I don't normally post here for cycle advice, but this is my 1st trip down tren lane..

**Bigshotvictoria** · 12-13-2015, 10:58 AM

Hey guys,

It's been quite some time since I've participated in the forum on any regular basis. I'm just hopping on to make sure all my ducks are in a row for my first cycle incorporating tren .

Info:

Male, 32

187lbs (First thing this morning, after my poop)

5ft 11inch

BF 14% by callipers

Cycle Hx: 4 previous cycles, all Test-e (never higher than 500mg/week), the last 3 with moderate orals to kickstart.

Training Hx: Highly athletic since childhood, bodybuilding since 14. No competitions.

TDEE: approx 2970

Diet: 3200 cal/day, 40-40-20% macros. Essentially lean steak, chicken breast, greek yogurt, lentils/beans, eggs, yams, rice, oats, ezekiel bread, almonds, almond milk, whey, and a bastard-ton of fibrous veggies. I will be jumping into the diet forum before starting to see if there are any moves I can make to tighten it up further.

Note: Before anyone points out that I'm far too small for having run 4 previous cycles, you are correct. I suffered a lower back injury February of '13. All my cycles were pre-injury; at the time I was 204lbs at 12%BF. I was in physio and athletic therapy 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 6 months. During that time I became depressed due to the pain, inability to work, etc... During that time I somehow dropped to 156lbs and was surfing around 20%BF -- I was to ashamed to actually measure it. My Wife gathered some friends an family, and we had ourselves a small intervention. Since then, I have brought my diet back to par and have slowly recomp to where I am today. While I am now higher risk for back injury, I have recovered as near 100% as it will ever be. I'm reaching the point where I historically begin having trouble gaining lean mass without adding excess fat. I've strengthened my back and brought my body back to a place where I'm comfortable doing a conservative cycle.

Cycle:

Test E - 200mg/week
Tren E - 200mg/week
anavar - 40mg/day

Anavar kick-start for the 1st 4 weeks, cycle 10 weeks total.

Aromasin , Caber, HCG , Tamox, and Clomid all on hand. Hopping down to Washington State for pre-bloods 1st week of January.

Questions:

While I've always had HCG on hand, I've never used it. Previous cycles have not produced any noticeable testicular atrophy, PCT has always gone smoothly, and post-bloods always turn out well. With that in mind, with the nature of 19-nors, what are your opinions on using it? Should I just start from week 1, or wait and see if I notice atrophy?

I have caber on hand, but I take Vyvanse daily for ADHD. I have developed multiple coping machanisms to deal with it and am comfortable not using Vyvanse if I take caber, but life is much easier with it. In your opinions, would I be okay waiting to take caber and start with only controlling E2, then start caber if signs/symptoms/bloods tell me otherwise? This would be my preferred course of action, I truly believe the less I put in my body the better.

Edit:

Supplements being taken:
EGCG
Fucoxanthin
Creatine Mono
Beta Alanine
L-Citrulline malate
Magnesium Glycinate
Gotu Kola

**NACH3** · 12-13-2015, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Bigshotvictoria

Hey guys,

It's been quite some time since I've participated in the forum on any regular basis. I'm just hopping on to make sure all my ducks are in a row for my first cycle incorporating tren .

Info:

Male, 32

187lbs (First thing this morning, after my poop)

5ft 11inch

BF 14% by callipers

Cycle Hx: 4 previous cycles, all Test-e (never higher than 500mg/week), the last 3 with moderate orals to kickstart.

Training Hx: Highly athletic since childhood, bodybuilding since 14. No competitions.

TDEE: approx 2970

Diet: 3200 cal/day, 40-40-20% macros. Essentially lean steak, chicken breast, greek yogurt, lentils/beans, eggs, yams, rice, oats, ezekiel bread, almonds, almond milk, whey, and a bastard-ton of fibrous veggies. I will be jumping into the diet forum before starting to see if there are any moves I can make to tighten it up further.

Note: Before anyone points out that I'm far too small for having run 4 previous cycles, you are correct. I suffered a lower back injury February of '13. All my cycles were pre-injury; at the time I was 204lbs at 12%BF. I was in physio and athletic therapy 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 6 months. During that time I became depressed due to the pain, inability to work, etc... During that time I somehow dropped to 156lbs and was surfing around 20%BF -- I was to ashamed to actually measure it. My Wife gathered some friends an family, and we had ourselves a small intervention. Since then, I have brought my diet back to par and have slowly recomp to where I am today. While I am now higher risk for back injury, I have recovered as near 100% as it will ever be. I'm reaching the point where I historically begin having trouble gaining lean mass without adding excess fat. I've strengthened my back and brought my body back to a place where I'm comfortable doing a conservative cycle.

Cycle:

Test E - 200mg/week
Tren E - 200mg/week
anavar - 40mg/day

Anavar kick-start for the 1st 4 weeks, cycle 10 weeks total.

Aromasin , Caber, HCG , Tamox, and Clomid all on hand. Hopping down to Washington State for pre-bloods 1st week of January.

Questions:

While I've always had HCG on hand, I've never used it. Previous cycles have not produced any noticeable testicular atrophy, PCT has always gone smoothly, and post-bloods always turn out well. With that in mind, with the nature of 19-nors, what are your opinions on using it? Should I just start from week 1, or wait and see if I notice atrophy?

I have caber on hand, but I take Vyvanse daily for ADHD. I have developed multiple coping machanisms to deal with it and am comfortable not using Vyvanse if I take caber, but life is much easier with it. In your opinions, would I be okay waiting to take caber and start with only controlling E2, then start caber if signs/symptoms/bloods tell me otherwise? This would be my preferred course of action, I truly believe the less I put in my body the better.

HCG also keeps your testes functional while 'on' so many more reasons besides atrophy, it will keep leydig functionality, aid in a faster recover(as your testes are last to respond)... Also, is an LH mimitec!

It would be perfectly fine to try and control E2 first and foremost as it is your first line of defense for any type of future prolactin issues etc.. If in range you'll be gtg with out caber just get mid cycle BW!

Congrats on getting back to where you feel good(back wise) just train smart(so you know)

Very thing else looks good! Pct clomid nolva?

**TheTaxMan** · 12-13-2015, 11:07 AM

Nice post man, detailed and honest it seems!

I think controlling your E2 with an AI will be just fine, just keep your DA(Caber) on hand (ive never ran a DA, but its there in my stash)

HCG they say run it on cycle just to be on the safer side, although you were fine with it in the past it wont do any harm to run it.

Cycle looks good man would be great if you did a log.

**Bigshotvictoria** · 12-13-2015, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by NACH3

HCG also keeps your testes functional while 'on' so many more reasons besides atrophy, it will keep leydig functionality, aid in a faster recover(as your testes are last to respond)... Also, is an LH mimitec!

It would be perfectly fine to try and control E2 first and foremost as it is your first line of defense for any type of future prolactin issues etc.. If in range you'll be gtg with out caber just get mid cycle BW!

Congrats on getting back to where you feel good(back wise) just train smart(so you know)

Very thing else looks good! Pct clomid nolva?

Regarding PCT, yes to both. I have enough to do a full 6 week PCT; previous cycles have been fine with 4 but considering how fast Tren will likely shut me down, I think I'll go the distance with PCT.

Yeah, I'm aware HCG is an LH mimetic. I'd love to get a FSH mimetic as well to keep my sertoli cells functional, but alas I have never known anyone to carry anything of the sort. THAT IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO FISH, I will not accept PM's regarding sources and any sent will be immediately reported to the MODs.

**fxrjuiceman** · 12-13-2015, 11:20 AM

I'd definitely go with Tren ace and test prop.

**Bigshotvictoria** · 12-13-2015, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by fxrjuiceman

I'd definitely go with Tren ace and test prop.

I understand the reasoning; if the Tren sides turn out to be too much I can stop and it will leave my system quickly. I'm also aware that many who find sides unmanageable with ace find E much friendlier. I weighed the cost/benefit ratio, and decided to jump into E. I feel I can keep blood levels more stable with long esters and am keeping the doses low, so (fingers crossed) sides will be tolerable with efficient E2 management.

Also, I tried T-prop and it left me with horrible pip. While I've been assured that it was probably just gear with too much EO, I've been irrationally afraid of it since.

**Darkness** · 12-13-2015, 11:28 AM

Thats a low dose cycle at 200mg/week so the sides wont be too crazy. What I'd recommend is; since its your first time on Tren to maybe run TrenA vs E because if you dont do well on it, its out of the system in 3-4 days vs 2 weeks.

EDIT: Juiceman beat me to it

**NACH3** · 12-13-2015, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bigshotvictoria

Regarding PCT, yes to both. I have enough to do a full 6 week PCT; previous cycles have been fine with 4 but considering how fast Tren will likely shut me down, I think I'll go the distance with PCT.

Yeah, I'm aware HCG is an LH mimetic. I'd love to get a FSH mimetic as well to keep my sertoli cells functional, but alas I have never known anyone to carry anything of the sort. THAT IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO FISH, I will not accept PM's regarding sources and any sent will be immediately reported to the MODs.

Yes I agree.. HCG & HMG would be ideal! But I too, have had a much tougher time even finding HMG - it's out there but it's much easier if you knew someone

Like mentioned I'd even think of running your var for 8-10wks throughout(just use NAC/OR TUDCA) the previous will suffice... I usually run my var on a backload or with prop the whole 8-10wks(I wouldn't go past 10wks tho... Only with far too) - also smart extending your nolva to 6wks... I'm on trt now but I used to use clomid for 4wks cease(100/75/50/50 on your cycle or 75/75/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20/20/10 or 20)...

I had to abort my first tren cycle(which was a blend) and I was glad it was ace at that point... However, I've not ran tren e yet, but if people do better on long esters... Tho id rather run a short ester cycle just in case... I think at your doses you'll be just fine(and your doses are small considering(first tren run gtg) so sides shouldn't be an issue or far less of one)

Keep us updated... When do you plan in starting?

**qscgugcsq** · 12-13-2015, 11:57 AM

I would extend or to 12-14week because you have enanthate .
Or switch to propionate /acetate.

I think 200mg a week of tren is very conservative.

With acetate after 2 weeks you could taper up to 350 and see from.there.

Most tren are weak and 350mg is not that harsh.
Legit tren at 350mg will be easely bearable. But youll feel like 525mg of most others.
I went to 1g of tren and it didnt felt as bad at 700mg of legit tren...

Depends on the raw...
The tren i got from my source is pretty generic.
But the tren of a friend is so much more potent...

Anyway... 200mg is conservative.
And I got ****ed cardio as bad at 150mg than 700mg so better makenit worthwhile.
350mg is the lowest I would go.

**Bigshotvictoria** · 12-13-2015, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Yes I agree.. HCG & HMG would be ideal! But I too, have had a much tougher time even finding HMG - it's out there but it's much easier if you knew someone

Like mentioned I'd even think of running your var for 8-10wks throughout(just use NAC/OR TUDCA) the previous will suffice... I usually run my var on a backload or with prop the whole 8-10wks(I wouldn't go past 10wks tho... Only with far too) - also smart extending your nolva to 6wks... I'm on trt now but I used to use clomid for 4wks cease(100/75/50/50 on your cycle or 75/75/50/50 nolva 40/40/20/20/20/10 or 20)...

I had to abort my first tren cycle(which was a blend) and I was glad it was ace at that point... However, I've not ran tren e yet, but if people do better on long esters... Tho id rather run a short ester cycle just in case... I think at your doses you'll be just fine(and your doses are small considering(first tren run gtg) so sides shouldn't be an issue or far less of one)

Keep us updated... When do you plan in starting?

I'd love to extend the var, but I'm hesitant for two reasons. First, daily amphetamines for ADHD (pharmacokinetics involve the liver), and the Tren; It should really be kicking in around the time I finish the var and I'd really like to know what it is doing to me -- both good and bad-- without muddying the waters too much. I do have enough Var to extend to 8 weeks, so as we get closer I can reappraise the situation and decide then.

I'll be starting some time early new-year. It's a pain to hop across the border for bloods, and I can't make the time until then.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to look this all over.

**TheTaxMan** · 12-13-2015, 12:06 PM

I vote ditch the ADHD meds and run the var for 8 weeks

J/K good luck with the cycle

**Bigshotvictoria** · 12-13-2015, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by TheTaxMan

I vote ditch the ADHD meds and run the var for 8 weeks

J/K good luck with the cycle

Professor: "While attempting to reference an array in a method and return a value to the event....."

Me: "This all makes sens... Wow my chest is really popping toda.... LOOK, IT'S A SQUIRREL!!!!!!!!!"

**NACH3** · 12-13-2015, 01:42 PM

Yeah it all depends what dose and if it will be doing anything more than the Tren ... I say it's dose and individually deoendent... And I get what you mean by taking that and the ADHD Meds together(I used to take adderall for ADHD and at a pretty decent dose) never had problems until I had a car accident then had to ditch the Adderall b/c of seizure(a bundle of nerves in my frontal lobe were unstable but all is good).

Id say if it's RX var? Then 40-50mgs is all youd need(about the equivalent of 80+mgs/day depending on the var)... It will add to your pumps and the Tren alone will melt bf at that dose may dry you out a tad more - but if your gonna run something like a cutter in the future then just do what yiur doing unless you notice a difference then Id run it! I like var but I know how I'll take to it within the first couple wks(if it came from a different place(did you lab max it)?

I like things simple like you - we know the Tren will overpower anything else at the AR(unless using a synergistic oral like a-drol), but your right the var may not be doing MUCH at that point as its binding affinity to AR is much higher than any other inj)... Should be a fun cycle

keep your DA on hand for sure... I've noticed when and if my prolactin starts to rise climaxing becomes more difficult if possible lol - keep that in mind and DAs are very powerful meds... Your messing with how Dopamime effects how you feel positively etc... GL & have fun!

**Bigshotvictoria** · 12-13-2015, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

Yeah it all depends what dose and if it will be doing anything more than the Tren ... I say it's dose and individually deoendent... And I get what you mean by taking that and the ADHD Meds together(I used to take adderall for ADHD and at a pretty decent dose) never had problems until I had a car accident then had to ditch the Adderall b/c of seizure(a bundle of nerves in my frontal lobe were unstable but all is good).

Id say if it's RX var? Then 40-50mgs is all youd need(about the equivalent of 80+mgs/day depending on the var)... It will add to your pumps and the Tren alone will melt bf at that dose may dry you out a tad more - but if your gonna run something like a cutter in the future then just do what yiur doing unless you notice a difference then Id run it! I like var but I know how I'll take to it within the first couple wks(if it came from a different place(did you lab max it)?

I like things simple like you - we know the Tren will overpower anything else at the AR(unless using a synergistic oral like a-drol), but your right the var may not be doing MUCH at that point as its binding affinity to AR is much higher than any other inj)... Should be a fun cycle

keep your DA on hand for sure... I've noticed when and if my prolactin starts to rise climaxing becomes more difficult if possible lol - keep that in mind and DAs are very powerful meds... Your messing with how Dopamime effects how you feel positively etc... GL & have fun!

It's UC. While I know of some reputable pharma sources in the US, crossing borders is completely different beast, turning possession (technically legal here) to trafficking across international borders. No crime to federal crimes in two countries

However, I'm using a highly reputable UC domestic. I'm not labmaxing, but others have. The only complaint these guys have received is crumbly orals which has been resolved. While my batch won't be the same as others that have lab maxed their products, they've had my confidence for years.

I'll keep the Caber, but as I clearly don't want to mix a DA with amphetamines, I'll wait for signs/symptoms/bloods to dictate its use. Thanks bro.