How much muscle is kept after a steroid cycle?

**djgreen** · 02-17-2015, 11:24 AM

I have got a couple answers on a unrelated post on this topic I am interested in what the best PCT is for a beginner cycle and if done properly how much muscle will be kept if on a proper diet and adjusted workout routine?

**lovbyts** · 02-17-2015, 11:37 AM

During cycle:

6 months after Cycle:

**djgreen** · 02-17-2015, 11:43 AM

wow really ? kind of makes me wonder what's the point if you do it for cosmetic reasons

**musclestack** · 02-17-2015, 11:50 AM

^^He was being sarcastic...kind of.

What you keep after you come off cycle will depend entirely on your diet, training, and genetics, along with how close you were to your genetic potential prior to starting the cycle. As long as you keep training hard and dieting, if you use the protocol of time on + PCT = time off before you start again, you should be able to keep gaining slowly, more and more each cycle. However! If you were to discontinue using AAS for the long run, you will no doubt shrink back down to your body's 'homeostasis', predispositioned by your genetics.

**lovbyts** · 02-17-2015, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by djgreen

wow really ? kind of makes me wonder what's the point if you do it for cosmetic reasons

Well, it is about cosmetics mostly isnt it? Yeah there are other benefits but most of it is vain.

Yes it mostly depends on your genetics, diet, training and how close to your genetic limit you are. You can never maintain MORE than genetically possible without the help of aas but you can reach it quicker. The closer to your genetic limit you are the better aas will work IMO.

**Lovemiami** · 02-17-2015, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Well, it is about cosmetics mostly isnt it? Yeah there are other benefits but most of it is vain.

Yes it mostly depends on your genetics, diet, training and how close to your genetic limit you are. You can never maintain MORE than genetically possible without the help of aas but you can reach it quicker. The closer to your genetic limit you are the better aas will work IMO.

so if when I started my weigh was 150 now Im 175lb (I'm on my third cycle) if I stop using AAS but keep working out can I keep some of it and how can you measure your genetic limit, is there a way to know that ?

**musclestack** · 02-17-2015, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lovemiami

so if when I started my weigh was 150 now Im 175lb (I'm on my third cycle) if I stop using AAS but keep working out can I keep some of it and how can you measure your genetic limit, is there a way to know that ?

How tall are you, and what's your bodyfat % estimate? No offense, but 3 cycles in and only 175 pounds? And unless you are oddly short and/or extremely low body fat, you were not ready to cycle when you started.

On a brighter note, if you are of average height and average body fat (12-16%), then yes, YOU will not only keep your gains (as long as you rebound your natty test), but you stand to gain much more....this, of course, is due to the fact that you are nowhere near your genetic potential to begin with.

**The above does not pertain to you if you are 5 feet tall and 6% body fat, but something tells me you're not.

**lovbyts** · 02-17-2015, 01:19 PM

^^^^ what he said. If you are under 5' 7" then 175 would be a good starting point if you were 12% bf

**Buster Brown** · 02-17-2015, 01:32 PM

In terms of percentages 33% of will be water, 33% fat and 33% muscle. These percentages are NOT written in stone as there are many variables. This is merely to give you an idea.

**chris.baker** · 02-17-2015, 01:35 PM

Has the cycle made you larger than what you could otherwise achieve naturally? If so, there is no way to maintain that off cycle. If not, then you can keep 100% of the muscle.... But, as others have said, you have to keep up a proper diet and training.

Some on here wills say you shouldn't cycle unless you've achieved your max naturally. Personally I don't buy into that theory. The reason being, as pointed out, you'll lose it all after cycle. So hard on your body and kind of pointless (unless you are into competitions or something). Most use it as a boost to get where they want to be. Call it cheating if you want, but it is what it is.

That said, if you are a 300lb couch potato don't expect gear to magically change your body. You need to be in relatively good shape, have a good solid workout plan, and a good diet or all the gear in the world isn't going to help. Again, it'd just be hard on your body with no benefit.

**kelkel** · 02-17-2015, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

In terms of percentages 33% of will be water, 33% fat and 33% muscle. These percentages are NOT written in stone as there are many variables. This is merely to give you an idea.

Breaking out my calculator. Wait a minute please.....

**Lovemiami** · 02-17-2015, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by musclestack

How tall are you, and what's your bodyfat % estimate? No offense, but 3 cycles in and only 175 pounds? And unless you are oddly short and/or extremely low body fat, you were not ready to cycle when you started.

On a brighter note, if you are of average height and average body fat (12-16%), then yes, YOU will not only keep your gains (as long as you rebound your natty test), but you stand to gain much more....this, of course, is due to the fact that you are nowhere near your genetic potential to begin with.

**The above does not pertain to you if you are 5 feet tall and 6% body fat, but something tells me you're not.

yes I know when I started I was in crossfit trying to lose weight but I end up losing too much .

First cycle was anavar one bottle 90caps I started 1 pill the 2 until 4 ,g daily I end up on 147 LB, I'm 5'7 tall BF im not sure prob 12% I think.

second cycle Test C 400mg per week and tren 400mg per week , I got lots of side effects until I found the this Forum, then I reduced my tren to half of it and It all works fine , I got to 165 lb bf 10% then I stop working out for a surgery, I did not work out for six months.

Now I'm doing pharma grade sustanon , anavar. I'm planing to add more tren at the end of the cycle but I'm not sure If I should use it on this cycle or the next, I'm on my 6 week my weight is 172 lb to be exact, BF 16% and still 5'7 jeje.

thanks for the comments please advise on the tren jaja as a Newbie I screw up big time but this forum is a bless since I'm here all works perfect , I have no side effects at all thanks to the info in here.

**Docd187123** · 02-17-2015, 02:11 PM

You keep 3.82934lbs after any steroid cycle.

**Lovemiami** · 02-17-2015, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

You keep 3.82934lbs after any steroid cycle.

Thanks for the info, my goal is to get to 180 and at lease 10% BF, so you can gain a lot and only keep almost 4 pound per cycle???.

By the way here is a tool and a chart to measure your Maximum Muscular Potential

Casey Butt’s Maximum Muscular Potential Calculator

I’ve run a lifter of different heights with a 7″ wrist and 8.75″ ankle through the calculator to show his predicted body weights (at 10% body fat) and lean body mass.

Height Weight at 10% Body Fat Lean Body Mass
5’8″ 189 lbs. 170 lbs.
5’10” 198 lbs. 178 lbs.
6′ 206 lbs. 185 lbs.

**chris.baker** · 02-17-2015, 02:33 PM

Docd, I think maybe you need to break out your sarcasm font.

**Buster Brown** · 02-17-2015, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Breaking out my calculator. Wait a minute please.....

Ooooops, I forgot to divide by pi.

**fitguy** · 02-17-2015, 03:32 PM

So on the long run if someone keep in cycling then stopped for good he will not be able to maintain the size he gained on his aas cycles?

**lovbyts** · 02-17-2015, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by chris.baker

Docd, I think maybe you need to break out your sarcasm font.

LoL. You think so? Some people just dont seem to be able to read the humor in forums.

**chris.baker** · 02-17-2015, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by fitguy

So on the long run if someone keep in cycling then stopped for good he will not be able to maintain the size he gained on his aas cycles?

Um, no.

Lets see if I can reword it.

1: You have your diet down pat, you have your workout down pat, and you are taking a good set of supplements. You work out like crazy and you follow a specific scientific plan. You max out. If you use a cycle to boost beyond that max, then you are artificially increasing what you can otherwise genetically support. So when you go off cycle the most you can hope for is to level back out at your natural max.

2: You have a diet down pat, you have a workout down pat, and you are taking a good set of supplements. You work out like crazy and you follow a specific scientific plan. However, you started very out of shape and/or you are overweight and are looking for a jump start.* You are not yet to your genetic max, but you are struggling to get over a hump. You cycle, continue to work out like crazy and follow a proper diet. You have no reached your genetic max. You follow a proper PCT, continue to train and diet, and you level out at your genetic max, maintaining all the gains from your cycle.

Make sense?

*Don't be lazy! If you are a couch potato, very overweight, etc, do not cycle! Get your diet and training down pat BEFORE ever even considering a cycle!

**fitguy** · 02-17-2015, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by chris.baker

Um, no.

Lets see if I can reword it.

1: You have your diet down pat, you have your workout down pat, and you are taking a good set of supplements. You work out like crazy and you follow a specific scientific plan. You max out. If you use a cycle to boost beyond that max, then you are artificially increasing what you can otherwise genetically support. So when you go off cycle the most you can hope for is to level back out at your natural max.

2: You have a diet down pat, you have a workout down pat, and you are taking a good set of supplements. You work out like crazy and you follow a specific scientific plan. However, you started very out of shape and/or you are overweight and are looking for a jump start.* You are not yet to your genetic max, but you are struggling to get over a hump. You cycle, continue to work out like crazy and follow a proper diet. You have no reached your genetic max. You follow a proper PCT, continue to train and diet, and you level out at your genetic max, maintaining all the gains from your cycle.

Make sense?

*Don't be lazy! If you are a couch potato, very overweight, etc, do not cycle! Get your diet and training down pat BEFORE ever even considering a cycle!

Am in good shape but looking to gain more mass but at the sametime dont wanna loose all my gains eventually

**zempey** · 02-17-2015, 04:47 PM

Diet is a huge factor, it can swing the water to lean mass ratio in your favor while losing bf. There are too many variables to say how much you will keep, we are all different. I am hoping to keep a large amount of what I gained due to a pretty strict diet and training program. I am low 270's now started at high 250's but have lost a few % bf along the way. I will be happy with anything over 265 maintaining it until my summer cut cycle then trading pound for pound going into summer.

I see a lot of guys in the gym using the gear to get them big instead of using the gear as a supplement to get big. Difference being the former usually loses most if not all because they didn't eat to get big, they are just water bags. The later eats and truly builds lean mass, they have a proper routine in and out of the gym, not eating shit and partying all night. If you are serious and do what needs to be done you should be able to keep a good portion of what you gain.

**fitguy** · 02-17-2015, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by zempey

Diet is a huge factor, it can swing the water to lean mass ratio in your favor while losing bf. There are too many variables to say how much you will keep, we are all different. I am hoping to keep a large amount of what I gained due to a pretty strict diet and training program. I am low 270's now started at high 250's but have lost a few % bf along the way. I will be happy with anything over 265 maintaining it until my summer cut cycle then trading pound for pound going into summer.

I see a lot of guys in the gym using the gear to get them big instead of using the gear as a supplement to get big. Difference being the former usually loses most if not all because they didn't eat to get big, they are just water bags. The later eats and truly builds lean mass, they have a proper routine in and out of the gym, not eating shit and partying all night. If you are serious and do what needs to be done you should be able to keep a good portion of what you gain.

Thats what am looking to do,use aas to reach my goals and then maintain with proper nutrition and exercise

**djgreen** · 02-17-2015, 05:59 PM

so can a person take steroids if they have not reached genetic potential and keep their gains or will they shrink to what they was previously once the cycle is over?

**Docd187123** · 02-17-2015, 06:46 PM

Steroids can make some permanent changes in regards to your ultimate potential but it's not a drastic change. It's not something I'd rely on.

**chris.baker** · 02-17-2015, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by djgreen

so can a person take steroids if they have not reached genetic potential and keep their gains or will they shrink to what they was previously once the cycle is over?

You *can* maintain. But it's lots of work and proper diet.

**Buster Brown** · 02-17-2015, 09:36 PM

Unfortunately this question has so many variables that all one can do is follow the guidelines that have discussed and hope for the best. With all the right dieting and training, your genetics will truly determine your results.

**Stapies** · 02-18-2015, 01:30 AM

Def depends on diet and training and where you were at when you started...

Good friend of mine went on a cycle and gained a nice lean 12 lb on test prop and tren . Just as he came off cycle and about half way in to his post cycle he had a holiday for 2 weeks and ended up not being in the gym for about 3 weeks and in the 3 weeks he ate dirty, had alcohol etc... He got on the scale after the holiday and gained about another 5lb from eating like shyt and drinking etc...

He hit the gym again and in 2 weeks of training hard and eating clean lost almost 16lb... So all the hard work lost!!!! Depends on how you come off... Lots of guys diet hard on cycle and go back to old habits after and loose it all....

**fitguy** · 02-18-2015, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by Stapies

Def depends on diet and training and where you were at when you started...

Good friend of mine went on a cycle and gained a nice lean 12 lb on test prop and tren . Just as he came off cycle and about half way in to his post cycle he had a holiday for 2 weeks and ended up not being in the gym for about 3 weeks and in the 3 weeks he ate dirty, had alcohol etc... He got on the scale after the holiday and gained about another 5lb from eating like shyt and drinking etc...

He hit the gym again and in 2 weeks of training hard and eating clean lost almost 16lb... So all the hard work lost!!!! Depends on how you come off... Lots of guys diet hard on cycle and go back to old habits after and loose it all....

For me it wont be that way cause i have a healthy life style anyways but there is no point of taking risks if the gains are going to be temporary

**Mr.BB** · 02-18-2015, 02:07 AM

New tissue needs to be consolidated, this done with nutrition and proper training.

Thats why cutting after a cycle is bad, without nutrients the new tissue will be the first to go.

**Buster Brown** · 02-18-2015, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

New tissue needs to be consolidated, this done with nutrition and proper training.

Thats why cutting after a cycle is bad, without nutrients the new tissue will be the first to go.

Genetics will determine the vast amount of what sticks.

**Motardpdx** · 02-18-2015, 08:46 AM

Hi, this might be insightful...Guys that want to gain 25+lbs per cycle. Cheers!

**fitguy** · 02-18-2015, 11:16 AM

How does it compare in terms of keeping gains when doing short cycles ex 4-6 weeks vs longer ones 10 weeks and more?

**600@50** · 02-18-2015, 11:30 AM

What I have found to work is that you must maintain the food intake to sustain the increased mass. Too many times guys will gain a good 10 lbs while on a cycle only to loose all or most of it afterwards. You must continue your food intake in order to maintain the muscle. If you drop back to your old diet you'll drop back to your old size.
For PL I typically don't train for mass. However on my last cycle I was able to maintain almost all of the strength gains and all of the size gains after I returned to my TRT dose. Some days it feels like I'm force feeding myself but it feels like I finally learned how to eat.