minimum amount of T per week to gain significant (1st cycle)

[proteinshake1992]

Hi,

What would be the minimum amount of T to take per week for a first cycle?
I read people saying 400mg but the reason I'm asking is because the lower you begin the longer you can benefit from low doses, right?

Greets, and sorry if this is the wrong section. I'm new in town.

[austinite]

You're probably using UGL gear, so stick to 500 mg. That's not a high dose at all.

"The lower you begin the longer you can benefit"

Not true.

[proteinshake1992]

That would probably be the case.
But if it's pharmaceutical could it be lower then 500mg?

And also in case of an proprionate can you run less then 500mg?

[austinite]

Yeah sure. 350 to 400 is fine. But your reasoning is nonsensical to be honest. You can run prop at 100 EOD.

[proteinshake1992]

Not true.

So it is not correct that it's smarter (more effective in therms of buildinh muscle) to begin very low and gradually build your doses upeach cycle?

[proteinshake1992]

But your reasoning is nonsensical to be honest.

I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. Although I don't understand what part of what I said is so strange?

[austinite]

"The lower you begin the longer you can benefit"

This. based on what? Where did you get this ideology from?

[proteinshake1992]

You probably mean what I said about starting low and benefiting freem low doses.

Well what I learned so far is that androgen receptors decrease (or become les sensitive) while cycling. Which would theoretically mean you have to increase your doses every time you cycle.
Please tell me if this is bull and if so what is actually up..

[>Good Luck<]

So it is not correct that it's smarter (more effective in therms of buildinh muscle) to begin very low and gradually build your doses upeach cycle?

No its not correct.

This is how it works:

500mg weekly test e or c
10-12 weeks
You need an ai
You need hcg
You need pct

You DONT need to increase dose every cycle
You DONT need to overthink it
Keep it simple until your gains slow down from test only... maybe 4-5 cycles at 500mg will continue to yeild gains

[austinite]

You probably mean what I said about starting low and benefiting freem low doses.

Well what I learned so far is that androgen receptors decrease (or become les sensitive) while cycling. Which would theoretically mean you have to increase your doses every time you cycle.
Please tell me if this is bull and if so what is actually up..

Not true.

[MuscleInk]

You probably mean what I said about starting low and benefiting freem low doses.

Well what I learned so far is that androgen receptors decrease (or become les sensitive) while cycling. Which would theoretically mean you have to increase your doses every time you cycle.
Please tell me if this is bull and if so what is actually up..

Proteinshake,

What you might be referring to is "tolerance". This is not an issue if you cycle on and off appropriately. It's the same challenge with any drug. The longer you use, the less effective the original starting dose becomes. So, if you take one 200mg tablet of Motrin per day, every day, in time, your body develops some tolerance to that dose meaning a 200mg tablet will be less effective over time with continual (daily) administration than if you only use it as needed.

Hormones don't work exactly the same way, however, if you were to use 500mg of testosterone EOD for a year, you may find diminished returns/benefits over time unless you cycle on and cycle off appropriately. Additionally you could increase the risk of negative effects using supraphysiological levels.

Starting at a lower dose won't necessarily provide any greater benefit because you would be shutting down your natural levels and replacing it with a synthetic hormone at levels near natural levels (assuming a normal healthy male). There is really no need to dose escalate to prevent this. Simply cycle on and off as directed.

[proteinshake1992]

Ok thanks again for your replies! Really appreciate it.

But still, if I'm incorrect about androgen receptors decreasing (or becoming less sensetive) then why would you have to increase mg's at all at some point in time?

Something in your body happens which requires an increase in doses somewhere in time. What is that?
Otherwise everyone would be able to keep gaining from 500mg's

[MuscleInk]

Ok thanks again for your replies! Really appreciate it.

But still, if I'm incorrect about androgen receptors decreasing (or becoming less sensetive) then why would you have to increase mg's at all at some point in time?

Something in your body happens which requires an increase in doses somewhere in time. What is that?
Otherwise everyone would be able to keep gaining from 500mg's

See my prior response.

[proteinshake1992]

See my prior response.

Excuse me, I'm working from my mobile phone so texting takes relatively long. Didn't saw your answer before posting that q.
Thanks a lot so far!

[MuscleInk]

Excuse me, I'm working from my mobile phone so texting takes relatively long. Didn't saw your answer before posting that q.
Thanks a lot so far!

No problem.

[proteinshake1992]

No its not correct.

This is how it works:

500mg weekly test e or c
10-12 weeks
You need an ai
You need hcg
You need pct

You DONT need to increase dose every cycle
You DONT need to overthink it
Keep it simple until your gains slow down from test only... maybe 4-5 cycles at 500mg will continue to yeild gains

Very clear, however what would be an ideal interval between those "the same cycles" to keep sensetive to the dose? (How much time of in between these cycles?)

[>Good Luck<]

Very clear, however what would be an ideal interval between those "the same cycles" to keep sensetive to the dose? (How much time of in between these cycles?)

Time on + pct = time off is a general rule of thumb. Example would be:

12 week cycle test e
2 week wait til pct
4week pct

Therefore time off = 18 weeks

Better than that would be to get bloodwork done 6-12 weeks after pct and make sure levels are back in range.

[MuscleInk]

Very clear, however what would be an ideal interval between those "the same cycles" to keep sensetive to the dose? (How much time of in between these cycles?)

Minimum time off should be length of time in + PCT.

So if you cycle 12 weeks and PCT 4 weeks, time off between each cycle should be no less than 16 weeks.

[proteinshake1992]

Bro's thanks a lot again for the quick responses. However one of you is stating a pause of 2 weeks between the cycle and pct. What's up with that and why would I choose to do this (or not)

[proteinshake1992]

Further, when I start cycling I'm not trying to cycle on and of as fast and much as possible as I can. (one or two cycles a year)

So my question is: if my pct is in check and if my diet is in check will I keep all the solid muscle gains? (water will ofcource be lost) without the need to start another cycle as fast as possible?

[>Good Luck<]

Further, when I start cycling I'm not trying to cycle on and of as fast and much as possible as I can. (one or two cycles a year)

So my question is: if my pct is in check and if my diet is in check will I keep all the solid muscle gains? (water will ofcource be lost) without the need to start another cycle as fast as possible?

Ill be honest and say I doubt you'll keep all of your gains. There are many possibilities and hopes when we first cycle but reality is just that. Reality. You can't predict but you can prepare. The better you are prepared, and the more strictly you adhear to the plan- the better the odds you'll keep some gains.
Point being, its all up to you how this all ends up. You know, after the cycle, keeping gains, recovering, the rest of your life, etc..

Good luck!

[Hazard]

Once you get past your body's natural limit..... Meaning the highest point ur body can obtain naturally..... You really won't be able to hold onto anymore without exogenous hormone usage.

You also have to remember that when you come off and start pct - your natural test levels are in the dirt. They don't just rebound in a day. So you will be fighting an uphill battle trying to retain your gains with extremely low test levels.

[austinite]

Once you get past your body's natural limit..... Meaning the highest point ur body can obtain naturally..... You really won't be able to hold onto anymore without exogenous hormone usage.

You also have to remember that when you come off and start pct - your natural test levels are in the dirt. They don't just rebound in a day. So you will be fighting an uphill battle trying to retain your gains with extremely low test levels.

Yep. Agreed.