How do I reverse this?

[yamaharacer03]

Hey everyone, I am new to this forum, I am looking for some advice, I will be completely honest with everyone that reads this and will say I did a cycle and I did it through a friend and never got the education that I wish I would have had. I have done quite a bit of reading, I have good knowledge now in biochem, endocrine...etc. I have a good endo who is on my side and understands completely. So I cycled 1 1/2 years ago, I was a skinny little dude, all my friends were bigger...etc....etc. Put on 22 lbs and feelin good about myself. I did the tamoxifen half ass and didnt give my body time to kick back in gear and noticed the symptoms of low testosterone and had my dr run it and sure enough I was right. So this leads me to my situation. I would like to cycle again here sometime soon. I am currently on androgel 1.62% 4 pumps a day (this is a complete replacement of testosterone for an average person) my LH and FSH are <0.7 which makes complete sense since my body is getting exogenous testosterone. I am young (25) and have met a great GF and well in 4 years I would like to have some munchkins runnin around. So back story complete....for my next and last cycle I want to do it the right way. In your opinion if I do a moderate intense cycle....is HcG for 10 days at 500IU then switch to clomid 40mg/ed x2 weeks then 20mg/ed x2 weeks then off good enough to reverse my iatrogenic hypogonadism? I really could use some education/first hand experience here. I really want to get my body to be natural again and produce its own testosterone and to be fertile again. With FSH and LH levels that low there is nothing going to by testicles to say make sperm and test. My background is healthcare and I am a student currently finishing my last year. I get it that 2 years ago I was insanely stupid, had all the wrong reasons to do what I was doing and yea I got results but please help me in getting back to being natural. Thanks I appreciate it. Oh and my doc said that after a year of trying to have kids he would put me on clomid but said its rarely covered by insurance. Thus leading me to talk to you guys because he said it is very expensive without insurance coverage and I know I can get it cheap.

[Rv8G30]

So he put you on trt for life without even at least trying a proper pct?

[yamaharacer03]

correct, at that point in my education i was unaware of how exactly this needed to be done. But at my last visit which was 2 weeks ago I discussed that I did not want to be on it anymore and he said that to have things covered by insurance one must try to have children for one year before anything will be covered by insurance which is his reasoning on why he cannot start me on the clomid unless I want to pay out of pocket for it which he said being in school I would not be able to afford it. My old FP doc put me on it right away and at that point my FSH and LH were both normal so in a way I am really kicking myself for going on trt when my levels were actually fine I just didnt give my body enough time to get my test back up which unfortunately just does not happen within a few days.

[Fllifter]

IMO I would try a full pct restart and not cycle any AAS

Nolva- 40/20/20/20/20/20
Clomid- 100/50/50/50

Almost do some research or dr scallys restart protocol. Good luck

[Bonaparte]

I would blast a few vials of HCG and run a heavy Torem PCT.
Don't go through your insurance and their guidelines.

[yamaharacer03]

in regards to the current testosterone that I am currently on? taper that off? Also time fram wise, i have 10 months of PA school left. Can I wait until i take my certification exam....low test is just terrible for concentration and working 12 hr days dx patients and treating them can get tiring as it is. Seriously though to everyone that has posted or will, you have no idea how thankful I am. I know medicine, but this is a little outside of my realm on an expertise level. Thanks!!!!!

[Rv8G30]

If you wait 10 months your only killing whatever small chance you have left. Either stop the trt, run a pct, then wait about 6 weeks and check bloodwork. Or just stay on trt. Not sure what other options you have.

[yamaharacer03]

so i would assume that by not stimulating testicular function during the cycle with HcG or properly doing the pct to keep LH and FSH from falling the chances of getting my system to come back is going to be pretty tough?
Would ten days of 1000 I/U of Hcg followed by Nolva- 40/20/20/20/20/20 and Clomid- 100/50/50/50 be a good start? and in regards to the androgel ....taper that from 4 pumps to 1 pump and stop and start HcG?

[Bonaparte]

If you can get it, get some HMG as well. It is expensive, bu it contains a bunch of the TSH component that HCG lacks.
Blast the hcg and hmg EOD at the highest sane dose that you can afford (I'd go with 1,000 and 75 IUs, respectively) while on the androgel at normal dose, then begin to taper down when you begin the SERMs. No matter what combo you go with, run them at a moderate dose (so as to avoid side effects) for around 8 weeks.

[Far from massive]

If you can get it, get some HMG as well. It is expensive, bu it contains a bunch of the TSH component that HCG lacks.
Blast the hcg and hmg EOD at the highest sane dose that you can afford (I'd go with 1,000 and 75 IUs, respectively) while on the androgel at normal dose, then begin to taper down when you begin the SERMs. No matter what combo you go with, run them at a moderate dose (so as to avoid side effects) for around 8 weeks.

Bonaparte's advice is always on time. While its tempting to wait, the longer you wait the less chance you have of getting a full cum-back (ohh that was bad) so by using this approach with the taper in combo with Torem ( Torem is a lot more friendly than many others) you should be able to lessen the suffering.

[yamaharacer03]

okay i understand everything so far, makes complete sense. so here would be the regimen for the 8 weeks plus the clomid and nolva
1000 IU of HCG EOD but will taper toward end of 8 weeks?
nolva- 40/20/20/20/20/20 and Clomid- 100/50/50/50 AFTER THE 8 WEEKS done/tapered of the HCG and androgel .
Androgel 4 pumps ED (will taper towards the end)
*I would taper the HCG and Androgel as I begin to start the clomid or nolva?

Is it asking to much to have one of you write out an 8 week regimen? Thanks a ton.

ONE PROBLEM! my source has everything but hmg and torem so i would be stuck to the HCG/NOLVA/CLOMID. Sources are hard to come by and obviously as a new member i absolutely do not expect anyone to reach out to me by any means.


sorry if I am confusing you guys, i thought managing diabetes and thyroid issues can be complex this can be pretty intense as well but I definitely understand the reasoning though.

[psychoink]

I was kinda in your same situation... a did a test only cycle because I had low T 417 to be exact and not really being educated on it.. didn't do any pct right after eventually did a test booster witj E blocker... my wife still got prego even with a test level of 417. No idea what my sperm count is... not sure if those go hand in hand... but it all worked out... I looking into doing another test only cycle only cuz my doc won't help me.

[Bonaparte]

okay i understand everything so far, makes complete sense. so here would be the regimen for the 8 weeks plus the clomid and nolva
1000 IU of HCG EOD but will taper toward end of 8 weeks?

nolva- 40/20/20/20/20/20 and Clomid- 100/50/50/50 AFTER THE 8 WEEKS done/tapered of the HCG and androgel .
Androgel 4 pumps ED (will taper towards the end)
*I would taper the HCG and Androgel as I begin to start the clomid or nolva?

Is it asking to much to have one of you write out an 8 week regimen? Thanks a ton.

ONE PROBLEM! my source has everything but hmg and torem so i would be stuck to the HCG/NOLVA/CLOMID. Sources are hard to come by and obviously as a new member i absolutely do not expect anyone to reach out to me by any means.


sorry if I am confusing you guys, i thought managing diabetes and thyroid issues can be complex this can be pretty intense as well but I definitely understand the reasoning though.

It would look like this:
Week 1: 4 pumps gel, 1000 IU hcg, 75 IU HMG
2: " "
3: " "
4: " "
5 2 pumps + SERMs (pick a moderate dose and stick with it)
6: " "
7: " "
8: " "
9: 1 pump gel, SERMs
10: " "
11: " "
12: SERMs alone
13: " "

Wait 6 weeks and get your T levels checked.

I would also run Aromasin throughout (maybe 12.5mg daily), both to prevent gyno while blasting the gonadotopins and to boost test.

[yamaharacer03]

much appreciated sir, will look into the hmg. did a little reading on it and the hcg together, sounds like i might be able to get back to where i was. Thanks everyone.