realistic goals?

**T-boner** · 03-19-2016, 11:22 AM

To date I have only done sust at 500 per week for 10 weeks. Everything went perfect and I gained 20 lbs. I would like to do the intermediate bulking cycle that is suggested on this website. It is the following:

Week 1-12 test 750 per wk (I may do a little less)
Week 1-10 Deca 400 per wk
Week 1-5 Dbol 50 per day
Anastozole .25 eod
Pct clomid & Nolvadex 4 weeks

My question is what gains should I expect, assuming I supply my body with the correct diet and workout regimen? Will my gains be that much more than the 20 lbs I have been able to achieve from the Sust only cycle? Btw, I have been able to keep all of those gains so far. If I'm only looking at the possibility of another 5 or 10 lbs above what I get from Sust only, then it just may not be worth the money and trouble of doing the stack. If I do this stack I'd like to see around 40 lbs gains. Is that realistic? If possible I'd like to hear from someone who has done this cycle and what you achieved from it. All are welcome to chime in though.

**RigPig** · 03-19-2016, 11:39 AM

You gained 20lbs from Sust, stick with that. That's huge. As for your purposed cycle. Adding Dbol and Deca without previous experience with either could land you with a load of E2 issues. If you have to add something to your next cycle go with Dbol first, it's a good way to judge what you need for an AI before you start adding 19nors and creating more sides to battle.

**T-boner** · 03-19-2016, 11:50 AM

Yeah. I'm a little timid about it. I have several friends who also gain about 20 lbs from Sust only. I thought that was the standard gain from that. I was thinking that since Deca doesn't aromataze near as much, it would be the safer one to add and still avoid e2 issues. Dbol was my worry but it's only to jump start and see gains early while the sust & Deca kicks in later. Any idea of the gains I would ee?

**TheTaxMan** · 03-19-2016, 12:15 PM

You cant estimate what gains you will have

If you gained that much on test only, then run another test only cycle

See what you gain from it the second time round.

If its 20lbs again, do a 3rd cycle of it, keep going until you stop gaining from test only, then introduce other compounds

That is the most efficient way to use steroids resourcefully

**ScotchGuard02** · 03-21-2016, 11:21 AM

If you kept 20lbs after your cycle, you're doing really good. Test works well for you. I would do what TheTaxMan says, run another Test only cycle.

**73rr** · 03-21-2016, 01:17 PM

X3 on taxman advice.

**T-boner** · 03-22-2016, 12:28 PM

Ok. I'm thinking now I should add slowly. I could just do Sust again maybe a little higher dose. Do you guys think it would be completely irresponsible if I just dropped the deca but still did the dbol for 5 weeks so I got some gains early as well as later when the test kicks in. My 1st cycle went very well but I do remember that it took a few weeks before I could really tell a difference. Will adding dbol make it that much harder to manage hormonal balance?

**73rr** · 03-22-2016, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by T-boner

Ok. I'm thinking now I should add slowly. I could just do Sust again maybe a little higher dose. Do you guys think it would be completely irresponsible if I just dropped the deca but still did the dbol for 5 weeks so I got some gains early as well as later when the test kicks in. My 1st cycle went very well but I do remember that it took a few weeks before I could really tell a difference. Will adding dbol make it that much harder to manage hormonal balance?

I would save it for 3rd cycle. No need to rush into it

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 03-22-2016, 02:07 PM

No one has stated the most obvious thing....
40lbs is totally unrealistic from that cycle unless you consider water and fat as good gains.

Putting on a pound of muscle a week is a TREMENDOUS result.
Hell, putting on half a pound of muscle a week is a great result.

**T-boner** · 03-22-2016, 02:25 PM

Thanks for coming out and saying that. Nobody wants to estimate potential gains and I have no way to know which is why I asked. I thought 20 lbs was standard. I figured a stack would do even better. I guess the 1st cycle is the biggest gain. I don't understand how guys get so huge if they are only gaining 6-10 pounds on a cycle and losing some of it off cycle. Not to mention you can only do 2 cycles per year. If I knew I would only gain 6 lbs on this next cycle I wouldn't even bother with it. I want to see real progress. This is too much time, work, money, and risk, for there not to be a decent upside.

**73rr** · 03-22-2016, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by T-boner

Thanks for coming out and saying that. Nobody wants to estimate potential gains and I have no way to know which is why I asked. I thought 20 lbs was standard. I figured a stack would do even better. I guess the 1st cycle is the biggest gain. I don't understand how guys get so huge if they are only gaining 6-10 pounds on a cycle and losing some of it off cycle. Not to mention you can only do 2 cycles per year. If I knew I would only gain 6 lbs on this next cycle I wouldn't even bother with it. I want to see real progress. This is too much time, work, money, and risk, for there not to be a decent upside.

They do it by proper diet and yes gear. 6-10 lbs of muscle is alot of muscle added on to anyone's frame.

Yes maybe for a first cycle 20 lbs is probably,but holding and keeping it really isnt. Not to mention that 20 lbs was not all muscle as deadlifts has said

**T-boner** · 03-22-2016, 02:42 PM

I kinda think it is all muscle. I look like my body fat % went down as well so could be a little more than 20 of actual muscle. Before I did this I was purposely keeping my weight down so I could compete mma in lower weight classes. Once I decided to gain and took the governor off my eating and added mass gain protein, ect.. it exploded. My next gain certainly will be less. I may have lost a pound since ending. Hard to tell.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 03-22-2016, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by T-boner

I kinda think it is all muscle. I look like my body fat % went down as well so could be a little more than 20 of actual muscle. Before I did this I was purposely keeping my weight down so I could compete mma in lower weight classes. Once I decided to gain and took the governor off my eating and added mass gain protein, ect.. it exploded. My next gain certainly will be less. I may have lost a pound since ending. Hard to tell.

So part of your gain had nothing to do with the cycle.
If you were purposely keeping your weight down and then took the governor off your eating then you easily could've gained 5-10 pounds simply from not dieting anymore.
Thus, your cycle gains were really only 10-15lbs not 20lbs.

By the way...
what is your height, weight, and body fat %?

**T-boner** · 03-22-2016, 02:51 PM

That's probably correct. Still seems like a lot of trouble for just a few pounds. I did feel great the whole time though. Was pretty awesome how I felt on the mat.

**T-boner** · 03-22-2016, 02:56 PM

Height 5'10
Starting weight was around 150- 153 lbs
After cycle weight about 173 lbs
I don't know fat %. I saw some photos with the fat % labeled so you can compare your self and see ruffly where you are at. I compared closely to the 12-15% photo.