. If you notice zero change after 4 weeks or so it probably isn't going to work.
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  8. #8
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is offline Beach Bodybuilder ~Elite-Hall of Fame~
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    When you plan for your first cycle you should run test only. That way, if you do suffer from sides, you will know which compound causes it and how to alleviate them. If you are gyno prone then that will be your biggest concern correct management of E2 levels will be paramount in avoiding flare ups. You will need to run an AI, either arimidex or aromasin , when you eventually run that cycle.

    Why do you want to be super low bodyfat anyway?
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  9. #9
    bdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post

    Why do you want to be super low bodyfat anyway?
    He's seen kel

  10. #10
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    It has been my goal to simply be shredded lol. Or progress and continue to make gains and get leaner. But not to be too low to where it is unhealthy obviously. But I do not understand how it is justified to run test, completely shut yourself down (natural test) and risk so many negative sides, rather than to run a var cycle, most likely shut down 80% or so possibly less if running a 6 week cycle at a moderate dose, and experience almost no sides besides shutdown. Not arguing, just really want to hear an opinion on it from an educated member.

    Also noted concerning the R, I will research more, I am seeing 80mg ed recommended but that will be depending on how I react to it. Would you recommend tapering or running anything after to prevent rebound (will it even cause rebound in the first place)? If its similar to nolva then it will be raising my test a little which could possibly leave me with a little higher e2 once Im off? Ill have to look into that as well lol

  11. #11
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Kel? lol

  12. #12
    bdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heise1290 View Post
    Kel? lol
    Inside joke kelkel is a monitor, some refer to him as being able to vaccumm seal his skin lol crazy vascular.

  13. #13
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    I guess to put it more simply... R is going to bind to nearly all of my receptors causing breast tissue to burn off, but what happens when I discontinue use, will that tissue regrow when my receptors start to accept e2 again?

  14. #14
    bdos's Avatar
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    Your really jumping the gun, just diet your trying to cut corners do it properly and listen to these guys advise.

  15. #15
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Lol gotcha, I don't need to be at that extreme but improved vascularity and a near 8pack would be nice. My genetics don't seem to want me to get to that point lol

  16. #16
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    I am honestly not trying to cut corners, I have always busted my ass and put work ethic and diet first. I have no problem waiting to run a cycle as I stated. I have simply plateaued (but I now that working harder and dieting harder and patience will break a plateau) and that's fine with me. Im simply asking about getting rid of excess tissue in my chest and puffy nips lol as ive already waited too long id like to get on that asap.

  17. #17
    Back In Black's Avatar
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    The only way of per mantle removing the risk of gyno is by complete removal of the glands. Even through surgery this isn't a 100% guarantee. So yes, it is quite possible it will return. If raloxifene works then you can taper off for a few weeks when you are at a stage you are happy.

    As you have a year or 2 before you do your first cycle please do some research and use our search function. You will find all the answers there and learn other useful stuff along the way. If you only want to be lean then I'd argue AAS are not the answer for you anyway and that you should really be looking into thermogenics.

    Please, post your diet in the nutrition forum.
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  18. #18
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Don't get me wrong I am not Only trying to lean out. Basically trying to put on lbm, gain strength, and lose bf%
    I want to have my cake and eat it too lol. Im currently gaining my strength but slowly and gaining lbm slowly because I am not on a bulk and am sacrificing fast strength/mass gains. without actually cutting either lol. If that made any sense to you. Basically trying to put on 2 lbs of lbm a month and lose 1% bf in the next month.
    Okay will post my diet

  19. #19
    heise1290 is offline New Member
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    Ya I will give that a try and hopefully it works, and hopefully tapering will prevent the return if it does work. If not I will probably run letro before going under the knife. Thank you for giving me an alternative to try out in the meantime

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