1st cycle ever - particular situation

[Dark_Ansem]

I would like to start my first cycle EVER. I've only been natural before.

Here are my stats

age: 24
height: 184cm
weight: 85kg
bf%: somewhere between 15% and 20%
training exp.: 6 years
cycle exp.: nothing! only took some clomid before.

Now, my problem is, that I have what is called "gynoid obesity". Medical evidence shows that people like me (pear-shaped), while being somewhat less prone to cardiovascular issues, have way too much estrogen flying around and hyperplastic fat cells, rather than hypertrophic ones (they grow in number, rather than in volume), and fat is burned more difficulty.

An important study of Umeå University has shown that people like me ca benefit from having a boost in testosterone , that is why I have decided to make the big jump, correcting what mother nature has done wrong. Also, my personal trainer suggested them to me after seeing that sticking to his diet at 101% and completing exercises properly would not yield the wanted results. I think this needs a bit more of effort on my part.

so, I'd like to start, considering this. I did (and I am still doing) my research, but results are confusing as for every positive feedback, there are 2 people who claim that AAS will lead one to suicide, or inevitably to nightmarish outcomes, such as the Guardian article of May 18th, 2008, by Craig Davidson, the writer (I'm no expert, but I can already spot serious mistakes in what this guy did, starting from cycle duration -16 weeks? seriously?).

Matter is, I can't inject (yet), as I still live with my parents and they are, erm, somewhat over-bearing.

all considered, what would you recommend to me?

[Capebuffalo]

Have blood work done. See where natty test is. You may not need a boost.

[Back In Black]

And maybe have your diet run through in our nutrition forum.

And list your cardio and workout plan in the same post.

[Dark_Ansem]

All gynoid people are clinically proven to have lower testosterone and progesterone level, and higher estrogen levels.
I actually went to an endocrinologist, but she simply had me remove my t-shirt and said everything was normal, and denied me the chance of a blood work.

I also wanted to start with PH, but I got bashed by people saying "why bother with ph, use directly aas". then I wanted to use AAS and I got bashed saying "AAS is EVIL, you know nothing about life etc".

[fit2bOld]

I'd see another doctor and get a full hormone panel. At this point you are only guessing. Being pear shaped and citing a study is not fact. Steroids are not going to miraculously change the shape of your body to broad shoulders and slim waist but rather a pear shape on steroids.

[MajorPectorial]

See a diff doctor n complain about that what citing the facts of your condition.

F'in hate docs crept a depressing only few of them who do actually care n want to help ppl. (Rant over)

[Dark_Ansem]

I'd see another doctor and get a full hormone panel. At this point you are only guessing. Being pear shaped and citing a study is not fact. Steroids are not going to miraculously change the shape of your body to broad shoulders and slim waist but rather a pear shape on steroids.

no, but they can help in developing broader shoulders.

[Times Roman]

All gynoid people are clinically proven to have lower testosterone and progesterone level, and higher estrogen levels.
I actually went to an endocrinologist, but she simply had me remove my t-shirt and said everything was normal, and denied me the chance of a blood work.

I also wanted to start with PH, but I got bashed by people saying "why bother with ph, use directly aas". then I wanted to use AAS and I got bashed saying "AAS is EVIL, you know nothing about life etc".

you can get your own personal blood panels taken at private md labs dot com

this should always be the starting point, your baseline so to speak.

I'm not going to bash you, as you're endocrine system is now probably fully mature.

I agree with Cape and Back in Black (haven't read the rest of this thread yet)

A good first cycle would be 500mg/week test c or e for 12 weeks. add an ai and remember to pct beginning two weeks after your last pin

If you do decide to begin cycling AAS, you should consider regular blood panels with a focus on keeping your RBC/Hematacrit levels within range, as these WILL go up with exogeneous test. And keep an eye on your E (hopefully your AI will control excess production). There are other things to consider.

If you want to be healthy later on in life, then you have to be intelligent with how you use steroids . and remember...

....grow into your cycles!

Good luck!
---Roman

[Dark_Ansem]

you can get your own personal blood panels taken at private md labs dot com

this should always be the starting point, your baseline so to speak.

I'm not going to bash you, as you're endocrine system is now probably fully mature.

I agree with Cape and Back in Black (haven't read the rest of this thread yet)

A good first cycle would be 500mg/week test c or e for 12 weeks. add an ai and remember to pct beginning two weeks after your last pin

If you do decide to begin cycling AAS, you should consider regular blood panels with a focus on keeping your RBC/Hematacrit levels within range, as these WILL go up with exogeneous test. And keep an eye on your E (hopefully your AI will control excess production). There are other things to consider.

If you want to be healthy later on in life, then you have to be intelligent with how you use steroids . and remember...

....grow into your cycles!

Good luck!
---Roman

I cannot use the website you mention, I live outside the US (Italy, to be more precise)
nor I can do injections, I don't know how and they would prove, well, problematic at best.
but thanks a lot.

[Times Roman]

I cannot use the website you mention, I live outside the US (Italy, to be more precise)
nor I can do injections, I don't know how and they would prove, well, problematic at best.
but thanks a lot.

Life Line Screenings
(866) 467-5105
Use a telephone to callCall Toll Free
(you can call and see if they can make a recommendation)

I don't read Italian, but you can check this:
CDI - Centro Diagnostico Italiano - Milano

Good luck!
---Roman

[Dark_Ansem]

Roman, again, thanks a lot, but that is in Milan, not only way off me, but that would solve little, as those exams are forbidden unless a physician prescribes them in Italy.

someone has given me a first "protocol idea", I'd like your opinions:

6 weeks dbol 20 to 30mg a day, if the dbol is good, you will make gains.
take 20mg nolva a day while on, and continue that in your PCT
PCT 100mg clomid for 3 week from last tab and keep the nolva in the mix a week longer than the clomid.

[Quester]

Not just because of your condition but getting your blood levels is the most important thing. Can you go to another "state" in the EU? You'll need to know your baseline blood levels, again because of your condition.

[drake4243]

Roman, again, thanks a lot, but that is in Milan, not only way off me, but that would solve little, as those exams are forbidden unless a physician prescribes them in Italy.

someone has given me a first "protocol idea", I'd like your opinions:

6 weeks dbol 20 to 30mg a day, if the dbol is good, you will make gains.
take 20mg nolva a day while on, and continue that in your PCT
PCT 100mg clomid for 3 week from last tab and keep the nolva in the mix a week longer than the clomid.

You can’t just run dbol that is going to hurt your test even more you would need to stack it with test and that is a bad first cycle. It should be what roman said test 500mg per week for 12 weeks. If you can’t inject test then you really should not cycle ever since all cycles need test with them. Not to mention Dbol is notorious for causing g gyno I don’t think it would help out those pears very much at all.

[Dark_Ansem]

I'm not sure how much it can cause gyno in me, since I've got surgery...

[Back In Black]

I'm not sure how much it can cause gyno in me, since I've got surgery...

Did they remove the full gland? Even if they left a tiny amount in there it can still return.

[Dark_Ansem]

AFAIK, yes, the full gland.

[qscgugcsq]

BW is a must especially in your condition of course I understand it may be really hard for you to get some. But return see your doc and don't let him choice. Tell him Exactly what you want in your bloodwork, if you show that you know what you want they will probably give it to you.

Plus, injection can easely be hide. It is not as obvious as some may think. you put everything in a box closed and you open it when you are sure to not be disturbed and you pin.
5 minute alone thats all you need.

So yes you can pin, and if you really don't wanna try, then don't cycle...

[Dark_Ansem]

I don't know how to do them...

[Dark_Ansem]

or rather, I am unsure I can do them properly.

[qscgugcsq]

http://forums.steroid.com/educationa...formation.html

Very easy thing to do.

[BBJT200]

You're better off using an AI than steroids with a condition like that.

I suffer from what's called aromatase excess syndrome, which results in something similar to your situation.

Way too high estrogen, resulting in a feminine body, mood swings, etc. It's like being a woman hormonally, but a male anatomically speaking.

I currently take 2.5mg letrozole and 50mg aromasin DAILY and it is the best thing I have ever done for myself.
This is not something that would fit 99.9% of people, but if you truly are a gynoid...I would implore you to look into AI's before steroids. You will very likely find that to be a much better solution.

BW is a must before you proceed. Find a way to get it done.

[qscgugcsq]

You're better off using an AI than steroids with a condition like that.

I suffer from what's called aromatase excess syndrome, which results in something similar to your situation.

Way too high estrogen, resulting in a feminine body, mood swings, etc. It's like being a woman hormonally, but a male anatomically speaking.

I currently take 2.5mg letrozole and 50mg aromasin DAILY and it is the best thing I have ever done for myself.
This is not something that would fit 99.9% of people, but if you truly are a gynoid...I would implore you to look into AI's before steroids. You will very likely find that to be a much better solution.

BW is a must before you proceed. Find a way to get it done.

Damn that's heavy dose right there... with that kind of protocol at what level your E2 is??

[BBJT200]

Damn that's heavy dose right there... with that kind of protocol at what level your E2 is??

That keeps me in the normal range for a healthy male.

[crazy mike]

That keeps me in the normal range for a healthy male.

........ .........crazy mike

[Dark_Ansem]

You're better off using an AI than steroids with a condition like that.

I suffer from what's called aromatase excess syndrome, which results in something similar to your situation.

Way too high estrogen, resulting in a feminine body, mood swings, etc. It's like being a woman hormonally, but a male anatomically speaking.

I currently take 2.5mg letrozole and 50mg aromasin DAILY and it is the best thing I have ever done for myself.
This is not something that would fit 99.9% of people, but if you truly are a gynoid...I would implore you to look into AI's before steroids. You will very likely find that to be a much better solution.

BW is a must before you proceed. Find a way to get it done.

BW= body weight?
AI actually were my first route, but for some reason I decided to discard them... I don't remember why.

those 2 are the most expensive ones :P

[BBJT200]

........ .........crazy mike

Hey Mike.

BW= body weight?
AI actually were my first route, but for some reason I decided to discard them... I don't remember why.

Heartburn? It goes away eventually. I used to get mad heartburn from letrozole ...but not at all anymore.
BW = bloodwork. You need to know where your total and free testosterone levels lie, as well as estrogen, prolactin, fsh, LH.

There is no magical overnight fix for this kind of an issue. Once you get your hormone levels to "Normal" it does not make you look normal instantly. That part takes quite a while, and its not really manageable by visual signs because of that. You need bloodwork to know if you're on the right track or not. There is no question in that.

[ChiveOn]

You're better off using an AI than steroids with a condition like that.

I suffer from what's called aromatase excess syndrome, which results in something similar to your situation.

Way too high estrogen, resulting in a feminine body, mood swings, etc. It's like being a woman hormonally, but a male anatomically speaking.

I currently take 2.5mg letrozole and 50mg aromasin DAILY and it is the best thing I have ever done for myself.
This is not something that would fit 99.9% of people, but if you truly are a gynoid...I would implore you to look into AI's before steroids. You will very likely find that to be a much better solution.

BW is a must before you proceed. Find a way to get it done.

Holy FVCK! That much Letro alone and I'm a lethargic sack of shit

[Dark_Ansem]

Hey Mike.



Heartburn? It goes away eventually. I used to get mad heartburn from letrozole ...but not at all anymore.
BW = bloodwork. You need to know where your total and free testosterone levels lie, as well as estrogen, prolactin, fsh, LH.

There is no magical overnight fix for this kind of an issue. Once you get your hormone levels to "Normal" it does not make you look normal instantly. That part takes quite a while, and its not really manageable by visual signs because of that. You need bloodwork to know if you're on the right track or not. There is no question in that.

of course. I am aware of that.
At least I can get those 2 via prescription. how long have you been running them?

ah, bloodwork.
I think my only chance is to have it done via a private institution.
Would I need to be off clen before a bloodwork?

[BBJT200]

Holy FVCK! That much Letro alone and I'm a lethargic sack of shit

It's an unusual disorder. We produce way too much of the aromatase enzyme, so a high dose of AI is needed to stay "normal"

of course. I am aware of that.
At least I can get those 2 via prescription. how long have you been running them?

ah, bloodwork.
I think my only chance is to have it done via a private institution.
Would I need to be off clen before a bloodwork?

I've been doing this for I think about two or three months now. Looks like you'll be needing to go to a private institution for your bloodwork, then. I'd recommend getting off of everything until you sort this issue out. Clen isn't going to help you if your estrogen levels are too high; nor will dieting, exercise, starvation, or any other method for weight loss. Extremely high estrogen levels make everything you do a waste of time. Trust me on that one, I spent years busting my ass to get nowhere.

[Dark_Ansem]

It's an unusual disorder. We produce way too much of the aromatase enzyme, so a high dose of AI is needed to stay "normal"

I've been doing this for I think about two or three months now. Looks like you'll be needing to go to a private institution for your bloodwork, then. I'd recommend getting off of everything until you sort this issue out. Clen isn't going to help you if your estrogen levels are too high; nor will dieting, exercise, starvation, or any other method for weight loss. Extremely high estrogen levels make everything you do a waste of time. Trust me on that one, I spent years busting my ass to get nowhere.

you mean, nothing at all? Not even actual AAS?

I cannot do this now anyway, not until tomorrow as everything is closed now.

what if, instead, I discover my levels are normal? would the AI you suggested help?

[BBJT200]

you mean, nothing at all? Not even actual AAS?

I cannot do this now anyway, not until tomorrow as everything is closed now.

what if, instead, I discover my levels are normal? would the AI you suggested help?

Correct. Nothing at all. Just stop taking shit until you figure out what's actually wrong. If you use AAS, it will skew your bloodwork and make it useless.

If you find high estrogen, low testosterone , it would be presumable that an AI would help.
If your levels are normal, then you have no disorder and need to learn how to diet and exercise properly to lose the weight.
This isn't an issue that you can fix overnight.

"I cannot do this now anyway, not until tomorrow as everything is closed now." I don't mean to be a jerk, but why is this even necessary to say? You've been living with this condition your whole life presumably, so it's not an emergency. Get the bloodwork when you can, and just chill out.

[Dark_Ansem]

Correct. Nothing at all. Just stop taking shit until you figure out what's actually wrong. If you use AAS, it will skew your bloodwork and make it useless.

If you find high estrogen, low testosterone , it would be presumable that an AI would help.
If your levels are normal, then you have no disorder and need to learn how to diet and exercise properly to lose the weight.
This isn't an issue that you can fix overnight.

"I cannot do this now anyway, not until tomorrow as everything is closed now." I don't mean to be a jerk, but why is this even necessary to say? You've been living with this condition your whole life presumably, so it's not an emergency. Get the bloodwork when you can, and just chill out.

yes, yes, no need to lecture me. I said it in order not to leave anything unsaid.

[Dark_Ansem]

Correct. Nothing at all. Just stop taking shit until you figure out what's actually wrong. If you use AAS, it will skew your bloodwork and make it useless.

If you find high estrogen, low testosterone , it would be presumable that an AI would help.
If your levels are normal, then you have no disorder and need to learn how to diet and exercise properly to lose the weight.
This isn't an issue that you can fix overnight.

"I cannot do this now anyway, not until tomorrow as everything is closed now." I don't mean to be a jerk, but why is this even necessary to say? You've been living with this condition your whole life presumably, so it's not an emergency. Get the bloodwork when you can, and just chill out.

can I still do this bloodwork if on Clenbuterol ?

[qscgugcsq]

I dont think it changes anyhing but clenbuterol create an useless stress on your body. You dont need that, it wont help you lose fat if you really have excess E2...

Youd better drop that gget bloodwork done and see after that.

But for now your are risking heart issue for nothing. Plus if really you have high E2 your heart already have a hard time... Their is no use at putting your self in very High blood pressure... Clenbuterol do nothing for you.