4 weeks in, 20lb gain.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 07:34 AM

Im currently on a test e cycle @250mg x2 a week, and the beginning of my fourth week will be monday, I stepped on the scale yesterday and was amazed it read 208 (up from 190) when I started, I will begin to Take an AI Monday as well because I figured I'd just wait till the test actually kicks in to start (unless I saw bad sides prior, but I did not) is this 18lb weight gain unusual in 3.5 weeks or is like 15 lbs of it water, what the ****s up?

**derekkpapa1** · 12-20-2014, 08:17 AM

At that rate you will have put 60lbs of solid muscle by the end of cycle. Would of liked to see before and after pics
Wow

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by derekkpapa1

At that rate you will have put 60lbs of solid muscle by the end of cycle. Would of liked to see before and after pics
Wow

I took before pictures, are you being sarcastic about the 60 lbs of muscle? I sense sarcasm, or are some people very responsive to gear?

**razman** · 12-20-2014, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

I took before pictures, are you being sarcastic about the 60 lbs of muscle? I sense sarcasm, or are some people very responsive to gear?

I think you already know the answer to your question. It's a combination of water retention and muscle gain but if I was a gambling man, which I am

, I'd say it's 80-20 respectively. Expect to keep a solid 10 lbs of weight gain about a month after your PCT.

**derekkpapa1** · 12-20-2014, 10:04 AM

You are running test only correct?
You eating clean?
Probably water weight with some muscle.
The main goal is retention

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by derekkpapa1

You are running test only correct?
You eating clean?
Probably water weight with some muscle.
The main goal is retention

Test only for right now, I might add in tbol at 50mg for the last 5 or 6 weeks. I am eating clean with a cheat meal here and there, nothing to bad.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 11:10 AM

Anyone? Shed some light on why I've gained 20 lbs in just 2 days short of 4 weeks? I've read tons of posts about people not gaining shit that soon and others maybe 6-10, whats up with ME

**Iceberg** · 12-20-2014, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

Anyone? Shed some light on why I've gained 20 lbs in just 2 days short of 4 weeks? I've read tons of posts about people not gaining shit that soon and others maybe 6-10, whats up with ME

I'm up 8lbs in 4weeks on low dose.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Johnz4

I'm up 8lbs in 4weeks on low dose.

I'm up more than double that, what's a low dose to you?

**tectime** · 12-20-2014, 11:40 AM

At 20lbs in 4 weeks it's water retention. Increase your water intake, watch your sodium intake, and get on an ai. Should have been on an ai sooner tes doesn't have to "kick in" to convert to estrogen.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by tectime

At 20lbs in 4 weeks it's water retention. Increase your water intake, watch your sodium intake, and get on an ai. Should have been on an ai sooner tes doesn't have to "kick in" to convert to estrogen.

Can you elaborate on increasing water intake decreases retention? I've always wondered why that is, I just want to know the science behind it.

**clarky.** · 12-20-2014, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

Can you elaborate on increasing water intake decreases retention? I've always wondered why that is, I just want to know the science behind it.

If you hydrate you body it won't retain water so that = no water retention.

**Buster Brown** · 12-20-2014, 12:30 PM

I love this part ......its not what you gain, its what you keep. Whatever you gain on cycle ( this is obviously not carved in stone do to many factors) you will likely end up with 33% water 33% fat and 33% muscle. And.......after pct you will lose some of that muscle. Some guys respond well to pct, others....not so much. Alot of guys early on experience a false sense of true muscle growth and then are dissapointed with the results versus the false expectations.

**RigPig** · 12-20-2014, 12:40 PM

Apparently we have built in instincts that send our body signals to "hold on" to the things were are running out of ie: water. Allegedly (I use that wordbecause I have no studies at my disposal to quote) if your body is getting sufficent amounts of water it will only use what it needs and expel the rest, once you become dehydrated your body goes back into survival mode and attempts to store what it can.
It makes sense when you think about it.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

I love this part ......its not what you gain, its what you keep. Whatever you gain on cycle ( this is obviously not carved in stone do to many factors) you will likely end up with 33% water 33% fat and 33% muscle. And.......after pct you will lose some of that muscle. Some guys respond well to pct, others....not so much. Alot of guys early on experience a false sense of true muscle growth and then are dissapointed with the results versus the false expectations.

Yeah I understand what you keep is most important, but gaining this much this quick was crazy, I'm gonna add In the AI Monday or Tuesday and than report back to let you know how much water I drop

**Buster Brown** · 12-20-2014, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

Yeah I understand what you keep is most important, but gaining this much this quick was crazy, I'm gonna add In the AI Monday or Tuesday and than report back to let you know how much water I drop

Good.......just dont want you to get false expectaions. Some water retention can be a benefit in your lifts but the key word is some. dont go crazy with the AI trying to fix it in a day........ it didnt happen overnight sooooooo, assuming you are running adex start with .25 eod.

**Iceberg** · 12-20-2014, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

I'm up more than double that, what's a low dose to you?

200mg week

**Cody95** · 12-20-2014, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

Anyone? Shed some light on why I've gained 20 lbs in just 2 days short of 4 weeks? I've read tons of posts about people not gaining shit that soon and others maybe 6-10, whats up with ME

Simply water weight, it happens.

**Docd187123** · 12-20-2014, 02:18 PM

You ran supraphysiological amounts of an aromatizing steroid ie testosterone without an AI. You are holding onto a lot of water bc of elevated E2, your glycogen stores are up bc of the test, food in your gut from bulking, and you've gained some fat and some muscle.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

Good.......just dont want you to get false expectaions. Some water retention can be a benefit in your lifts but the key word is some. dont go crazy with the AI trying to fix it in a day........ it didnt happen overnight sooooooo, assuming you are running adex start with .25 eod.

0.25 mg was the dose I was going with. Thanks for the input though buster! Your always giving me some good advice

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

You ran supraphysiological amounts of an aromatizing steroid ie testosterone without an AI. You are holding onto a lot of water bc of elevated E2, your glycogen stores are up bc of the test, food in your gut from bulking, and you've gained some fat and some muscle.

Good explanation, once I add an ai do you think I'll drop 10lbs of this? Or is that much not water? Or is it simply hard to put a number on it

**tectime** · 12-20-2014, 02:30 PM

As someone stated prior it is part of our survival mode instincts. Your tearing muscle fibers so to rebuild damaged fibers your body utilizes more water. If your not consuming enough water your body will attempt to store it. Also as stated earlier don't expect your ai to "dry" you up overnight. Did you pull pre cycle bloods? You should pull bloods again like next week before you start the ai and see where you are at estrogen wise. The tes number is only going to tell you you have good juice Your estrogen numbers will kinda give you an idea about your conversion rate and how much ai to start with then run bloods again in a couple of weeks and adjust from there.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 02:40 PM

Alright thanks for all the help guys.

**Docd187123** · 12-20-2014, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

Good explanation, once I add an ai do you think I'll drop 10lbs of this? Or is that much not water? Or is it simply hard to put a number on it

I had bunk AI one time and when I started up on a good one I dropped around 7lbs of water or so in a few days. How much you'll drop so impossible to say but you will drop a good amount if you haven't been using an AI

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by tectime

As someone stated prior it is part of our survival mode instincts. Your tearing muscle fibers so to rebuild damaged fibers your body utilizes more water. If your not consuming enough water your body will attempt to store it. Also as stated earlier don't expect your ai to "dry" you up overnight. Did you pull pre cycle bloods? You should pull bloods again like next week before you start the ai and see where you are at estrogen wise. The tes number is only going to tell you you have good juice Your estrogen numbers will kinda give you an idea about your conversion rate and how much ai to start with then run bloods again in a couple of weeks and adjust from there.

No pre cycle bloods , where I'm at its really hard to get blood work done just cause you want to.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Docd187123

I had bunk AI one time and when I started up on a good one I dropped around 7lbs of water or so in a few days. How much you'll drop so impossible to say but you will drop a good amount if you haven't been using an AI

Damn that's crazy

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 02:53 PM

Just ordered anastrazole from maxim. 1mg/ml. Will start that whenever it arrives.

**kelkel** · 12-20-2014, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

I love this part ......its not what you gain, its what you keep. Whatever you gain on cycle ( this is obviously not carved in stone do to many factors) you will likely end up with 33% water 33% fat and 33% muscle. And.......after pct you will lose some of that muscle. Some guys respond well to pct, others....not so much. Alot of guys early on experience a false sense of true muscle growth and then are dissapointed with the results versus the false expectations.

It's a vicious cycle (pun intended) for most guys due to various reasons. The main one imho is that guys start cycles and are super motivated, aggressive, train like a nut and otherwise do things mostly correct. Then comes pct where their motivation wanes, they train less, don't eat enough to support their new found muscle and thus lose what they gained.

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

It's a vicious cycle (pun intended) for most guys due to various reasons. The main one imho is that guys start cycles and are super motivated, aggressive, train like a nut and otherwise do things mostly correct. Then comes pct where their motivation wanes, they train less, don't eat enough to support their new found muscle and thus lose what they gained.

I know that everything you do during cycle should be done with the same effort if not more during pct to maximize gains kept.

**zempey** · 12-20-2014, 05:57 PM

I have gained 10lbs of water weight in a weekend of eating like crap and drinking far too much, pissed it out by wed. Do as you have been advised and you will be on the right track.

**nate10** · 12-20-2014, 06:47 PM

Supp, imo you should start the tbol now , not last weeks of cycle, u should have started it in your first 4 weeks to kinda of kickstart ur cycle.
Start running it already and using ur adex .25 ed.
Better doing orlas like tbol,dbol ,drol begging or middle of cycle. So you can get off it and still be running test , then pct and recover better.

**nate10** · 12-20-2014, 06:54 PM

And also being that ur making all kinds of gainz already with just test only, just add like 40-50mg tdol for like 4 weeks. Less harm on liver then going for 6 weeks. Imo

**jolter604** · 12-20-2014, 07:11 PM

tbol,good stuff 60 mg muey bueno....

**chris_columbia** · 12-20-2014, 07:42 PM

I have 2000mg of it, that's enough to run it for 33 days at 60 or 40 days at 50

**jolter604** · 12-20-2014, 07:45 PM

I have only ran it at 60 mg,but it is g2g.I used it for a jump.I will use it again for sure.I was thinking of going to 80 but I am waiting for these results.

BG · 12-20-2014, 09:34 PM

Stick to test only this time, use this cycle to figure out how much of an ai you need to use.

**derekkpapa1** · 12-20-2014, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by chris_columbia

I have 2000mg of it, that's enough to run it for 33 days at 60 or 40 days at 50

Look what wind blew in. Why add let guy run test and enjoy it

**Nobuddy** · 12-21-2014, 03:38 PM

I watched a guy gain 12# in the first 10 days of his Test C/Deca cycle. Another 4# a few days afte that. We parted ways,a couple weeks later, so I don't know how much he kept. But I have seen gains that fast. You're not alone.

Funny part is - while he was blowing up like that, I was running Sus/TrenE so I was not making the fast (what I call) "puffy gains" and, even though I figured he would piss it all out, it kind of bugged me lol.