My frist cycle. Opinion

[cavi]

Hi guys im 22, 175 cm, 73/74 kg, 7 % bf, 4 years training ectomorph.

Im on my first cycle.

Diet 4k+ calories.
Training like a monster 3 days a week .

I want to keep up to 14/16 weeks.
I can buy more gear.

My Gear : 20 ampoules of sust 250 (alpha pharma) checked on their site, g2g.
10 ml test e genesis
10 ml test e Alpha Pharma
Oxy Alpha Pharma

Pct: Clomid, and Hcg injection
Some nolva in case of necessity.


I started at 22 september with 750 mg of test-e pinged on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
Kick start oxy 75 mg daily for 3 week.
Started 29 september MONDAY: 250 mg sust
WEDNESDAY: 250 mg test-e ( Genesis)
FRIDAY: 250 mg sust

Im going continue 500 mg sust and 250 test e a week.

Now, 14 october, im 78 kg same bf,22 days after first ping of test e, 16 days after first ping of sust 250, i feel my nipples more sensitive, my legs a lot bigger ( coz of monster training ) my arms a little fuller, a little horner and my chest a little bigger. Not so much strenght.

I want know what are the best way to use my gear, should i continue 250 sust 250 test and 250 sust a week ?
I can get more sust and test.
I think that i can do like this: 10 weeks on sust 500 mg a week + 250 test-e a week. and from week 10 to week 15 / 16 500 mg test e a week.
Or i can get more sust and continue like im doing.
So i have 3 long esters in my body, ( 2 from sust and 1 from test ) and 2 short esters from sust.
I know that it is a lot of test for a first cycle, but i wanted to do like this.

But anywhere, i got some questions:

when I start to get big ?
When i start to feel like a monster in the gym ?
I think that i put on 3 or 4 kilos from 22 september (now 14 october).
How much can i gain if i keep it up at 14 / 16 weeks ?
What is the best way to use my gear right now ? ( Remember that i can get more gear)
How much kilos can i gain totally ? ( Remember it s my first cycle and it is a lot of test )
Coz is my first cycle im going crazy waiting for gains.
I want some opinions of yours.

Sorry for my bad english and thank you.

[4linked]

There's so much wrong with that give me a few minutes to make a list

[lovbyts]

Oh boy who wants to play with him? I dont have time.

[marcus300]

Oh my where should I start.....here goes

Stop taking steroids they are not the answer you someone with your stats, learn how to eat and train correctly first and build a good solid foundation. Your also to young to be shutting down your natural test.

[cavi]

Ok thank you.

[cavi]

Man i know that, but my question is : what is the best way to take that gear.

[lovbyts]

Ok thank you.

Oh that sounds sincere. lol
I know it's not what you want to hear and we are not here just to say no. There are very good reasons for what we say.

Please take the time to read this.
The young and Steroids

Man i know that, but my question is : what is the best way to take that gear.

The best way is to put it in a save or a dark cool place for a few years until you are ready for it so it's not a waste of time, waste of money and such a detriment on your future health.

[cavi]

Man, im not a kid, i know what im doing, and you see 74 kg is low, not at all man, im now 80 kg at 7 % bf and im not so small man, yes im not so big i know, and i know the effects on my future. Im replying, the question was another, u say that just to help me, i know. But if i want do this, who can stop me ? No one. So read again the questions please, and if u want answer me. And im sorry, im not 185, im 175 cm. i wrote wrong. Now the things can change.

[OdinsOtherSon]

Imho, everyone should just move on and not waste anymore time here.

[lovbyts]

Man, im not a kid, i know what im doing, and you see 74 kg is low, not at all man, im now 80 kg at 7 % bf and im not so small man, yes im not so big i know, and i know the effects on my future. Im replying, the question was another, u say that just to help me, i know. But if i want do this, who can stop me ? No one. So read again the questions please, and if u want answer me. And im sorry, im not 185, im 175 cm. i wrote wrong. Now the things can change.

Nope cant stop you and dont have to help you when you come back like so many do with problems you cant figure out.

You were given advice and some good information that everyone should read. You dont want to take the time to read it we dont want to take the time to help you.

Best of luck. bye now

[marcus300]

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
Marcus

[marcus300]

AGE
In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age. There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young and you could end up with symptoms of andropause and HRT for life. Symptoms could be Limp dick, low libido, depression, low energy, low endurance, erection problems and many more but.......are these the types of symptoms you want to have in your 20's?. Believe me its hard to cope with these in your 40's yet alone in your prime of your life.

Around this age your Testosterone levels are the highest they going to be in your life naturally, so use what you have and don't take the risk of damage, I am passionate about this because ive seen it many times with young kids wanting to looking like their heroes and they think the answer is in an injection/tablet.

Taking AAS to young can also cause problems with development, one other main problem is premature sealing of your epiphyeal bone and the consequences mean that you wont grow as big as your genetics could allow you to, there is a test which can be done to see if your growth plates have sealed yet but the average age is around 21yrs old.



TRAINING
You need a few years of hard training under your belt before even considering taking any kind of anabolic support, people who jump on a cycle to soon without having some quality years under their belt usually results in injuries, it takes time to develop your connective tissue, tendons and nervous system to heavy overload training. Slowly getting your own system use to these kinds of extreme's will only help in muscle growth later on when you do decide to start taking AAS.

Build a solid foundation for muscle tissue to grow and maintaining and development will be far greater than without it. Many younger guys will start cycling before they have reached their genetic potential which is crazy when a good solid diet and training program will be far beneficial and productive to muscle building.

Workouts should be mainly focused on basic movements with a priority of over loading the muscle each and ever time you train, increasing your strength and ability to lift in proper form will help with building the foundation for future development


DIET
A lot of younger bodybuilders don't know how to eat. Researching and understanding how your own body responds will help you get to your natural limit, the right food at the right time and a full understanding of proteins,carbs, and fats will only help you succeed in achieving your natural goals. Keeping a diet diary will also help you understand the importance of macro, nutrients, calories and should help you see in which areas you could be going wrong in adding lean muscle tissue.

No matter how much anabolic support you have it will be worthless without proper nutrition, food will help build and maintain your valued muscle weather its natural, cycling or in PCT. Adjusting your food intake and consuming muscle building foods coupled with a solid training program will help you achieve your natural limit and foundation before you start AAS use.

This area is a huge problem with the younger guys and I can't express enough how important diet/food is when first starting out, post and pre training nutrition are very important and understanding how to load and feed the body will help push growth and create a very natural anabolic environment.

[Akar47]

Man way to young and how are you not getting mad gaines eating 4000 kals a day at 75 kg. Your diet must be horrible. Eat lots of meat, greens, and whole weat.

[lovbyts]

He's gone. He did not get the answer he was looking for.

[Joco71]

Well at least he got proper info!! Best lessons are usually learned the hard way unfortunately!! Hopefully he will rethink based on info given.

[Mp859]

Training like a monster!!!...........3 days a week.

[lovbyts]

Well at least he got proper info!! Best lessons are usually learned the hard way unfortunately!! Hopefully he will rethink based on info given.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I doubt he read any of Marcus post.

[Akar47]

Training like a monster!!!...........3 days a week.

LMFAO thats like minimal training that would be a stroll in the park for me

[Akar47]

and wow that much for a first cycle should keep it simple in IMO

[reporich]

Man i know that, but my question is : what is the best way to take that gear.

The best way to take that gear is to not take it!

[Haydenz]

jesus christ. that is one messed up, hectic cycle.

[Honkey_Kong]

I want to know how a 22 year old kid that works out only 3 days a week can maintain 7% bodyfat when he weighs 163lbs and eats 4000+ calories

[Baxter35]

I want to know how a 22 year old kid that works out only 3 days a week can maintain 7% bodyfat when he weighs 163lbs and eats 4000+ calories

Simple answer is he isn't. I feel 100% confident in saying he is drastically underestimating his body fat and overestimating his calories. Just his terminology (training like a monster) tells us he doesn't have anywhere near the knowledge he thinks he does.

[Baxter35]

Just a thought....how exactly does a monster train? I picture a monster storming around the gym haphazardly throwing some weights around and growling at some people. With that said...he most likely is indeed training like a monster.

[gold43]

Well thumbs up too Marcus for taking the time to post that!

[Honkey_Kong]

Simple answer is he isn't. I feel 100% confident in saying he is drastically underestimating his body fat and overestimating his calories. Just his terminology (training like a monster) tells us he doesn't have anywhere near the knowledge he thinks he does.

Either that or he's just trolling the thread.

[Juced_porkchop]

I'd red waiting till age 25 personally.

[nkct]

I just have to say, I have a lot of respect for the administrators on this forum. There are some people who clearly can't be helped, but you guys consistently take time out of your day to try and educate. Some people do learn, don't feel like you are always spinning your wheels. Specifically to Marcus, you told me one year ago to focus on diet and training when I was considering going on cycle. I listened to what you said, put those thoughts on the back-burner, and got to work, naturally. Gained 25 pounds and lost 4 percent of body fat in one year, I was no where even close to my genetic potential. You guys do great work. Thanks for keeping the new guys informed.

[nuttyproffsser]

WOW why would u want to do roids at 22???....dude your body is brand new is all about nutrition eat well train smart and after 10-15 years u can do your first cycle.