it never gets easy. researching is difficult. Tren-A+Test

[C3RB3RUS]

I got it... hehehehe

i'm seeing all kinds of shit on this stuff. i forgot how time consuming research is. doesn't seem to dissimilar to other cycles I've done. still waiting on my Test E. i have the option of getting sus 250, what do ya'all think? i've heard gains are better on T.E. but i'll loose a larger substantial portion than i would with SUS.

also, i have DBOL +the prohormone SD, should i feather in Test E. and Tren with this combo. my cycle is going to be as short as i can reasonably make it. i was told the bottle will last me 6 weeks. i'm not going to start this shit until my OCD allows me too, which could be a long time, so don't bother telling me how i fuked up. (seriously though, tell me if my thinking is fuked and i'll make corrections where i can) i haven't even done anything yet, but if you must give me lickens, i'll take my lickens. I officially invite every knowledgble member to yell at me. not that i need to make invites.

i'll re-post later with a whole planned out cycle on a different post after i do a little more research.

a few things i've looked at so far
Trenbolone - Steroid .com
Atomini's all-you-need-to-know about TREN and how to use it effectively thread!
Trenbolone - SteroidAbuse .com

I thought Atomini was a genius, why was he banned?

[Lunk1]

[C3RB3RUS]

did i do bad? eh, it's easier to learn getting yelled at then it is to spend hours reading. what did i do?

here's a suggestion that was given to me for Test E and DBOL . don't have straight DBOL though.

What are your goals? This is your first injectable cycle? If so, go with Test E. What dose are you planning on running?

You could do something like this:

1-4 Dbol: 40mg/ed
1-12 Test E 500mg/wk

Yes, it would be good to run HCG .

You don't need to run an AI with PCT

Not clear on your question, 'How many cycles in a vial'? Are you asking how many shots you can take from a 10ml bottle of test? If so, it depends on how many mg/ml your gear is. For example, if your gear is 250mg/ml, you can take 1 ml, twice a week to achive 500mg/wk. Make sense?

I'm concerned with your desire to blast and cruise. Do you plan on being on hrt?

to me that seems like a long ass cycle of anything. 3 fuking months, yikes.

in combination with Tren , how long would each (test e and Tren ace) have to be ran?

i'll just shut the hell up and go find out for myself if i'm being to annoying

[Lunk1]

I need the Rosetta Stone to decipher your post? What is your actual question?

[C3RB3RUS]

i'm just being an undisciplined rambling fuk. i'm also not being respectful of others time... i like to toss ideas out. there are a lot of solid factoids on Tren A, but there are also a lot of fools talking about it. i just want to know what you think of my thinking? the whole thing; the whole shabang. answer any specific question in here you want. they are all things i'm thinking about. i feel pretty safe with atomini's whole thread as a bible. i'm doing almost the exact same thing, only without caber, or HCG and i think that's it. he said that nolvadex was good to go on the PCT for my LH kickstart. i have clomid too. atomini hates clomid, but i like it.

i'm just looking for tid bits of knowledge. im mostly here to run my suck and maybe learn something new.

[Back In Black]

Continue to read.

When you have a plan write it out for critique. Legibly. And use paragraphs more often

[C3RB3RUS]

I need the Rosetta Stone to decipher your post? What is your actual question?

here is a specific question: can i start my cycle with DBOL +SDROL? and do i have to go on a 12 week cycle if i want to achieve anything such as strength, power and over all body comp/muscle size.

[C3RB3RUS]

Continue to read.

When you have a plan write it out for critique. Legibly. And use paragraphs more often

aye aye sir!

[lovbyts]

here is a specific question: can i start my cycle with DBOL+SDROL? and do i have to go on a 12 week cycle if i want to achieve anything such as strength, power and over all body comp/muscle size.

SDROL??? Sounds like a pro hormone? So what are you doing about Test? As said, start reading before you start taking anything.

[C3RB3RUS]

SDROL??? Sounds like a pro hormone? So what are you doing about Test? As said, start reading before you start taking anything.

i will. Test E is on back order, so was said. i guess since i'm the new guy no "dibs" for me for the first order. everything i've been reading thus far makes Test E the better sus 250 (another one of my options,) so i'm just waiting and reading.-and I thought the Tren was going to be iffy. makes sense that the Test E would get bought up quick.

sdrol/superdrol is powerful oral designer steroid . it's hard on the liver. the version i have is a weakened clone.

happy holidays

[Back In Black]

Forget the tren , you've had enough problems in the past with PH's I seem to recall so you should forget them as well.

[lovbyts]

OK yes pro hormone. I would give it a pass. If this is 1st cycle then put the tren away. If this is 2nd cycle put the tren away. If this is 3rd cycle put the tren away and start learning more about it for the near future.

[C3RB3RUS]

Forget the tren, you've had enough problems in the past with PH's I seem to recall so you should forget them as well.

OK yes pro hormone. I would give it a pass. If this is 1st cycle then put the tren away. If this is 2nd cycle put the tren away. If this is 3rd cycle put the tren away and start learning more about it for the near future.

what, everything has been fine, concerning prohormones. this board just hates prohormones. my last cycle was awesome, but i'm done with PH, mostly. oh no, me and the tren are going for a little ride along with my other friend test E.

i see what you're both saying and i'll strongly consider it. i will. i was initially just going to run Test E alone, but after doing some reading, decided that wouldn't be such a great idea.

[Back In Black]

So, you have been training properly (bb'ing) less than 6 months.

Have no previous injectable cycles and are going to run tren .

Think you have gyno and have discharge from your nipples but are going to cycle and include tren

Have lots and lots of odd 'fvck it I'm giving up' stories because you lose your gains and get fat etc.

Good luck with that tren kidda, you're right test e as a virgin cycle would be a terrible idea. You are clearly more learned than the most learned folk here. Go to the top of the class.

[lovbyts]

Ive have seen/read more horror stories from PH users than test users. If you have had good luck then more luck to you. I personally wont touch them. I have heard people say they have had good strength gains but not much in size gains. I'm not interested much in strength since blowing the shoulders out personally.

Why wouldn't running Test E alone be a good idea? Where did you read this?

[Java Man]

If you have taken prohormones before, and it sounds like you have, what did your pre and post cycle bloodwork look like?

Prohormones are chemically a step or two away from the active drug you seek to reap the benefits of. Your liver does the conversion, then also metabolizes the final resultant drug. Theoretically this puts extra stress on the liver you wouldn't have if you took the actual drug you wanted to take but couldn't get. There is always a danger involved in that every body has different levels of various enzymes, some people even lack certain enzymes and therefore process (or not) each one uniquely. Some might even turn into a compound that may be harmful.

They(PH) are legal because:
a. They can be sold as supplements, not subject to FDA scrutiny and
b. They are altered enough to get around the controlled substances analogue act.
That does not mean they are safe to eat.

precursors. That is the extent of my knowledge of PH.

LOL, LB - but wait! There's more! With Precursors you not only get the 2 sets of partially modified molecules, but for the next 5 callers we will add one more - SuperDROL! Absolutely FREE! at no cost to you, the consumer. No warranty is expressed or implied as the efficacy, results be they positive or negative in nature, or harm that may or may not be the result of such use of our 'supplements' and we the makers of SuperDROL cannot be held liable for any outcome. That's a period folks! Any Outcome at all!

Humor break. Back to serious ol' Java.
Pro-hormones are shit IMO. More harmful than the compound you should be taking, the real deal as it were. I'd love to see a tox screen before and after such a run. Vitals, Liver function, kidney function, lipids, hormone panels, the works. And compare that as Anadrol vs Superdrol effects on bodily organs and the HPTA. The real deal vs. the Near Beer. To be fair, I'd also like to see the week by week LBM vs Fat gain charts side by side. It would be damned interesting to say the least.

[Java Man]

need to get to my big box, so I can do some serious ass reaming in real time mwahahaha! j/k. I do need to get on my full size box though. Cant' do this on my phone.

[Java Man]

Lay out your stats DJB.

Age:
SERIOUS Training Time (not playing racquetball, soccer, football, etc. -- Hardcore Weight Training I mean):
Height:
Weight:
Prev. Cycle Exp:
Compounds Used:
Meds you take daily (Contraindications?)
Any medical issues that require maintenance drugs?:
These things all matter.

And a few pics to gauge BF% and overall fitness level / physique level

[C3RB3RUS]

So, you have been training properly (bb'ing) less than 6 months.

Have no previous injectable cycles and are going to run tren .

Think you have gyno and have discharge from your nipples but are going to cycle and include tren

Have lots and lots of odd 'fvck it I'm giving up' stories because you lose your gains and get fat etc.

Good luck with that tren kidda, you're right test e as a virgin cycle would be a terrible idea. You are clearly more learned than the most learned folk here. Go to the top of the class.

yes, you have a point about what i've written. i don't have gyno. you could call them "fvck it i'm giving up, but that's not what i did. there aren't exactly lots of posts like that. a lot of people say that no steroid gains are able to be kept. i'm not exactly fat and i've been training a lot longer than 6 months. i do things my own thanks

[C3RB3RUS]

Ive have seen/read more horror stories from PH users than test users. If you have had good luck then more luck to you. I personally wont touch them. I have heard people say they have had good strength gains but not much in size gains. I'm not interested much in strength since blowing the shoulders out personally.

Why wouldn't running Test E alone be a good idea? Where did you read this?

yea, i'm more interested in looking good too. PH do give great strength gains, no kept size. i need to get a little bigger in a few places

[Java Man]

I could get a little smaller in a few places, well, one place. She said it hurts her.

[Back In Black]

yes, you have a point about what i've written. i don't have gyno. you could call them "fvck it i'm giving up, but that's not what i did. there aren't exactly lots of posts like that. a lot of people say that no steroid gains are able to be kept. i'm not exactly fat and i've been training a lot longer than 6 months. i do things my own thanks

I said bb training. I know you were doing crossfit before that.

Keep doing things your own way buddy, you know best.

[Java Man]

No Matter what supp you do, even none, if you gain and then lose it you are not eating to maintain that new mass. period. Until you get that aspect of your whole approach corrected you will always be stuck in that circle of growth and shrink. After you put your stats out I can give a better tailored answer, leaving the smart ass in the car.

[C3RB3RUS]

Age: 30
SERIOUS Training Time 2009 july-2010 march oct 2010-now. i've been working my ass off at work. i have only 5 days off this month and i've already taken 3 of them.
Height: 69"
Weight: 186lb
Prev. Cycle Exp: 1. M1AD, 2. superdrol/haladrol/epistane, 3. dymethazine. 4. superdrol 5. ultradrol/dianbol
Compounds Used: albuterol, clomid, pramipexole, nolvadex , stane
Meds you take daily (Contraindications/none)
Any medical issues that require maintenance drugs?: none
These things all matter.
my last bloods were done about 2 months after my pct ended, sep. that was here they are:
Bun 22 (7-24) mg/dl
creat 1.00 (0.6-1.4) mg/dl
na+ 139 (136-135) mmol/l
k 3.9 (3.6-5.2) mmol/l
cl- 103 (100-108) mmol/l
hco3 30 (21-32) mmol/l
ca 9.2 (8.5-10.1) mg/dl
protein total 7.3 (6.4-8.2) g/dl
albumin 3.8 (3.4-5.0) g/dl
ast 23 (12-58) u/l
alt 35 (12-78) units/l
alt phos 103 (50-136) u/l
tbili 0.3 (0.2-1.0) mg/dl
anion gap 6.0 (5.0-15.0)
gfr-naa 100.5 ml/min
gfr-aa 116.2 ml/min

interpretations:
>=60 ml/min/1.73m2 = normal or mildly decreased gfr
30-59 ml/min/1.73m2 = moderately decreased gfr
15-29 ml/min/1.73m2 = severely decreased gfr
<15 ml/min/1.73m2 = kidney failure

estradiol 32 pg/ml
referance range for males (11-44)

testos free 96.7 (35-155) pg/ml
testos total 615 (250-1100) ng/dl

[C3RB3RUS]

I said bb training. I know you were doing crossfit before that.

Keep doing things your own way buddy, you know best.

cross fit? i don't like that crap. yes, i had to loose weight, i have a test soon. when was the last time you ran 3 miles in 22 mins flat? i have to do stuff like that in the morning and throughout the year, what i do during lunch and after work is up to me. i've made great gains while i've been in the military. i'm pretty happy with the progress i've been able to make. faster stronger faster stronger faster stronger. that's the idea, solid permanent mass and i have wheels. i used to weigh 153lb lol. i have to work with what i'm allowed to work with.

[Java Man]

Excellent.

Java Man is Pondering and factoring a solution. Please be patient. Protein Bars and Whey Isolate Shakes for all in the lobby.

[Java Man]

Estimated BF%?

[Back In Black]

cross fit? i don't like that crap. yes, i had to loose weight, i have a test soon. when was the last time you ran 3 miles in 22 mins flat? i have to do stuff like that in the morning and throughout the year, what i do during lunch and after work is up to me. i've made great gains while i've been in the military. i'm pretty happy with the progress i've been able to make. faster stronger faster stronger faster stronger. that's the idea, solid permanent mass and i have wheels. i used to weigh 153lb lol. i have to work with what i'm allowed to work with.

Doesn't mean you didn't do it. You posted this only 6 months ago

1. I need help with dosages. just look at what i have going and let me know if i need to go up or down
considering what i'm taking. sorry about the format of presentation. the spam software is horrible

2. I feel like cooked garbage. Please let me know what i can do to not feel like cooked garbage.

3. also, i'm aware that if I start eating tons right away then I can get sick. well already feel like crap from
eating to much and not going number 2 enough

4. also, like a fool, and i'm ashamed to admit this the only kind of physical training I've been
doing prior is running and a ton of cross fit. I Hit the Gym twice yesterday triceps biceps and
forearms then quads hams and calfs and I am as sore as a whore after pay day! i'm going to the gym
tonight to do a chest routine.

Here are my amounts:

Anabolic blend of Ultradrol and Trendione 25 m g per serving;
i'm taking two pills a day.


supporters:
Prami .4 m g a day
stane 6.25 m g a day
liver juice 2 table spoons a day
a liquid joint supplement 2 table spoons a day
a gallon of water a day

Why the fvck do i wanna run a mile in 3.22?

And if you think you can do cardio on tren .............

[Java Man]

Age: 30 | SERIOUS Training Time	2009 july-2010 march oct 2010-now - 0.75Y in 09-2010, 2.3 Yrs 2010 - 2013
Height:	69" (5' 9")
Weight:	186lb
Prev. Cycle Exp:	1. M1AD, 2. superdrol/haladrol/epistane, 3. dymethazine. 4. superdrol 5. ultradrol/dianbol
Compounds Used:	albuterol, clomid, pramipexole, nolvadex , stane
my last bloods were done about 2 months after my pct ended, sep. that was here they are:
Bun 22 (7-24) mg/dl	BUN is a little high but I wouldn' be alarmed unless it rises steadily over time.
creat 1.00 (0.6-1.4) mg/dl	good
na+ 139 (136-135) mmol/l	Sodium is high. Drink an extra 2-3 quarts of water daily.
k 3.9 (3.6-5.2) mmol/l	Potassium a bt low. Eat a banana daily.Nuts. Fruits.
cl- 103 (100-108) mmol/l	good
hco3 30 (21-32) mmol/l	good
ca 9.2 (8.5-10.1) mg/dl	good
protein total 7.3 (6.4-8.2) g/dl	good
albumin 3.8 (3.4-5.0) g/dl	good
ast 23 (12-58) u/l	good
alt 35 (12-78) units/l	good
alt phos 103 (50-136) u/l	good
tbili 0.3 (0.2-1.0) mg/dl	low
anion gap 6.0 (5.0-15.0)	Low/Good - get more albumin and this nunber will come up
gfr-naa 100.5 ml/min	OK
gfr-aa 116.2 ml/min	OK
interpretations:
>=60 ml/min/1.73m2 = normal or mildly decreased gfr
30-59 ml/min/1.73m2 = moderately decreased gfr
15-29 ml/min/1.73m2 = severely decreased gfr
<15 ml/min/1.73m2 = kidney failure
estradiol 32 pg/ml	Looks good to me here. No higher though. I'd watch this. Control if nevessary in baby steps.
referance range for males (11-44)
testos free 96.7 (35-155) pg/ml	mid-low end. 120-140 would be better,
testos total 615 (250-1100) ng/dl	Not bad. I like to be around 900-1000+ but you're good for natural numbers on t.

[Java Man]

What is your current BF% DefyJoeBoo?

[Java Man]

Test is Test.
If you have Sust that's just 4 esters of varying lengths, you can use it. You can forgo the use of an oral in that case. assuming you have Sust 250, not 100:

30 mg testosterone propionate - 2 days
60 mg testosterone phenylpropionate - 4.5 days
60 mg testosterone isocaproate - 9 Days
100 mg testosterone decanoate - 15 days

The first 2 esters will metabolize within the first 48 hours. The last 2 stay in your system for 10-15 more days.

With SUST, I always shot 500 every 4th day. I got great results. I used Sust a lot back in the day because I lived near Mexico and could go get it whenever.
With what you had proposed, I'd say this:

Dbol = Save for another day
Sust = 250mg e4d
HCG = 300iu e3d (youll need two 5K vials fir a 12 week run)
AI of choice
or
Dbol = Save for another day
Test E = 250mg e3.5d
HCG = 300iu e3d (youll need two 5K vials fir a 12 week run), from day 1 through 3 days before you are to begin PCT.
AI of choice

Wait 15 days after last shot, then PCT:
Clomid/Nolvadex
wk 1) 100/40
wk 2) 50/40
wk 3) 50/40
wk 4) 25/20
wk 5) 25/20
wk 6) 25/20
12 weeks is standard to get maximum benefit/reward out of it. These are long esters. It will take 3 weeks just to get the initial kick in. You'll need the next two months for growth.
No Tren for you this time around. You don't need it. You will get great gains form the cycle above if you eat like a mountain troll and train like one too.

Meanwhile, read everything you can about tren. Get liver lipid, and kidney tests. Check your endocrines when you come off pct.

[fit2bOld]

DJB if you spent as much time on learning to eat and train properly as you do tossing around all these crazy ideas you'd be huge already.

[Back In Black]

Java, are you suggesting test e at 1g Or sust at about 750mg per week? For a first injectable cycle?

Just checking.

[Java Man]

Java, are you suggesting test e at 1g Or sust at about 750mg per week? For a first injectable cycle?

Just checking.

DOH! No that's 500 div into 2 inj on different days. lol. I'll correct.

Fixed. I must have been giving him MY protocol subconciously :0

[Back In Black]

DOH! No that's 500 div into 2 inj on different days. lol. I'll correct.

Fixed. I must have been giving him MY protocol subconciously :0

As I said, just checking

[Java Man]

As I said, just checking

GLad you did, I would not want a first timer doing that.

[C3RB3RUS]

What is your current BF% DefyJoeBoo?

im going to get a BF analysis done in a hydro unit in a few days, or whenever i can get some time off work.
last time i was looked at, my BF was calculated using my, height, waist size, weight, and neck girth. i was told that i'm at ___
MY BAD! just measured myself using the method i described above. i'm 16%bf. I have my own tape and i know how to measure where

Question. i've been on a low insulin response diet to loose fat. tomorrow is my cheat day, should i take it? eating foods that have a low G/I has been easy for me. i would eat brown rice to shock my system a bit.

[C3RB3RUS]

DJB if you spent as much time on learning to eat and train properly as you do tossing around all these crazy ideas you'd be huge already.

true, i really want to get thinner skin though. all my trouble these days comes from my weight maximum and BF. i don't want to get anywhere near fat. i don't want to bulk anymore. I'm 16% BF. i want to get cut up like i used to be.

i'll save the Tren for sure. it's going to be hard though. we'll see how things go with the test E. i'm excited.

question: what is Tren's shelf life?

[Java Man]

Stored in a cool, dark place? Years.

[C3RB3RUS]

Excellent