I've been on T3 for 2 Weeks and haven't lost a single pound. Is this normal?

[theformerfatkid]

I decided to take T3 (Liothyronine Sodium) Tablets 25 mcg, with no AAS because I truly believe T3 doesn't eat through muscle at moderate and low doses. I've never cycled steroids before either, and probably won't anytime soon because I'm only 21.

Anyway, I have been eating only 2100 calories a day (sometimes less), and lifting 3 days a week. I was on a 4 month cutting diet before I decided to use T3 to speed up my progress. I had lost 23 lbs of fat before T3 and two weeks on it and nothing.

My dosing was like this:

Day 1: 12.5mcg (didn't feel any different)
Days 2-3: 25 mcg (had more energy than normal)
Days 4-5: 37.5mcg
Days 6-13: 50mcg (now)

I'm doing some cardio in the mornings as well and really counting my calories.

Could my T3 be fake? Or is my dose too low? The brand is Uni Pharma but obviously I can't tell you where I got it due to forum rules.

I started out at 183.6lbs and I'm now 182.9lbs. What's strange is that my stomach and chest looks more defined and I do look leaner in the mirror but the scale hasn't changed much. Does T3 have a recomposition effect?

The reason I bought T3 in the first place was because I got bloodwork done and my thyroid was on the lower end of the normal range. As you should know, normal range doesn't mean it's normal for a 21 year old male who works out. Just like a 21 year old with test levels below 400 isn't normal, because that's normal for men in their 60s.
The results: TSH, 3rd Generation w/ Reflex to FT4 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L, my levels: 1.43. Not too low but in my opinion low enough to supplement with T3.

Sorry for the long post. Any help would be appreciated.

[NACH3]

Your thyroid produces on avg 25mcg daily... So your dose now should be gtg- that's double what your usually producing normally!

Idk where you got it from... But I know r u I has a good product for your research... Idrather pay the xtra $ knowing I'm getting a quality research chem!

Oh btw - T3 will indeed eat muscle at the 50mcg dose your on especially w/out the addition of test! It doesn't discriminate what it eats/burns(fat muscle it doesn't matter)...

[The Deadlifting Dog]

You are reading your TSH levels in reverse.
Generally a lower TSH is a faster metabolism.
A higher TSH is a sign of possible hypothyroidism. (Slow metabolism)

[SEOINAGE]

Deadlifting dog pointed it out.
Another thread I want to face palm. A tsh reading like that is ideal, and you should be able to have great success with diet and exercise.

[Mr.BB]

The results: TSH, 3rd Generation w/ Reflex to FT4 0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L, my levels: 1.43. Not too low but in my opinion low enough to supplement with T3.

[theformerfatkid]

You are reading your TSH levels in reverse.
Generally a lower TSH is a faster metabolism.
A higher TSH is a sign of possible hypothyroidism. (Slow metabolism)

Deadlifting dog pointed it out.
Another thread I want to face palm. A tsh reading like that is ideal, and you should be able to have great success with diet and exercise.

Thanks for letting me know, and I did have good success until I plateaued for a month even when lowering calories but barely losing fat.

Can anyone answer the other questions like why I wouldn't lose weight on T3?

[SEOINAGE]

Same reason you weren't losing the weight without the t3. Consider dropping it and looking at other reasons to improving or adjusting your protocol.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Could my T3 be fake? Yes, unless you got it from a pharmacy. Or is my dose too low? No, 50mcg is plenty. The brand is Uni Pharma but obviously I can't tell you where I got it due to forum rules.

I started out at 183.6lbs and I'm now 182.9lbs. Sounds like you lost weight. What's strange is that my stomach and chest looks more defined and I do look leaner in the mirror but the scale hasn't changed much. Does T3 have a recomposition effect? No, T3 is not anabolic.

Educate before you medicate.

[RangerDanger830]

"We've always done it that way."

This quote disgusts me. Too often I'll find someone chanting something online and someone will happen by, and trustingly commit their advice to memory. Next thing you know it's all the rave and has become the new standard. No one fact checks it, no one questions it, and some even gasp at the thought of changing their methodology.

Your diet and training aside, I'm here to tell you 50mcg is generally not enough T3. Before you close your mind immediately please understand that I would never condone using outrageous doses, we have enough board members doing that already. Allow me to explain.

You cannot say the human body produces 25mcg of T3 a day, it is so much more complicated than that. You have T4, T3, T2, iodine, reverse T3, T3S, T3AC, and so many other factors like insulin and simple carbs to factor in. Saying the human body produces 25mcg a day is a generalization. The problem with being vague in this instance is that our bodies create a wide range of functional T3. It would be more accurate to say we create between 12.5-75mcg a day, and that's not even accurate.

And this whole 25% of T4 is converted into T3? I know some of these stickies have been around awhile so I'm going to chalk this fallacy up to outdated information but it's more like 60%. Don't worry, I'll post a source. 20% is also converted to reverse T3, which is non-functional T3 that takes up a receptor but doesn't do anything. It's an additional regulatory mechanism. The remaining 20% is split up into acids and sulfates like T3S and T3AC. Your body uses 90-95% of its TSH for T4 and the rest mostly for T3.

I just had a discussion with my father who now practices endocrinology and he stated that he prescribes roughly 1.5mcg/kg of T3. However he did say he might alter that by a few tenths depending on how low their levels are. Well I'm 100kg so that would be 150mcg for me. Now I don't rule out my father being flawed so I researched and found that much more than 25-50mcg of T3 is prescribed usually.

Why could this be? Well just as is with any other drug, not all of the synthetic T3 is taken up by receptors and used effectively. How much is? No one has really cared to study that I could find. What I could find is that this particular range of doses is used for a reason, because it is what has worked to keep patients within normal levels.

So the moral of the story here if you're still following is this:

Your T3 could be underdosed. Your diet could be crap, I forgot to mention simple carbs and insulin indirectly inhibit T3 uptake. You're not taking a large enough dose, 100mcg is perfectly ok. You haven't taken 50+ mcg for a long enough period to see results, especially since you've already lost weight and it is slowing down. And we make more than 25mcg naturally after counting on the iodine molecule loss from the T4.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/1115/p1717.html#sec-4

[RangerDanger830]

This article states 33.33% of T4 is converted into T3. For the sake of not being bias I will share this as it is the lowest conversion ratio I could find from a credible source, still not as low as is claimed on this forum.


https://mcb.berkeley.edu/courses/mcb135e/thyroid.html

[NACH3]

Good write up RangerDanger!

[djgreen]

I tried t3 and hated it didn't loose anymore weight than I could have naturally and felt like shit the whole time hot, heart palpitations, lethargic ... never again

[NACH3]

"We've always done it that way."

This quote disgusts me. Too often I'll find someone chanting something online and someone will happen by, and trustingly commit their advice to memory. Next thing you know it's all the rave and has become the new standard. No one fact checks it, no one questions it, and some even gasp at the thought of changing their methodology.

Your diet and training aside, I'm here to tell you 50mcg is generally not enough T3. Before you close your mind immediately please understand that I would never condone using outrageous doses, we have enough board members doing that already. Allow me to explain.

You cannot say the human body produces 25mcg of T3 a day, it is so much more complicated than that. You have T4, T3, T2, iodine, reverse T3, T3S, T3AC, and so many other factors like insulin and simple carbs to factor in. Saying the human body produces 25mcg a day is a generalization. The problem with being vague in this instance is that our bodies create a wide range of functional T3. It would be more accurate to say we create between 12.5-75mcg a day, and that's not even accurate.

And this whole 25% of T4 is converted into T3? I know some of these stickies have been around awhile so I'm going to chalk this fallacy up to outdated information but it's more like 60%. Don't worry, I'll post a source. 20% is also converted to reverse T3, which is non-functional T3 that takes up a receptor but doesn't do anything. It's an additional regulatory mechanism. The remaining 20% is split up into acids and sulfates like T3S and T3AC. Your body uses 90-95% of its TSH for T4 and the rest mostly for T3.

I just had a discussion with my father who now practices endocrinology and he stated that he prescribes roughly 1.5mcg/kg of T3. However he did say he might alter that by a few tenths depending on how low their levels are. Well I'm 100kg so that would be 150mcg for me. Now I don't rule out my father being flawed so I researched and found that much more than 25-50mcg of T3 is prescribed usually.

Why could this be? Well just as is with any other drug, not all of the synthetic T3 is taken up by receptors and used effectively. How much is? No one has really cared to study that I could find. What I could find is that this particular range of doses is used for a reason, because it is what has worked to keep patients within normal levels.

So the moral of the story here if you're still following is this:

Your T3 could be underdosed. Your diet could be crap, I forgot to mention simple carbs and insulin indirectly inhibit T3 uptake. You're not taking a large enough dose, 100mcg is perfectly ok. You haven't taken 50+ mcg for a long enough period to see results, especially since you've already lost weight and it is slowing down. And we make more than 25mcg naturally after counting on the iodine molecule loss from the T4.

Treatment of Hypothyroidism - American Family Physician

Question... Why do some people take 12.5mcg of T3? I've seen this in several protocols(is it to actually slow the metabolism to a certain degree so one can hold onto more weight say on a bulk)?? why would some people want to approach it this way, and what Are the benefits??

Are these people that are getting prescribed the amounts(1.5mcg/kg) healthy or have weight problems? So are they healthy adults?

I like the way you wrote this up - it's easy for everyone to get... Just asking ?'s that come to mind...

[RangerDanger830]

Usually the people taking the doses above are out of shape. Most people let hypothyroidism go on far too long before realizing it's a biological issue. That means they're usually fairly overweight, I've seen some pretty bad ones. The doses does vary depending on how low their blood work shows their thyroid hormones are. I'm not sure docs take into account body fat or not.

As far as 12.5mcgs, hell, I have no idea. There's a lot of crazy justifications for why people do things. All they're really doing is slowing their metabolism. That means fat gain and many other things such as low energy levels. A lot of it is probably lack of research on their part. Whether you agree with me or not I think we can all agree 12.5 is too low.

[NACH3]

Usually the people taking the doses above are out of shape. Most people let hypothyroidism go on far too long before realizing it's a biological issue. That means they're usually fairly overweight, I've seen some pretty bad ones. The doses does vary depending on how low their blood work shows their thyroid hormones are. I'm not sure docs take into account body fat or not.

As far as 12.5mcgs, hell, I have no idea. There's a lot of crazy justifications for why people do things. All they're really doing is slowing their metabolism. That means fat gain and many other things such as low energy levels. A lot of it is probably lack of research on their part. Whether you agree with me or not I think we can all agree 12.5 is too low.

That's exactly what came to mind... Too low, slowing the metabolism - idk why either

[SEOINAGE]

Haha, my dr thought I would end up around 15-20 mcg t3, I said no way, not my body. He has me at 60 mcg a day now.

[ab037]

Great response ranger! I wanted to add the OP stated he was in a deficit ( cutting) for 4 months. So the bodies natural response to reduced energy supply is a reduction in Thyroid function aka T3, so slows the metabolism down and increases cortisol. The adrenals and thyroid are like a balance beam, when one is up the other is down.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

"We've always done it that way."

This quote disgusts me. Too often I'll find someone chanting something online and someone will happen by, and trustingly commit their advice to memory. Next thing you know it's all the rave and has become the new standard. No one fact checks it, no one questions it, and some even gasp at the thought of changing their methodology.

Your diet and training aside, I'm here to tell you 50mcg is generally not enough T3. Before you close your mind immediately please understand that I would never condone using outrageous doses, we have enough board members doing that already. Allow me to explain.

You cannot say the human body produces 25mcg of T3 a day, it is so much more complicated than that. You have T4, T3, T2, iodine, reverse T3, T3S, T3AC, and so many other factors like insulin and simple carbs to factor in. Saying the human body produces 25mcg a day is a generalization. The problem with being vague in this instance is that our bodies create a wide range of functional T3. It would be more accurate to say we create between 12.5-75mcg a day, and that's not even accurate. Agreed, that is why the prescribed amount of T3 is between 25-75mcg per day.

And this whole 25% of T4 is converted into T3? I know some of these stickies have been around awhile so I'm going to chalk this fallacy up to outdated information but it's more like 60%. Don't worry, I'll post a source. 20% is also converted to reverse T3, which is non-functional T3 that takes up a receptor but doesn't do anything. It's an additional regulatory mechanism. The remaining 20% is split up into acids and sulfates like T3S and T3AC. Your body uses 90-95% of its TSH for T4 and the rest mostly for T3.

I just had a discussion with my father who now practices endocrinology and he stated that he prescribes roughly 1.5mcg/kg of T3. However he did say he might alter that by a few tenths depending on how low their levels are. Well I'm 100kg so that would be 150mcg for me. Now I don't rule out my father being flawed so I researched and found that much more than 25-50mcg of T3 is prescribed usually. I believe you are confusing T3 and T4. The article you quoted makes no reference to T3 but says T4 shoulbe be prescribed 1.7mcg/kg per day. I will link another article that states that T3 is prescribed at 25-75mcg per day. Therefore, your father would be prescribing you twice the maximum amount.

Why could this be? Well just as is with any other drug, not all of the synthetic T3 is taken up by receptors and used effectively. How much is? No one has really cared to study that I could find. What I could find is that this particular range of doses is used for a reason, because it is what has worked to keep patients within normal levels.

So the moral of the story here if you're still following is this:

Your T3 could be underdosed. Your diet could be crap, I forgot to mention simple carbs and insulin indirectly inhibit T3 uptake. You're not taking a large enough dose, 100mcg is perfectly ok. 100mcg would only be OK if you are using AAS IMHO. You haven't taken 50+ mcg for a long enough period to see results, especially since you've already lost weight and it is slowing down. And we make more than 25mcg naturally after counting on the iodine molecule loss from the T4.

Treatment of Hypothyroidism - American Family Physician

Medscape: Medscape Access

Hypothyroidism
Initial: 25 mcg PO qDay; may increase by 25 mcg q1-2Weeks; not to exceed 100 mcg/day

Maintenance: 25-75 mcg PO qDay

May use 10-12.5 mcg T3 in combo with T4 (decrease T4 dose by 50 mcg)


Please note that prescribing T3 drops T4 prescription by the 4:1 or 5:1 ratio implying that T4 converts to T3 at 20-25%.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Haha, my dr thought I would end up around 15-20 mcg t3, I said no way, not my body. He has me at 60 mcg a day now.

Please note hat this falls in line with the 25-75mcg per day that I quoted.
This is well below what RangerDanger would have one believe should be prescribed.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Usually the people taking the doses above are out of shape. Most people let hypothyroidism go on far too long before realizing it's a biological issue. That means they're usually fairly overweight, I've seen some pretty bad ones. The doses does vary depending on how low their blood work shows their thyroid hormones are. I'm not sure docs take into account body fat or not.

As far as 12.5mcgs, hell, I have no idea. There's a lot of crazy justifications for why people do things. All they're really doing is slowing their metabolism. That means fat gain and many other things such as low energy levels. A lot of it is probably lack of research on their part. Whether you agree with me or not I think we can all agree 12.5 is too low.

Adding thyroid meds does not slow one's metabolism.
The added meds supplement their body's production.
It isn't until one gets to supraphysiological levels that the body would stop producing T4 and T3.
That level of prescription is given to people who don't have a thyroid (due to cancer and such). Their TSH gets driven down to basically zero and the body stops producing.

[RangerDanger830]

This is just a dosing protocol. It is simply stating start at 25mcg then continue to go up until desired blood levels are reached. This is very commonly used.

Like I have said before, this is a topic in which most doctors do not agree on one set standard. We can quote articles all day long but I would prefer someone find a study that really focuses on how to determine proper doses. The only problem with that is that we as human with generic variances all create varying amounts of hormones. So this means our "normal range" varies enough to cause a disagreement on how much one specific individual needs or should use.

You also posted as if my post was directed to you deadlift. I've actually never read your opinion on T3, you have one on here somewhere?

[RangerDanger830]

Adding thyroid meds does not slow one's metabolism.
The added meds supplement their body's production.
It isn't until one gets to supraphysiological levels that the body would stop producing T4 and T3.
That level of prescription is given to people who don't have a thyroid (due to cancer and such). Their TSH gets driven down to basically zero and the body stops producing.

This is the point I am trying to make, adding 12.5mcg of T3 my very well shut down production of T3. Not all of us, even within normal ranges, manufacture 12.5mcg a day of T3. We make mostly T4, like I said 95% of our TSH roughly is for T4. Which is then cleaved of an iodine molecule to make T3. If our body is detecting at least 12.5mcg of T3 then it will regulate it's T4 conversion accordingly. If you are on the high end of the normal ranges you are probably fine, but if you are on the low end then the dose very well could slow you down, or just not do anything. Either way, still pointless.

Those high doses are not reserved for those with no thyroid. They are also appropriate for someone who has an insensitivity or conversion issue. All of those could cause little no no functional T3.

[Testie]

Thanks for letting me know, and I did have good success until I plateaued for a month even when lowering calories but barely losing fat.

Can anyone answer the other questions like why I wouldn't lose weight on T3?

In my opinion and experience T3 is not a super fat burning supplement, I have taken it in a deficit and yeah I got leaner but I attribute that more to diet, most of the people I know who compete are more partial to clenbuterol but once again in my opinion and my experience a disciplined diet trumps either drug

[redz]

I’ve never lost weight while taking T3. It helps keep me lean while bulking. I’ve never had muscle wasting at 50mcg either I believe dose would need to be much higher to experience that.

I take T4 at 150mcg year round and I’m 6’2 270lbs…

[teedoff]

Lol 8 year old post some spammer revived.

[Cylon357]

Lol 8 year old post some spammer revived.

You never know... maybe the extra 8 years is what the OP needed to get the T3 to start working