21 year old looking for advice

[whitdrago0]

Hi, im 21 looking into taking steroids . I have done my research on them, and know the side effects and how to take them. I am looking for advice on which steroids are best for bulking. Im 6'1" and 152lbs at 8.2% BF. I have been skinny all my life, but i have gained 30 lbs over the last 3 years. I have been lifting for coming up on 5 years now. My doctor reccommended steroids, but cannot perscribe them to me because my test levels are normal. What is a good cycle that doesnt include D-bol? I wanna do injectables, so if possible can anyone tell me good cycles with those? I wanna do a single 12 week cycle just incase anyone was woundering. I have a strict diet of 33% prot, 45% carbs, and rest fats. I get about 3000-3500 calories a day. I am looking into steroids because my doctor says i have an extremely high metabolism, and this will help me size. any other questions feel free to ask, and I will answer.

Thanks,
Grant

[ac419]

Test e 500mg per week

[>Good Luck<]

Hi, im 21 looking into taking steroids . I have done my research on them, and know the side effects and how to take them. I am looking for advice on which steroids are best for bulking. Im 6'1" and 152lbs at 8.2% BF. I have been skinny all my life, but i have gained 30 lbs over the last 3 years. I have been lifting for coming up on 5 years now. My doctor reccommended steroids, but cannot perscribe them to me because my test levels are normal. What is a good cycle that doesnt include D-bol? I wanna do injectables, so if possible can anyone tell me good cycles with those? I wanna do a single 12 week cycle just incase anyone was woundering. any other questions feel free to ask, and I will answer.

Thanks,
Grant

Grant, please understand that your problem is food, not drugs. At your age, regardless of how much an idiot your doctor is....you don't want to be messing with your hormones. They may never recover and you'll be married to the syringes for life!!!! Its not worth the few pounds you'll get. If you start working on your diet now, in 4 years when your hormones are fully matured, you would be ready to consider gear. If you learn about dieting, and eating to grow, youll be better off any way. Take advantage of your natural production, which is still high at your age.

>good luck<
"He who can take advice is sometimes superior to those who give it"

[bass]

Test e 500mg per week

bad advice...

[bass]

Grant, please understand that your problem is food, not drugs. At your age, regardless of how much an idiot your doctor is....you don't want to be messing with your hormones. They may never recover and you'll be married to the syringes for life!!!! Its not worth the few pounds you'll get. If you start working on your diet now, in 4 years when your hormones are fully matured, you would be ready to consider gear. If you learn about dieting, and eating to grow, youll be better off any way. Take advantage of your natural production, which is still high at your age.

>good luck<
"He who can take advice is sometimes superior to those who give it"

^^^ Great advice.

also read this,

The Young and Steroids

and this,

So you wanna learn how to Diet?

[marcus300]

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

[Back In Black]

bad advice...

It came from a 21 year old who is running test e having ran anadrol only as his first cycle. Not really the right person to give advice, is he?!

[DontTaseMeBro]

At this point, the best cycle is probably as follows:
1. Diet
2. Train
3. Learn

It looks like you're pretty thin. There is a lot of info on the nutrition forum that will help you add a lot of lean muscle mass without adding too much fat. Welcome, and good luck with your training. People here are really helpful.

[bass]

It came from a 21 year old who is running test e having ran anadrol only as his first cycle. Not really the right person to give advice, is he?!

well there you go...

[Bonaparte]

I really doubt your doctor recommended you use black market steroids ...(unless by "doctor", you mean some guy in your gym that passed Anatomy and Physiology with a C).

You just need to eat more. If 3,500 cals isn't cutting it, bump it up to 4,000.

[whitdrago0]

i know the risks, and have studied nutrition. I eat 6-7 meals a day, and have have blood work done with 690 total test and 160 free test. I know how to train. Can you give me advice on this besides dont do it? thank you for the other info. BTW the 3500 cals is just food. and extra 1000 from weight gain protien drinks a day. and it was a legit doctor just didnt say black market roids....

[MuscleInk]

I really doubt your doctor recommended you use black market steroids ...(unless by "doctor", you mean some guy in your gym that passed Anatomy and Physiology with a C).

You just need to eat more. If 3,500 cals isn't cutting it, bump it up to 4,000.

^^^Exactly! I laughed pretty hard at the part about his doctor. No way a doctor will suggest a patient take illegal substances. How dense do you think we are on here?????

[MuscleInk]

i know the risks, and have studied nutrition. I eat 6-7 meals a day, and have have blood work done with 690 total test and 160 free test. I know how to train. Can you give me advice on this besides dont do it? thank you for the other info. BTW the 3500 cals is just food. and extra 1000 from weight gain protien drinks a day. and it was a legit doctor just didnt say black market roids....

Weight gain shakes are sugary crap. Anyone with knowledge on nutrition knows nothing replaces a good diet and certainly not those mass gainer products you are being conned into using.

How about you list all the side effects you are aware of?

If you've done research, how is it you don't know what and how much to use?

Educate before you medicate. We aren't going to do it for you.

[whitdrago0]

i dont think you are, but he was trying to help me with a real low dose to help bone and muscle growth, but my test is normal so i was denied

[whitdrago0]

do you want side effects just from the drug or not properly taking the right steps along with gear? because it can cause: gyno, depression, death, suicidal tendencies, damage of liver and kidneys, damage the heart, fatty tissue around liver, could develop jaundice, low sperm count.... how deep do you want me to take this? I know you inject into the butt because of fatty tissue. its more of i dont know what dosage for my body weight i should/want to take.

[whitdrago0]

btw i know you guys aren't trying to bash me in saying im to you, and turn me away from this but after the research i have done, i just thought that a kick start would be helpful. not trying to sound ignorant, but i do know what then can do. if taken recommended doses side effects can sometime not even occur.... not saying they will but there is a lot you can do to stop them...

[MuscleInk]

btw i know you guys aren't trying to bash me in saying im to you, and turn me away from this but after the research i have done, i just thought that a kick start would be helpful. not trying to sound ignorant, but i do know what then can do. if taken recommended doses side effects can sometime not even occur.... not saying they will but there is a lot you can do to stop them...

It's good to see you are applying yourself and trying to learn as much as possible. The reason we generally discourage younger guys (under 25) is that cycling anabolics when your neuroendocrine system may not have finished its development, could lead to some long term problems. The hormones in your body regulate so many necessary functions (immunity, memory, appetite, mood, growth, digestion, sex drive, sleep and wakefulness, and MORE) and shutting down your HTPA with steroids before it has finished growing could have serious consequences. We currently have several guys who cycled at your age and now, can't get erections, have little to no sex drive, are depressed, anxious, and struggle to maintain a healthy body weight to muscle mass ratio. Does this happen every time? No? Could it happen to you? Yes. Will it happen to you? No one can give you any guarantee one way or another. Nutrition is far more important. If you are eating below your TDEE, you won't see any significant changes. Nutrition is everything and steroids will not correct a poor nutrition plan. You have to eat (a lot) to grow.

One thing I should correct.....injections are done intramuscularly. When you inject in your glute, you want to inject in the MUSCLE, not the fat.

[whitdrago0]

damn i thought fat was better thanks for the correction. and my TDEE is 1869.6. i get over double that. my metabolism is extremely high. there is stuf to take after and during a cycle to fight the listed side effects you listed above for an improved chance of not getting them.

[whitdrago0]

btw idk if this helps but my body reacts and conforms back to normal pretty good seeing as how i have stacked Ph's before. Not that i am comparing them together, just saying

[Back In Black]

As Bonaprte says, eat more.

If you can't grow off gear you won't grow and/or maintain off gear.

Detail the 3500 cals you ate yesterday please.

[DontTaseMeBro]

Marcus, Bass and MuscleInk are really trying to help you avoid becoming one of the bad statistics - a guy under 30 on HRT for life. If you are dead set on taking the chance with AAS at this time despite the many knowledgeable recommendations to wait, then the information you need for a first cycle is already here and easily accessible to you. Do not even attempt it until you have researched much more and have all your ancillaries and PCT on hand. In doing so, just consider that you will be going against the advice of some legit guys with like 100+ yrs of combined experience (and one old guy that likes lifting and has made a mistake or two). Welcome and happy training.

[whitdrago0]

6 hard boiled eggs 2 peanut butter sandwiches and a 16 oz glass of whole milk. 2 tuna fish sandwiches, 16 oz chocolate milk, 8 oz white rice, protein bar, 12oz steak with a cup of baked baked beans another 16 oz glass of chocolate milk. 1 cup of spaghetti and 16 oz glass of whole milk. peanut butter bagle and 16 oz whole milk. then 2 more tuna fish sandwiches and milk before bed

[whitdrago0]

Marcus, Bass and MuscleInk are really trying to help you avoid becoming one of the bad statistics - a guy under 30 on HRT for life. If you are dead set on taking the chance with AAS at this time despite the many knowledgeable recommendations to wait, then the information you need for a first cycle is already here and easily accessible to you. Do not even attempt it until you have researched much more and have all your ancillaries and PCT on hand. In doing so, just consider that you will be going against the advice of some legit guys with like 100+ yrs of combined experience (and one old guy that likes lifting and has made a mistake or two). Welcome and happy training.

im not against waiting, and im not dense. i would get that if i did end up going that route. I just here trying to ask questions and get corrected if im wrong.

[Bonaparte]

You diet pretty much consists of milk and little sandwiches. That's fine for a 10 year old, but lacking for someone thinking about using steroids .
And if you have a fast metabolism, then your TDEE is much higher than 1,869. That number is calculated for someone with a much slower metabolism than yourself, or you'd be gaining like 2 pounds per week (going to your calorie claims).
There is no such thing as a metabolism that won't allow you to gain weight. You just need to drown it in more food.

[Back In Black]

6 hard boiled eggs 2 peanut butter sandwiches and a 16 oz glass of whole milk. 2 tuna fish sandwiches, 16 oz chocolate milk, 8 oz white rice, protein bar, 12oz steak with a cup of baked baked beans another 16 oz glass of chocolate milk. 1 cup of spaghetti and 16 oz glass of whole milk. peanut butter bagle and 16 oz whole milk. then 2 more tuna fish sandwiches and milk before bed

Well, you eat like a child but sometimes it's hard to eat ALOT of food. What are the macro's? Looks like a shitload of fat.

[whitdrago0]

if i was going to be completely ignorant to what you guys told me(thanks btw) and took a cycle. what would i take? so i can look at specific AAS's. like test E, sust etc...

[whitdrago0]

You diet pretty much consists of milk and little sandwiches. That's fine for a 10 year old, but lacking for someone thinking about using steroids .
And if you have a fast metabolism, then your TDEE is much higher than 1,869. That number is calculated for someone with a much slower metabolism than yourself, or you'd be gaining like 2 pounds per week (going to your calorie claims).
There is no such thing as a metabolism that won't allow you to gain weight. You just need to drown it in more food.

i weigh 152 at 8.2 % its calculated. and i go to school with 18 credits and work 40-50 hrs a week. and btw that was what i just had yesterday because of finals... just saying

[whitdrago0]

Well, you eat like a child but sometimes it's hard to eat ALOT of food. What are the macro's? Looks like a shitload of fat.

its really not. i listed them above but they are 33% prot, 45% carbs, and rest fats

[Fllifter]

i weigh 152 at 8.2 % its calculated. and i go to school with 18 credits and work 40-50 hrs a week. and btw that was what i just had yesterday because of finals... just saying

Exactly why your not ready for AAS. Eat more brother !

[Bonaparte]

Really, man?
You'd just gain 10-20 lbs (of mostly water weight), then lose it all in a few months if you don't learn how to eat and train properly first.

[Bonaparte]

i weigh 152 at 8.2 % its calculated. and i go to school with 18 credits and work 40-50 hrs a week. and btw that was what i just had yesterday because of finals... just saying

Then you're too busy to dedicate yourself to a steroid cycle as well. Keep your priorities straight and keep up the studying. Steroids will still be there for you when you graduate.

[Back In Black]

its really not. i listed them above but they are 33% prot, 45% carbs, and rest fats

Are you saying that's 22% of 3500cals as fat? 85g?

There's probably 50g alone in your normal milk.
Over 30g in your eggs

Add your 12oz steak, chocolate milk and PB as well as whatever fats are in the other items and I reckon you are ballpark double that 85g.

Tell me what the grams of the macro's actually are?

[Cuz]

6 hard boiled eggs 2 peanut butter sandwiches and a 16 oz glass of whole milk. 2 tuna fish sandwiches, 16 oz chocolate milk, 8 oz white rice, protein bar, 12oz steak with a cup of baked baked beans another 16 oz glass of chocolate milk. 1 cup of spaghetti and 16 oz glass of whole milk. peanut butter bagle and 16 oz whole milk. then 2 more tuna fish sandwiches and milk before bed

stop with the milk ...geezus. way too much its a wonder you don't have digestion issues. Find a real diet plan and try to stick with it the best you can. HOnestly the only thing I like in your diet is the eggs, peanut butter, and beef/tuna. ..you need to be getting more carbs from brown rice, green veggs, and oats. That's it, fix your diet first, do more research and then train . You will grow past 152 even if its just to 170. Steroids are not your best alternative right now. If you need help with a diet I can point you in the right track.

[whitdrago0]

Then you're too busy to dedicate yourself to a steroid cycle as well. Keep your priorities straight and keep up the studying. Steroids will still be there for you when you graduate.

i have a break coming from school. thats why i am wondering this. i would be able to cook more meals etc. and i do know how to train took 13 at nationals for powerlifting

[whitdrago0]

Are you saying that's 22% of 3500cals as fat? 85g?

There's probably 50g alone in your normal milk.
Over 30g in your eggs

Add your 12oz steak, chocolate milk and PB as well as whatever fats are in the other items and I reckon you are ballpark double that 85g.

Tell me what the grams of the macro's actually are?

thats one day to get the calories i need with finals....

[DontTaseMeBro]

Eating right is the hardest thing to me. I love to train but having a CONSISTENTLY good diet is a f'n drag. It'll take about 2 hours on here to find out that Testosterone only is almost universally suggested by those in the know as a first cycle (read up on why). Then you'll see why HCH, an AI and PCT are critical. All of this is academic without the right diet. Jump on the nutrition section and get some ideas (and run that TDEE calculation again). Bump those calories up and search for the macronutrient combination that gets you gaining.

[Ericjay]

Bro seriously check out the "so you wanna learn how to diet" link posted by bass. You will hopefully live a long life and learning all you can, maturing and graduating so you have more time will put you in a place with a much better chance of long term success with AAS. We want you to get big, but more importantly live a safe and healthy life.

[whitdrago0]

stop with the milk ...geezus. way too much its a wonder you don't have digestion issues. Find a real diet plan and try to stick with it the best you can. HOnestly the only thing I like in your diet is the eggs, peanut butter, and beef/tuna. ..you need to be getting more carbs from brown rice, green veggs, and oats. That's it, fix your diet first, do more research and then train . You will grow past 152 even if its just to 170. Steroids are not your best alternative right now. If you need help with a diet I can point you in the right track.

damn ok not yelling at you. but that is ONE day that i had finals that i needed to get the calories to i resorted to easy food. i know how to eat cook and nutrition. but if you wanna put a link for shit and giggles i will look at it.

[Fllifter]

damn ok not yelling at you. but that is ONE day that i had finals that i needed to get the calories to i resorted to easy food. i know how to eat cook and nutrition. but if you wanna put a link for shit and giggles i will look at it.

Not trying to be a a$$ but at 152 you obviously don't know how to eat. Stop trying to justify taking juice and eat, train hard as hell and eat some more.

[whitdrago0]

Eating right is the hardest thing to me. I love to train but having a CONSISTENTLY good diet is a f'n drag. It'll take about 2 hours on here to find out that Testosterone only is almost universally suggested by those in the know as a first cycle (read up on why). Then you'll see why HCH, an AI and PCT are critical. All of this is academic without the right diet. Jump on the nutrition section and get some ideas (and run that TDEE calculation again). Bump those calories up and search for the macronutrient combination that gets you gaining.

i ran it again and its . 152 * body fat. 152-12.464=139.536*15=2093.04. little off before miss type in but still low to what im eating.....